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Irish Government confirms pardon for Irish deserters who fought Hitler

Minister for Justice Alan Shatter signals recognition for those who fought in British Army

By
PATRICK COUNIHAN,
IrishCentral Staff Writer
Published Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 7:28 AM
Updated Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 7:28 AM

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16th (Irish) Division prepare to leave Ireland for final training in England in 1915
16th (Irish) Division prepare to leave Ireland for final training in England in 1915
Photo by freewebs.com/ireland1418/aftermath.htm


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The Irish government is to pardon the thousands of soldiers who deserted their own army to fight for the British in the Second World War.

Minister for Justice Alan Shatter has confirmed that the 5,000 troops will be officially pardoned by the State after fighting for the Allies. He has also criticised the war-time government’s attitude towards German Jews.

Campaigners are now hopeful that the Irish parliament will issue an apology to the men as well, many of whom were blacklisted and denied state jobs when they returned home.

Attorney General Maire Whelan is to advise Minister Shatter on how to proceed with the pardon.
The Fine Gael deputy has told the Irish Times that he regards the dishonourable discharge of soldiers who left to fight for the Allies as ‘untenable’.
 
Shatter also acknowledged that the soldiers who died have been honored in Ireland for the past decade for their War efforts despite their lack of state recognition.

He said: “Many who fought in British uniforms during that war returned to Ireland. For too many years, their contribution in preserving European and Irish democracy was ignored.

“Some of those include members of our Defence Forces who left this island during that time to fight for freedom and who were subsequently dishonourably discharged from the Defence Forces.”

Minister Shatter told the Irish Times that is now ‘appropriate’ to review their treatment while also acknowledging that those who served in the Defence Forces throughout that time performed a crucial national duty.

He added: “It is untenable that we commemorate those who died whilst continuing to ignore the manner in which our State treated the living, in the period immediately after World War II, who returned to our State having fought for freedom and democracy.”

A total of 4,983 Irish soldiers deserted from the Defence Forces to join the Allied armies during the Second World War.

Many of those who returned home were refused military pensions and were debarred from a range of State employment on the basis of an Emergency Powers Order passed by the Irish parliament in 1945.

Northern Ireland’s Assembly, including Sinn Fein members, voted on Monday to back the campaign for pardons.

Speaking at the opening of The Shoah in Europe exhibition in Dublin, Shatter also said: “It is of vital importance that this and future generations remember and learn from the horrors of the past.

“In the 1930s practically all visa requests from German Jews were refused by the Irish authorities.

“This position was maintained from 1939 to 1945 and we should no longer be in denial that, in the context of the Holocaust, Irish neutrality was a principle of moral bankruptcy.

“This moral bankruptcy was compounded by the then Irish government who, after the war, only allowed an indefensibly small number who survived the concentration camps to settle permanently in Ireland and also by the visit of President de Valera to then German ambassador Edouard Hempel in 1945 to express his condolences on the death of Hitler.

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47 Comments

15 - 47 | See all comments

seanomelbourne | Jan 29, 2012, 05:38 PM EST
Well Tom you misread my intent or maybe my remarks were not clear enough. All armies are murder machines and as in any war the victors are the vanquished,I'm sure you would agree that the British and other armies committed atrocities no matter what the war. I take your postings seriously and enjoy them,there certianly is no hard feelings.Regards

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seanomelbourne | Jan 28, 2012, 07:42 PM EST
Sean, this discussion was about armies at war. IrelandNorth referred to the British Army in WW ll as the 'British murder machine.' In a subsequent post you seemed to agree with him. I strongly rebutted this. If ever there was a 'just war,' WW2 was it - but terrible things were done by all sides. If we wish to discuss the morality of war in general and notions of right and wrong, we could be here until the cows come home. I tried to confine my commentary to the narrower question of armies in battle. I was not trying to duck or avoid anything. Vietnam was a very personal matter for me and many years passed before I was able to accept the simple truth that the U.S. was wrong, that we had no business at all being there, and, yes, 58,700 young Americans did die for nothing, not to mention the 2.5 million Vietnamese and others who died in that tragic, mistaken war. No hard feelings, I hope.

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Realist | Jan 28, 2012, 05:49 PM EST
GeorgeDillon: The only "fascist vermin" that spring to mind at the mention of Sean Russell are his paymasters and comrades in the Abwehr and Gestapo. You donated money to the memory of that? Shame, shame, shame.

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GeorgeDillon | Jan 28, 2012, 05:15 PM EST
Reality: I am familiar with the Sean Russell monument, indeed I have relatives who live quite close to the Park where it is located. They and I subscribed a little money to help pay the costs of rebuilding it when it was damaged by fascist vermin a few years back. Needless to say, the useless Irish police have never made any effort to catch the culprits.

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seanomelbourne | Jan 28, 2012, 04:53 PM EST
The British were in Iraq and have pulled out as have the Americans.To gloss over the tens of thousands of civliians killed by aerial bobming in Iraq(and Afghanistan)is curious in the least.To assuage the situation by accusing individual soldiers is taking a leave pass. I suppose the carpet bombing of Laos.Cambodia and north vietnam was perpetrated by "individual soldiers",where was the international cort and the rules of war when they occured. Or the US buying arms from the Mullahs to aid a covert war against the democratically elected government of Nicaragua.My point is Tom there are no innocent parties here and defending by omission illegal wartime activities by other nations is less than honest.

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Realist | Jan 28, 2012, 03:56 PM EST
GeorgeDillon: You really do believe that, don't you? There were a number of former Irish soldiers, serving in the British Army, at the liberation of Bergen-Belsen. Would you genuinely stand in front of those same Holocaust survivors and regale them with your petty points of order? With the same bewildering sense of moral detachment that De Valera displayed to the World when he debased himself at the Nazi embassy in Dublin in 1945, I actually think you would. I suggest you go lay a wreath at Sean Russell's statue in Fairview Park, he seems to be your kind of Irishman. Shame, shame, shame.

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GeorgeDillon | Jan 28, 2012, 03:36 PM EST
ancavker: Good post. What the Friends of Deserters cannot deal with is the possibility, a real one for perhaps a year around 1940-41, that Churchill, enraged by the denial of Irish ports to British shipping, would have invaded the 26 Counties. The Friends of Deserters have no answer to the question: Would Irish members of the British Armed Forces have been morally justified in killing Irish soldiers who resisted such an invasion? Irish military doctrine at the time was to resist whoever might invade, be they British or German. Indeed, you can be sure that the deserters would have been of particular interest to British Intelligence in that eventuality, since they could have spelled out the disposition of Irish forces and their likely tactics in facing such an invasion. The Deserters should be left where they have been for six decades and more--on the garbage heap of history.

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GeorgeDillon | Jan 28, 2012, 03:30 PM EST
TomSwinford: "we remain a nation of children". Speak for yourself, you bigoted fool.

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DanOLoingsigh | Jan 28, 2012, 11:40 AM EST
seanomelbourne - please indicate which post you find perplexing? FYI The Irish Army has a detachment in Afghanistan, based at ISAF HQ, Kabul...are they backing the 'killing machine'?

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DanOLoingsigh | Jan 28, 2012, 10:47 AM EST
Sean, I'm afraid you've lost me here. First of all, there are no British troops in Iraq. (nor are there any American combat troops in Iraq.)You say that I am 'selective' about deciding when 'a war machine is murderous or not' then go on to say that YOU believe 'most Armies are murderous war machines' - so I guess it's ok for you to be selective on this question. Let's be real, all armies are trained to kill in battle - that is their purpose. The Irish Army is also trained to kill in battle. Some armies, on top down orders, have engaged in mass murder in contravention of all rules of war, Nazi armies in Poland and Russia, for example - the Serbian army in Bosnia and Croatia. These were war crimes. But to say that the British Army continues to 'murder in Iraq and Afghanistan is outrageously false and to make such a ludicrous statement places you outside of rational discussion. This is not to say that individual soldiers - or even groups of soldiers - cannot commit crimes in war. They can and such incidents occur in all armies and in all wars.

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seanomelbourne | Jan 28, 2012, 01:35 AM EST
With all due respect Tom In my opinion some of Dans posts have an anti-nationalist stance.I have never used the word sassanach but I suppose it's as objectionable as the "Paddy" word.BTW I would like to know what I have "to get over". I am not responsible for anyone elses remarks on this site,I am sure Tom can speak for himself.BTW the british war machine continue to murder in Iraq and Afghanistan but it appears you can be selective and say when a "war machine" is murdereous or not. I believe most Armies are murdereous war machines.The term sassanach is usually used by the scots as a derogatory term. Maybe "getting over it "is just a euphemism for taking your eye off the ball before the game is finished.

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seanomelbourne | Jan 27, 2012, 09:50 PM EST
seanomelbourne, DanO can certainly defend himself with knowledge, reason and just plain good sense. I have regarded you as one in the same general company but at times methinks I am confused. I do not consider any of Dan's post to exhibit a "hatred of Irish nationalism." On the other hand, anti-Brit bias and, often, hatred abounds in these pages, which, to me, is perplexing. We have moved on, the world has moved on. For Christ's sake, get over it. The term "Sasanach," (meaning Saxon), as used by IrelandNorth, is intended as a slur, a hateful term. I grew up with it, so did you, so you know what I mean. When IrelandNorth refers to the British Army in WWll as "the British murder machine," we know that rational discussion is impossible. It was this army with many Irishmen in its ranks, together with the Yanks, the Aussies, and others that preserved Ireland's freedom and its race. In some ways I am sorry to say, we remain a nation of children. IrelandNorth may score points amongst fellow extremists but he contributes zero to intelligent debate. I have said in these pages many times over, it is time to grow up and become, at long last, adults.

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seanomelbourne | Jan 27, 2012, 08:09 PM EST
ancavker, you make a fair observation re. Anglo-French readiness for war but hardly a good argument for Ireland's neutrality. The Brits were absolutely derelict, having embraced something close to total disarmament following the loss of a generation in WW l - the lone voice in the wilderness crying out the alarm: Churchill. The French had the largest army in Europe in 1939. Problem was it was armed and equipped and trained to fight World War One over again. Dev was, admittedly, between a rock and a hard place. In the early years of the war he believed that the Nazis would win and that Hitler would be generous to neutral and friendly Ireland. This was incredibly naive. The Brits, a Germanic people, would have fared far better under the Nazi jackboot. In fairness to Dev, he tried to straddle the fence, while maintaining cozy relations with the Third Reich, he provided valuable intelligence to the Brits, cracked down ruthlessly on the IRA - executing a few - and even agreed secretly to provide the RAF with an emergency aerodrome in Tipperary in the event of an invasion of Britain.

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seanomelbourne | Jan 27, 2012, 06:08 PM EST
As a past member of the defence force (honourably discharged)I find Dans post and his hatred of Irish nationalism perplexing.

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DanOLoingsigh | Jan 27, 2012, 01:53 PM EST
IrelandNorth - As you seem to be a stickler for pedantic accuracy,the proper term for 'the Sasanach tongue' when writing in English is 'English'...

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