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Irish priests think their parishioners are too stupid to understand missals

Priests say new text is more complex

By
CATHY HAYES,
IrishCentral.com Staff Writer
Published Thursday, March 31, 2011, 9:00 AM
Updated Thursday, March 31, 2011, 9:00 AM

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Abbeyleix Church Latin Mass Prayers
Abbeyleix Church Latin Mass Prayers


Read more: Ireland’s Catholic priests unhappy with new translation of missal

The Catholic Church plans to go ahead with plans to introduce a new missal (the text used for Mass) despite protests from the Association of Catholic Priests and the fact that Irish priests seems to think their parishioners too stupid to understand the new text.

The Association feels that the new text is sexist and cumbersome. The text currently used in Ireland dates back to 1975.

A Daily Telegraph blogger David Thompson believes that the associations "whinge" implies that "their parishioners aren't bright enough to grasp the new texts" which are more loyal to the original Latin texts.
Thompson asked whether the priests of Ireland are in any position to "lecture the Church on standards of are miserably low in Ireland".

In the Association's statement they said "While the bishops listened to our concerns, we regret to say that, judging by their response,they failed to take on board what we said.”

The association said that the new texts would have "serious repercussions for parishes”.

Their statement also said that the new texts might be unfair to the female followers of the Church. It said

"We fear that the continued use of sexist language with its use of man, men and brothers as generic terms will alienate some women and men."

The new texts will come into effect in November on the first Sunday of Advent.

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9 Comments

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eiriamach | Apr 01, 2011, 12:08 AM EDT
The new translation generated disappointment and anger in English-speaking regions such as Australia and New Zealand as soon as it was introduced. Dissension is not what RCC needs when parishioners are walking away in disgust at a system which protected felons who made sexual objects of children. The jettisoning of ICEL's 1998 translation without consultation shows an authoritative, strong-arm approach and ignores the simple requirement that the mass be prayer. The catechesis that is planned to mediate the new translation further distances it from prayer and hints at more politicizing of the laity. Can any of this enhance the dignity of the mass? Causing dissension, bullying, blustering against Vatican II, and hurling insults at those who speak candidly about an arcane sexist text proffered as a missal: these behaviors do not bode well for renewal of the church. Compare this 1998 ICEL translation with the same passage quoted below from the 2011 translation, and judge for yourself which is "elevated" and poetic: "God of our ancestors, even in these present days the wonders of your ancient deeds shine forth: your right hand parted the waters and delivered a single people from the slavery of Pharaoh; now through the waters of rebirth you extend to every nation deliverance from the bondage of sin. Grant that all the peoples of the world may become children of Abraham and enter the inheritance promised to Israel" (From the Easter Vigil, as discussed by Deacon Bauerschmidt 2/26/11).

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Gearoid4 | Mar 31, 2011, 07:19 PM EDT
The Mass should be the ultimate conversation between God and His community during worship. In that regard, the language should be elevated and contain rich seams of poetry like the biblical psalms. Since Vatican 2 we have been served up with trite, banal expressions and phrases which do not do justice to this noble aim. Our liturgical content should not be on the level of an informal pub conversation but rather a time of transcendence when Earth meets Heaven. The Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Eastern-rite Churches all share this aim through their wonderful liturgical worship which has not been changed to suit convention. The objections coming from the flared-trousered hippies of the 'Priest's Association of Ireland' demonstrates that some have not escaped from the feminist/marxist school of literary and political criticism of the 1960s.

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GeorgeDillon | Mar 31, 2011, 02:37 PM EDT
I'm a Catholic, but these priests are fools. The fact is that the current Mass is an utter bore, full of banal and arid language.

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eiriamach | Mar 31, 2011, 02:10 PM EDT
More ranting about Vatican II, saying that Vatican II was responsible for priests becoming abusive? Gloriamundi, even the current super-conservative pope has called for "continuity" with the changes wrought by Vatican II. Wake up and smell the politics, place culpability for abuse where it belongs, and stay with the topic, please! Jeffrey Rowthorn quotes V.II's "Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy" in his "Reflections on the revised English translation of the Ordo Missae": “that.... the rites be revised carefully in the light of sound tradition and ... be given new vigor to meet the circumstances and needs of modern times” (para.4); “that sound tradition ... be retained, and yet the way remain open to legitimate progress” (para.23); and “the rites should be distinguished by a noble simplicity; they should be short, clear, and unencumbered by useless repetitions; they should be within the people’s powers of comprehension, and normally should not require much explanation” (para.34). Does anyone find the following passage from the new missal vigorous, sound, short, clear, unencumbered, or within any English speaker's unassisted "powers of comprehension"? "O God ... for what you once bestowed on a single people, freeing them from Pharaoh’s persecution by the power of your right hand now you bring about as the salvation of the nations through the waters of rebirth, grant, we pray, that the whole world may become children of Abraham and inherit the dignity of Israel’s birthright." Clear? Yeah, like mud! It's 'clearly' bad English, clumsy, uninspired and uninspiring, and not a prayer that a churchgoer could grasp as he or she said it.

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Gloriamundi | Mar 31, 2011, 01:27 PM EDT
Me thinks it strange that the priests would make such a stupid comment. Irish men and women were nurtured for centuries by a mass and missal that kept them faithful throughout the persecutions visited upon them by their English overlords. They were certainly not mystified by that mass nor its contents! Why would they not be able to comprehend a "new" translation that merely seeks to bring back the traditional language of the glorious past! As for the abuse of children, I think that was largely the result of the post Vat II liberalization of the discipline of the clergy which held them together in the pursuit of the salvation of souls and not the pursuit of the pleasures of the world!! The modern approach which the current conventional wisdom espouses is an absolute disaster for the Church and for Ireland. Look around you and view the devastation!

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eiriamach | Mar 31, 2011, 12:32 PM EDT
It's a great disappointment that the bishops are imposing the archaic and sexist, ill-translated English of Vox Clara's missal on the people, especially when they have an alternative in the Irish language text. The bishops are continuing a form of church governance that the Ferns Report heavily criticized because it facilitated abuse of children and cover up. It departs radically from the roles of leaders in the early church, of which leading the congregation in prayer was most important. As Fr. Padraig McCarthy has written, "It is sad that the Congregation for Divine Worship (CDW) seems, in our new translation of the Roman Missal in English, to want a form of language in our liturgy which is so far removed from our everyday reality and use. It may seem a relatively superficial matter, but it could indicate a seriously defective theology." And Fr. Lar O'Connor: "It is latinized; It is abstract; it is impersonal; it is archaic; it is full of redundant and superfluous language. It will do nothing to bring a modern congregation to life" (Fr. O'Connor's full letter is available at the ACP site). It's just another setback for renewal in the Irish church.

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snakehips | Mar 31, 2011, 12:31 PM EDT
As usual, the priorities of Catholic priests and the Church in general have nothing to do with the laity of the RC Church and their real world needs. As I used to say to my dearly departed father, The Church is having a party, but no one is attending

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Dublinjas | Mar 31, 2011, 11:36 AM EDT
Irish priests know exactly how stupid their parishioners are, they have been milking them for years.

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LoyalCitizen | Mar 31, 2011, 11:01 AM EDT
The priests are probably right. The so called judicial systems of Ireland have been illegally using opinions in for over a decade. The only reason to use opinions in law is to commit crimes. Irish Judicial Systems are committing crimes against Social Welfare Recipients.

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