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E-mailChurchill was asked to invade 'Nazi' Ireland during Second World War
Published Sunday, March 21, 2010, 8:09 AM
Updated Sunday, March 21, 2010, 11:51 AM
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill was urged to invade Ireland by Northern Ireland Prime Minister Lord Craigavon at the height of the Second World War. Craigavon claimed then Irish leader Eamon De Valera had fallen under Nazi influence and had to be replaced.
According to a Sunday Times report, Craigavon wrote to Churchill in 1940 to ask that Ireland be invaded by using Scottish troops and a military governor installed in Dublin in order to secure the valuable naval bases along the Irish coastline
“To meet the susceptibilities of the south the British forces might best be composed chiefly of Scottish and Welsh divisions,” he wrote in a memorandum to Churchill.
“A military governor should be then be appointed for the whole of Ireland with his HQ in Dublin.”
Craigavon also said distributing propaganda leaflets in Gaelic and English should be used to persuade the Irish that the Celtic regiments were there to defend them.
Churchill did not move at that time but later prepared detailed plans for an invasion of southern Ireland.
Field Marshal Montgomery stated in his memoirs: “I was told to prepare plans for the seizure of Cork and Queenstown in southern Ireland so the harbors could be used as naval bases.”
The previously classified files, are published in a new book, "Britain, Ireland and the Second World War," by the Scottish historian Ian S Wood.
“British forces could have taken control with very little difficulty, but it would have an absolute gift to the IRA who would have launched waves after wave of guerrilla attacks,” he said. “Occupying Eire would have been an extremely messy and costly undertaking.”
Dr. Eamon Phoenix, a political historian at Queen’s University, Belfast, stated that attempting to “camouflage” a British invasion by using Scottish or Welsh troops would have backfired.
“Many of the Black and Tans, the British auxiliaries sent to suppress Irish independence, were Scots and they had an appalling reputation,” he said.
Although Ireland stayed neutral throughout the war, De Valera incensed London by offering his condolences to the German ambassador in Dublin on the death of Hitler.
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Posted by irishcarolinala on Aug 24, 2010, 10:49 PM EDTI think that the effin English ought to apologize....for their barbaric opression of the country of Ireland...England prided it self on the idea that they were the 'cradle of civilization"...but they were demonic
beings who showed much more barbarism than the natives Americans ever showed the English settlers...
England is a country of tyrannical ruffians & I will applaud they're economic demise..
Posted by seanomelbourne on Mar 28, 2010, 06:42 PM EDT
well done wizard I would just like to add that Ireland exported a substantial qty. of dairy/meat and other food products to the UK Considering the ban Britain placed on Irish exports (1936)we helped their war effort.
Posted by wizardofoz on Mar 28, 2010, 12:50 AM EDT
Imuverin: it was not Roosevelt that offered de Valara a ‘united Ireland’ it was in fact Churchill. The sly auld dog wanted nothing to do with any invasion of the Free State. Such a move would have been a total disaster for all concerned. Tho, in truth, he didn’t rule it out completely. Churchill had forty-four thousand plus Free State Irishmen in his armed forces, many of them commissioned officers and NCO’s. No one could predict how these men would respond to such a move. It was Roosevelt himself that wanted to invade and occupy the ‘treaty ports.’ That is why so many American troops were stationed in Northern Ireland, one squeak out of auld Dev and the Americans would have been on his doorstep within the hour. Also, for the record, Irish Nationalists in Belfast stoned the American troops as they marched form the docks to their barracks believing them to be in Northern Ireland in order to invade the Free State and take back the treaty ports. Thankfully commonsense prevailed. Churchill was able to convince Roosevelt the ‘battle of the Atlantic’(1942) was all but over, the treaty ports were no longer required they had good ports in Belfast and even better ports at Derry. Thus much bloodshed in Ireland was avoided. Furthermore, throughout the war the Free State was totally dependent on Briton for ALL her energy needs coal, gas and oil etc. Even though severe rationing was in force throughout the UK, the Free State got its fair quota with no demands attached. The American ambassador at the time, David Gray, argued most forcefully “Give them nothing.” Thousand of Irish men and women travelled to Britain to work in armament factories, the money they sent home to Ireland was a Godsend to the Irish economy. Try reading a little Irish history before you start making ill informed statements on the subject of who offered what and to whom. De Valara was correct not to trust Churchill; such an offer was not within his gift.
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 26, 2010, 07:09 PM EDT
Like I said, I am familiar with Manchester, all of my brothers were Leeds or Arsenal fans, as I am Irish born and reared I KNOW what Manchester you refer to when you mention Manchester. I have never thought that England had the right to annex ANY part of Ireland not the 32 counties or the 6 out of 9 counties they kept out of Ulster. I do not claim that Israel can turn a blind eye to international law, in fact I find it disturbing that they DO turn a blind eye to international law when and IF it suits them. Ireland had no choice but to accept what did occur when they were strong armed and I respect their struggle that they had no choice that while seeking independence they tried every way and every occasion that they did to try to gain independence.
Posted by seanomelbourne on Mar 26, 2010, 06:36 PM EDT
I pointed out Manchester England so as not to confuse with Manchester USA or Canada. An act of parliament hived off the six counties not choice.You should stop repeating Britain's right to annex part of Ireland. And your claim that we can turn a blind eye to Israels flaunting of international law and Ireland must accept the "status quo" beggars belief well shuvonn we are not finding common ground maybe we can discuss another problem another time slan.
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 26, 2010, 01:39 PM EDT
Seanomelbourne: I am aware where manchester is, I hate both of their soccer teams but United more than city. I never said it was okay for Israel to flaunt the rules. But the example you used did not apply to the Irish question. It more reflects the British claim over Northern Ireland, some questioned it at first but for now it is generally accepted worldwide as being part of GB. That has not yet occurred regarding the East Jerusalem land won in the 1967 war. I do not question Israels right to exist but hope for a Palestinian state also as was promised to them prior to the formation of the Jewish state and I a perfectly aware that Israel did not exist prior to 1949 although Jews would argue that. You keep forgetting that by repeating something does not make it so, it is NOT just Irish people alone that will determine if NI stays being British and it is hardly the last outpost, that might be reserved for the Falklands. And NI has only remained so by the 6 of the 9 counties of ulster they choose so they could continue to gerrymander the votes in order to remain part of Britain. While I would love to see a 32 county Ireland, there are many who would risk their lives to see it remain British, and some who have risked their lives to have it go back to being Irish.
Posted by seanomelbourne on Mar 26, 2010, 08:20 AM EDT
To take your argument to a conclusion it's ok for Israel to flaunt the rules but not the Irish,as you stated only 27 members met the rest were detained illegally without charge.
Why do you think we need British permission ? who cares if they banned the first Dail when as I stated previously they took Ireland by force and we have tried peaceful and other means to take back our country.And as you allege Iran and Palestine question Israels right to exist as the british deny our right to exist(1918/1922 and 800 years before). And remember Israel did not exist before 1949. Questioning Israels right to exist is a genuine question considering their record in the treatment of the Palestinian people ,creating Warsaw styled ghettos,herding people from the homes they lived in for generations. The Irish people will determine their future including the last outpost of the British Empire North East Ireland.By the way my grandfather was born in Manchester England.Go n-eiri an bothar leat a bhan uasal.
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 26, 2010, 07:37 AM EDT
I am perfectly aware of modern concepts. Israel is a country in its own right. Only part of the land it claims (some pre and post 1967 war gains) are being questioned NOT the right of the country to exist so its completely different than the concept you used it to demonstrate. Some countries such as Iran and the Palestinians question their right to exist, but Israel seems to operate with their own set of rules and not heed any other countries opinions or UN resolutions.
Irish people alone do not have the power to bring about a United Ireland (or it would have already occurred) the people of Northern Ireland who consider themselves British as well as the NIrish have that power would have to vote in favor of it. And the ROI would have to also vote on that, possibly even a vote in Great Britain also but NOT Irish people alone. It does seem that it suits some to be able to be Irish one minute and British the next to SOME people.
And in order to operate in the world, recognition of your country as one, a parliament etc is certainly a help in getting things achieved or trade with other countries not to even mention what passport you legally carry so regardless of whether YOU think it's unimportant, in the real world recognition of a country IS important. The first Dail meeting only had 27 people present, and operated in secret after it was banned by the British. You attempt to make me out as anti-Irish and nothing could be further from the truth. I was simply pointing out that all Irish people do not have a blind hatred for the British, some served and lost their life fighting for them. And Ireland from the first uprising to the one that achieved Irish freedom and founded the Irish Free State, and the Republic of Ireland has a complicated and painful history that many sacrificed to achieve.
Posted by seanomelbourne on Mar 26, 2010, 01:22 AM EDT
Who cares what other country recognised Dail Eireann in 1919
The Dail set up a ministry including a ministry of defense (Boland was the minister))of course members of the Irish volunteers and other armed groups amalgamated to form the army of the republic under a general command and they received pensions for their service and recognized by all successive Irish governments as ex servicemen.To give it some modern context no government including the USA do not recognize Israeli occupation of the west bank or East Jerusalem or Jerusalem as the capital Telaviv is the internationally recognised capital,again you seem to have different rules when it comes to Ireland.So I make no false claims, Irish people will determine the status of Ireland not Britain.A famous Irish volunteer banner (1914) stretched across Liberty Hall Dublin read "we serve neither king nor Kaiser".Most Irish people still want a united Ireland we only disagree on the method of attaining that goal.Yes the Irish were brutal to their own during the civil war,just as brutal as 1861/1865 in the USA a war in which my great grandfather fought.
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 25, 2010, 10:42 PM EDT
Sean: The IRA was descended from the Irish Volunteers and set up in 1913 and took part in the 1916 Rising so they were NOT set up by the first Dail in 1919 as you falsely claim. Since the IRA were not a political party, were never voted into power as the IRA, never wrote a constitution, therefore they never legally represented Ireland. You can also repeat that they did over and over, that does NOT make it so. And I am not repeating that again, we do not agree on that but you will not change my mind no matter how many times you make that claim it is factually incorrect. Your may feel your Irish relatives may have died for nothing, I do not share that opinion and no matter how many times you repeat it, I do not agree. They fought for what they thought was the right thing and they paid the ultimate price. And the first Dail was never recognized by any country except Russia, and outlawed by the British. It may have been the first step towards Irish freedom, and many Irish people may still want a United Ireland and possibly it will happen in the future, but it is not a reality at the moment. I never judged who was the freedom fighter and who was the terrorist. As for your 1776 reference, Most countries get their start through dubious means and or back room deals with a healthy dose of violence or an occasional coup thrown in for good measure or some general in a war room drawing lines on a map that changes the lives of people but means nothing to him. I do not argue that Britain was brutal in their treatment of the Irish, but many Irish were brutal in their treatment of their own. People who take over countries are not there to win popularity contests, but to take what they can from the land and people, such is the nature of the oppressor.
Posted by seanomelbourne on Mar 25, 2010, 09:39 PM EDT
shuvonn history has proven that the WW1 was futile, Hancock's got it write "the preservation of the status quo".
Britain promised home rule for Ireland"which would have satisfied most Irish people at the time, most Irish volunteers joined the b/army on this promise."The Home Rule for Ireland act"was passed by the London government in 1914 as this was the second passage of the bill through the Commons(and rejected twice by the house of lords)A third passage would automatically be law as the third reading of a bill doe's not need the approval of the upper house.The British officers at the Curragh army barracks mutinied protesting against the bill egged on by Churchill who seditiously told them to mutiny.So all those Irish lives your relations and mine died in vain for nothing. To say The IRA never represented Ireland is disingenuous and factually incorrect THE Irish Republican Army was set up with a mandate from the 1st Dail Eireann which first sat in the Mansion House Dublin 1919.THE 1919 date is significant because local elections were held prior to the first sitting and again Sinn Fein won the day. so administratively Britain lost control of Ireland,the writing was on the wall they were forced to relinquish control,but not before one last act of bast-ardry "the Northern Ireland Act 1921/22.Shuvonn you seem to ignore facts when it suits you and use the propaganda emanating from N.E Ireland or London. I have listened to this "drug" excuse for 30 yrs> IT was leveled against Bobby Sands and others to demonize Sinn Fein. I do concede that some ex members of the IRA/British army and even the US army deal in drugs,lest we forget Air America and Vietnam.But then you ignored my comments about the US war 1776 taking up arms against the legitimate government>Who are you to say who is a freedom fighter or terrorist.
Posted by kickstar on Mar 25, 2010, 03:31 PM EDT
In the 1918 Election all the constituencies outside Ulster returned a Sinn Fein candidate 73 in all they won every seat in what is today's Republic Ireland, [There was a total of 105 Westminster seats in Ireland] but instead of taking their seats at Westminster they boycotted it and instead set up Dail Eireann,
Posted by hancock on Mar 25, 2010, 03:08 PM EDT
Galipoli was fought in WW1, which had nothing to do with Facsism. It had all to do with the Royal families of Europe potecting their empires. The whole inbred bunch caused the lives of millions for money, power, and ego. A more pointless war may never have occurred, and in large part planted the seeds of WW2.
Posted by kickstar on Mar 25, 2010, 03:05 PM EDT
What a Joke, Ireland would have Annihilated any force Britain could have sent in 1940, They would have come up against a country who now could put a huge Army together, To say the least it would have been extremely costly for Britain in Blood, And no Scottish force existed then or now that could have achieved it, I always knew Lord Craigavon was an arsehole but I never knew until now that he also was a lunatic.
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 25, 2010, 11:54 AM EDT
Yes, Britain did take Ireland over by force, as most countries that were colonized were. I do not believe that the people who died in Flanders and elsewhere fighting for Great Britain died in vain. They died believing that Ireland was going to achieve freedom from Great Britain as was promised.. And most countries beginnings came from dubious means, and violence and or *help* from a source that someone classifies as an illegal or terrorist organization. And do not for one second fool yourself that the IRA and or their counterpart Loyalist organizations are not still in operation, the *troubles* kept a lot of people in a job in one way or another. There's a lot of money to be made in drugs and regardless of what they call themselves now, they are not gone away. And I do not believe that Ireland has a stain on its past simply because of the pig headed actions of Dev (YANK) and or the actions of Russell who was dead within a year of ww2 starting. The IRA do not and never did represent Ireland. The 32 county republic is the legitimate right of the Irish people. I am not sure Britain wants NI, as them loyalists are loyal not to the crown but to the half crown, an NI is close to a welfare state and the ROI may not be able to afford it at this point in time either. NI has only remained British by gerrymandering the votes there anyway and just by the skin of its teeth, the power of protestants is waning and the RC's are out breeding them so they say..It's all very complex and only accepting the past as it was not as how we would like to see it makes the future better all round.
Posted by seanomelbourne on Mar 24, 2010, 07:24 PM EDT
shuvonn most of us have relatives who served and died fighting foreign British wars including fighting in British regiments in the American revolution and that was "illegal". Americans took up arms against the British and their American sympathizers.Of course the 1918 election was a UK election but remember Ireland was a colony taken by force (just like The USA)and we won it back at the ballot box and the point of a gun.What good did it do for our relatives to die in Flanders and elsewhere when British troops were murdering people in Ireland and imprisoning our MP'S.It is easy to proscribe the IRA or any organization and as it no longer exists it's a moot point you make,but that doe's not take away the legitimacy of a 32 county republic. All polls taken in Ireland over the last 30 years north and south still show over 70% of Irish people still want a 32 county rep.It is interesting to note that IRA members captured in Ireland were treated as political prisoners up to the sixties facing military courts.As was the case with my own father who spent 1 year in solitary confinement in Arbour Hill military prison and 3years at the Curragh POW camp.
Posted by brianboruma on Mar 24, 2010, 07:04 PM EDT
DeValera was by any measure a fascist so his like of Hitler doesn't surprise me.
Posted by Kilsally on Mar 24, 2010, 07:00 PM EDT
Plastic Paddy - i think you will find that the Irish President, Mary McAleese has just paid a visit to Galipoli to pay her respects to the Irishmen who died there serving in the Britiah Army / Allied Forces in the war against Fascism.
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 24, 2010, 06:47 PM EDT
Plastic Paddy ( a name that ANY Irish born person uses to mock anyone who has never been to Ireland calling themselves Irish) has to resort to insult and judgment simply because they disagree? The 1801 Act of Union means that ANYONE born in Ireland was British until Ireland declared independence. And in fact that Act was ONLY officially repealed in 1962, but anyone born there up until 1949 before Ireland was declared as a Republic could claim British citizenship should they choose to do so. Although the first Irish parliament (DAIL) did occur in 1919 it was NOT recognized by anyone except Russia, and Britain declared that parliament illegal. And France and Iraq are different cases by nature of the fact that they were internationally recognized countries with their own governments, currency and laws in place before they were invaded recognizing them as citizens of that country, that was NOT the case with Ireland. And I find it amusing that YOU feel entitled to judge people who served in the British army as not being worthy of YOUR respect, I am sure they will all be MOST upset about that. Churchill may have declared an unholy war upon Ireland in order to attempt to BULLY them into co-operation, but apparently he did not keep his word about that just like he did not keep his word about Irish independence either. Oh I think you should tell the PSNI that the IRA do not exist anymore, I am sure they will be very pleased to hear it :-)
Posted by plasticpaddy on Mar 24, 2010, 05:09 PM EDT
For this shuvon you are an idiot, was everyone in France during WWII German, are the Iraquis currently American, were the Indians too British, what an idiot "You are guilty of what you accuse others of... I am not a gentleman (I am female ) and your own posts show that you are pointing the finger at others for something that YOU are engaging in yourself. This is not a stain on Ireland's past, every citizen alive in the island of Ireland at the time was in fact a BRITISH citizen"
Posted by plasticpaddy on Mar 24, 2010, 05:07 PM EDT
Also any irishman who served in the British army isnt worthy of respect
Posted by plasticpaddy on Mar 24, 2010, 04:44 PM EDT
Churchhill actually threatened "unholy war" on Ireland in a communication to Dev during WWII, I usually like most of yere articles but this is quite badly researched and missed some well known facts which would have made it more complete, such as the actual threat made by churchill
Posted by plasticpaddy on Mar 24, 2010, 04:42 PM EDT
the IRA don't exist
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 24, 2010, 10:39 AM EDT
The IRA are an illegal organization. Sinn Fein are are political party with an electoral mandate. There may be ties between the two but one does not represent the other. The IRA has never represented Ireland because The election you refer to was held in 1918 and was a BRITISH Election since the Republic or Ireland or the Irish Free state did NOT exist at the time. The popularity of Sinn Fein only emerged because of the execution of the 1916 rising prisoners. And DeVelera although he participated was not executed because he was an American citizen. That government was not recognized by Great Britain, it was outlawed by the British and Sinn Fein in fact elected to the British parliament, NOT an Irish parliament that did not yet exist. Only 27 out of 105 members attended the first meeting of the Dail, and 35 of them were in jail at the time. My grandfather served in the British Army as did three of my great uncles two of whom died in Flanders. And like I said the poppy in Ireland is an uncomfortable complication of the emotionally difficult relationship Ireland and Great Britain have to this day. The war of independence divided families as did people serving in the British Military another contradiction of the conflict between Ireland and Great Britain not a simple thing to figure out or make judgment upon it was a personal thing not Irish policy in any manner. But the black and tans were a rogue organization with little training and free to act as they wanted to without fear of reprisal not to mention good money whose only job was to shore up the power of the RIC in Ireland. Do you really have to resort to name calling when you disagree?
Posted by seanomelbourne on Mar 24, 2010, 08:40 AM EDT
shuvonn you should transcribe fact for feces as most of what you say is horses-hit.The IRA legally represented Ireland when Sinn Fein won the 1918 general election they promised a republic if the got a majority (which they did) over 70%, in fact they received a majority in ALL PROVINCES INCLUDING ULSTER. BY THE WAY I REMEMBER British soldiers home on holidays (in British uniforms) and in no uncertain terms were told to use their civvies whilst in Ireland. There were still bitter memories of British thuggery ("black and tans"and British army by Irish people)still living especially during the 50's and 60's and in my case by my father who died 2007 aged 95.
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 23, 2010, 08:27 PM EDT
In 1966 the Dublin Jewish community arranged the plantation of the *Eamonn DeValera* forest near Nazareth, Israel in recognition of his consistent support of Irish Jews.
DeValera sent assistance after the Belfast Blitz in 1941.
Perhaps Dev saw that the false promises of a United Ireland not kept from the WW1 and so would not then believe it when it was promised by Chamberlain and Churchill for military assistance for WW2. I doubt he was going to invite the British in even if it was going to only supposedly protect the Irish, when it was to use the ports, take what they wanted and never leave the second time...
Not quite the Nazi state that was portrayed.
Posted by killowen on Mar 23, 2010, 07:52 PM EDT
Dev being England's Greatest Spy why in blue blazes would
the Fat Drunk have done such a thing. Dev's trips to America for funds set 33 year old Michael Collins to negotiate terms for Erin - Long Sly One had done his duty for his tribe and UK and connected Saxons. The route to the Holy Land being through England. it was only natural that the blood of his father flowing though veins of a people who reported to a higher authority positioned him magically to execute as he did.
The signing at Hitler's demise had to be done consistant
with the charade. A forest (by now) bearing his name grows
in the Holy Land for Devee-poo.
Posted by hancock on Mar 23, 2010, 07:11 PM EDT
The same Soviets that carved up Poland with the Germans in 1939 when their non-agression pact was in vogue? The Irish were a neutral country, what don't you understand about that. Why won't you answer my questions? Would the English have occupied Ireland? Would it be wise to let the English back in the 26 counties after defeating them and gaining their freedom?
Posted by shuvonn on Mar 23, 2010, 07:08 PM EDT
Realist: When one does stick to the FACTS you twist them. I am not male I am female. FACT.
Eamonn DeValera was an American citizen. FACT.
That does not mean I condone his naivety in putting his signature to that document.In fact people in Ireland at the time were happy when Dev kicked the bucket,many Irish people felt he was responsible for the murder of Michael Collins in order to secure his political future.
The IRA is an illegal organization, always was and most likely always will be. FACT.
Russell did not spend YEARS in Germany during WW2 he was dead within a year of it starting. FACT.
The IRA do not now, nor never have represented the Irish nation, or their people. FACT.
The people who died in the 1916 rising are now viewed differently than they were in the past. FACT.
The people who died fighting for the Allies during WW1 and WW2 were not treated badly when they came home. FACT.
One journalists opinion on Ireland's neutrality means nothing it is still just ONE person's opinion. FACT. Ireland has been accused of aiding BOTH sides in WW2.FACT. ANYONE born on the island of Ireland between the years of 1801 and 1949 were BRITISH CITIZENS.FACT.
I never said that the Irish are all British. FACT.
And I never once said the Brits or the Yanks were to blame for anything. FACT.
The poppy to SOME Irish is an uncomfortable complication of the fact that Irish men fought for the promise of Home Rule in WW1 and that promise was yet another the British did NOT keep. FACT.
President Mary McAleese went a ways to change attitudes by standing beside the British Queen at Ypres and Messines ten years ago to honor the service of Irish people for the Allies.
It was just all a little bit more complicated than you like to make it seem with your leaps of assumption.
Posted by Realist on Mar 23, 2010, 06:12 PM EDT
Well, as amusing and predictable as all the excuses, blame shifting, distancing, and outright attempts to change the subject are below, Let's stick to the facts: "....to refuse condolences would have been an act of unpardonable discourtesy to the German nation", on the death of Adolf Hitler, Eamon De Valera (Prime Minister of the Irish Free State and American, lol), 1945. "....if German forces should land in Ireland, they will land....as friends and liberators of the Irish people", IRA leadership, July 1940.
In 1941, journalist Elizabeth Bowen described Irish neutrality as, and I quote, "....a national childishness, a lack of grasp on the general scheme of the world...." In 1947 the Soviet Union raised objections to Irish membership of the UN on the grounds that Eire had aided the Nazi cause during WWII. In 1988 Irish tv presenter Gay Byrne announced that he would wear a poppy on his show to commemorate those Irish who fell in the World Wars. He backed down in the face of protests and threats. However, the prize goes to shuvonn for his thesis that the Irish are actually all British and that Irish Prime Minister Eamon De Valera is an American ergo it was the Brits' and Yanks' fault - fact. Priceless.
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