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Irish Catholic culture to blame for pedophilia scandal, says New York Times writer

By
KENNETH HAYNES,
IrishCentral.com Staff Writer

Published Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 2:48 PM
Updated Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:10 PM

 

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Irish church

A prominent New York Times columnist says the current Catholic Church sex scandals — and many more in America — were caused by the culture of the Irish Catholic Church, which was transferred to America by Irish clergy.

Ross Douthat was writing in his Times blog in a piece titled "The Tragedy of Irish Catholicism." He says the qualities of Irish Catholicism — "qualities which were once a source of immense vitality — seem to have led to a particularly horrifying outcome."

The pedophilia scandal is an example of "how a culture so intensely clerical, so politically high-handed, and so embarrassed (beyond the requirements of Christian doctrine) by human sexuality could magnify the horror of priestly pedophilia, and expand the pool of victims, by producing Bishops inclined to strong-arm the problem out of public sight instead of dealing with it as Christian leaders should."

He quotes British journalist Damian Thompson of the Daily Telegraph, who recently wrote "I associate the worst abuses of power with the mean-spirited Jansenism of the Irish Church and the Irish clerical diaspora."

Douthat says experts blame Dublin's Cardinal Paul Cullen, who served form 1852 to 1878, and quotes author Charles Morris, who wrote "American Catholic," a history of Catholicism in the United States.

Irish Catholicism was “one of the most ragtag national churches in Europe,” Morris write. "Post-Cullen, it was one of the most unified, rigorous, enthusiastic and militant branches of Catholicism in the world. At the same time, it was one of the most hierarchical and clericalist, with priests and bishops who were invested with nearly-unchallengeable authority, and who became accustomed to extraordinary deference from civil authorities.

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Posted by barragan on Mar 16, 2010, 12:51 PM EDT
Why is it always the Church's fault for this? Most of the pedophiles whether priests or not, are homosexuals. The focus should be on homosexuals not the Vatican and the Church. The Church isn't out there actively recruiting gay pedophiles. But let's be politically correct and not question homosexuality as the root ...problem, instead let's accuse religion and the Church for this.
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Posted by killowen on Feb 15, 2010, 04:39 PM EST
The Irish are responsible for all the world's ills. That planting of those Jesuits in Maynooth by god's gifted British Empire mavens had nothing to do with what befell humanity. The tradition laid down by Mother is being kept alive and Cousin this side of the pond. Overlording all of the above is an entity (whom aware folks know) that has humankind ensnared. Serving their every need.
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Posted by barneyjo on Dec 15, 2009, 11:41 AM EST
I merely make the point that there is an Historical context to this issue which has to be considered. I do not seek to indulge in "Catholic Bashing" as some people describe it. I am a practicing Irish Catholic, I will continue to be a practicing catholic, as are all of my five children (which is a miracle in itself in the present climate). No, I seek to understand, what could have gone so terribly wrong that would allow paedophiles to infiltrate the Church body for their own sordid ends. My late uncle was a member of a Missionary order which provided one of the priests named in the Murphy Report, to the Dublin Arch-Diocese. He was a good genuine, holy man who gave his life totally to his ministry for over seven decades. I am glad he did not live to see the shame this has brought to his brother priests who continue to do good work all over the world, but who also have been dragged into the controversey through no fault of their own. Catholic bashing aside, the question still has to be asked "how was this allowed to happen" because what was done to keep this all quiet was not done in my name, nore in the name of decency or humanity.
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Posted by PaddyDeMucker on Dec 14, 2009, 09:18 PM EST
What has been exposed in the Catholic church in Ireland is appalling. I must however remind people that a small percentage of priests, nuns and brothers are involved. I attended Catholic school until I was 18, having served as an altar boy when younger and had nothing but good experiences. The majority were/are decent caring, people. Some of them weren't good at teaching, but that is the same with lay teachers also. There is a priest who I served mass for as a kid that I have remained in contact with. He is deeply ashamed (on behalf of the church) at what has been revealed. I feel sorry for him and the many other 'good' religious people.
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Posted by 2BorNot2B on Dec 11, 2009, 01:13 PM EST
Blame the Cath of culture of Ireland for paedophilia?? --This is the level to which this insane "BLAME ONLY THE CATH CHURCH!!" has sunk ---barneyjoe says: >>Bear in mind that all these things have been done in the name of "Mother Church" in our name<< -- Really?? Where exactly do you have anything other than supposition, speculation or hear-say to claim such stupidity? -- Do you have video/audio, or sworn written evidence from any credible visual witness or source to say that, as this despicable conduct by a small minority of men is taking place, the perpetrator seduces or rapes the victim claiming to do it "in the name of the Church"? And has the Church itself publicly justified the conduct of any of the perpetrators?--- This is rampant idiocy! Yes, there may have been plain stupid or overly zealous bishops who rather than think straight sought to contain scandal, protect the Church and deal with the derelicts within the clerical structure, very unwisely, granted. But to imply there was malice and forethought in every case goes beyond the bounds of reason. --- I would be loath to excuse either any of these vile men who cannot even be called Christians, nor those who tried to shield -not the very sinners who were undermining the Church from the inside, but the whole structure- however, to blanket-condemn the whole organization for the sins of a few (and there are statistics to compare their numbers, as a part of a universal pandemic of paedophilia that affects every organization) reeks of virulent hatred rather than desire to know and accept the truth. -- ENOUGH of blatant Cath bashing by columnists, and anti-Catholic bloggers on these boards! -- When, and if you decide to investigate and blame other religious and state organizations in the same way you do the CC singly, you do nothing more than propitiate, vent, blather and rant. Furthermore, you provoke the rage of those of us who actually know history and the good that the Church has done for some 2000 years.
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Posted by gobdawpaddy on Dec 11, 2009, 02:21 AM EST
It is a characteristic of the Irish to 'turn a blind eye'. They collectively suffer from what I refer to as 'snowdrops and daffodil syndrome'. They tell themselves that if the pretend something didn't happen, it will go away. They did it with peed priests, brothers, nuns etc, 'ah shur fadder Murphy wud never do tings like dat', their police force wouldn't listen to complaints etc. etc. It continues today when blatant crooks like Charlie Haughey are exposed, Paddy continues to see the good side, 'ah shur he was a dacint man all de same'. When it was revealed that Bertie was accepting payments/digouts from various people the Irish dismissed it 'ah shur he was having martil diffikultees'. Of course he was, by his own admission he was involved with his wife's best friend. The Irish are for the most part a 'simple' race' and their tolerance of behavior such as I have highligthed underscores this reality.
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Posted by sully1167 on Dec 10, 2009, 07:31 PM EST
That is the most ignorant thought. What does pedophelia have to do with ones nationality, or religion? There have been Ministers and Rabbis who have been arrested for child molesting. There was a Catholic priest in NYC who was arrested for touching underage boys years ago who was of Italian descent. Shame on you Ross Douthat.
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Posted by barneyjo on Dec 09, 2009, 07:56 PM EST
For anyone who is really interested in this subject, you might want to google "Jannesinsm" a 16th century theological view that came out of France/Belgium and was exported to Ireland. Also suggest you read around the life and times of 19th Century Irish Cardinal Paul Cullen who is generally credited with taking a Rag-tag peripheral European Church and shaping it into the Evangalising structure it became. If you put the two together and..... well I would rather people draw their own conclusions. I will say that for most people, it will make disturbing reading!!
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Posted by SumIrishBlood on Dec 09, 2009, 10:14 AM EST
Hello, I being a victim and SURVIVING of a Catholic Priest of Irish Heritage in NYC have something to say of this. I think in all Christian Denominations there is a complete cluelessness as to the nature of human sexuality. I do think the Irish Clergy have been way too restrictive in the normal sexual developing of the human bein0g..i.e. no teenage dancing or contraception for the married poor. I do not think the "greatest cases" of sex abuse are in Ireland or American Irish Communities as compared to Latin America, Poland, or Asia. These countries may not have the western tradition of investigative journalism. WE REALLY DO NOT KNOW HOW BAD IT IS IN THESE OTHER CATHOLIC NATIONS. They should all be taking a look at what we have been finding these past 60 years and start uncovering some shrouds of secrecy. I am sure the pedophile problem is as bad in Africa, Phillipinnes, Australia, England, Spain, Austria, Mexico and Canada. It is true that ARchbishops once given such a high respectable rank can become tyrannical with unchecked power , if you don't politically get on board. How this is not power mongering in the face of outside Denominational religous resistance over showing the World how to use your power as a High Christian Leader by respecting your "sheep" is one question I still have.
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Posted by Watereskhill on Dec 07, 2009, 09:58 PM EST
Other 'Catholic' countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy, Mexico and South America do not have this detour in theology that gripped Ireland--Jansenism. A premise that Life is penance, purgatorial and pilgrimage with any semblance of joy erased or suspect. I worked on a cruiseship world-wide. Saw many places. Other Catholic cultures. It was a wake-up call. The Virgin Mary was honoured in a procession. So too was the human body in this world. Spirituality and sex were not at logger-heads. A more healthy Catholicism than I had known growing up in Ireland.
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Posted by TerenceScovill on Dec 07, 2009, 01:10 PM EST
I think we are putting the cart before the horse.Its not Irish Catholic culture.Its the values of the entertainment media movies ,music etc that have invaded and put under siege rural Catholic Ireland.As a Protestant Scotch Presbyterean friend of mine once said about the rise of non-political murders in Ireland,rapes etc. Right away he shot out"America is exporting its sh-t". Little Ireland has lost the Gaelic Now its suppossed to loose its religion to please who?
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Posted by mollymcgee on Dec 07, 2009, 10:35 AM EST
More BS! Actions without consequences are the root of this problem and many others!~
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Posted by SeanRyan25x on Dec 06, 2009, 04:33 PM EST
Quoting Brit jounalists too Douthat? You anti-Irish scum!
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Posted by Felicia on Dec 04, 2009, 11:14 PM EST
The unbiased NY Times, that's a laugh. So I consider the source first before I put any credit to what is written. How would this writer defend all those teachers who commit acts of pedophilia and in worse numbers than those of the Catholic Church? Sorry that's the Irish Catholic Church not to be confused with the Italian or Polish or etc. Catholic Church.
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Posted by newyorklass on Dec 04, 2009, 10:59 AM EST
I couldn't even read this to the end -- blaming Irish Catholic culture and carrying over to the US. How can you blame someone's heritage with the fact that these priests are PEDOPHILES!!! It's wrong, those same religious taught us that, they preached it practically every Sunday!!!!!! When will people and those organizations (including the Catholic church) take that responsibility???? I'm so tired of reasons given for this and that ..... TAKE RESPONSIBILITY DAMN IT AND TAKE CARE OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED AND GET RID OF THE PERPETRATORS ONCE AND FOR ALL.
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Posted by rickirvine on Dec 03, 2009, 01:56 AM EST
I agree somewhat with 'trishreilly's" assessment, however, being a retired military soldier, currently working in Iraq and previously working in Afghanistan for almost 3 years, please do not compare the military to pedophilia. I do not agree with the New York Times Writer, that claims the abuse expereienced in the United States is a result of the Irish Catholic Clergy. Pedophilia is a sickness and yes, it is definitly a sickness of power and control. But, let's not limit the US, or fact that matter, Irish soil as being the only countries to have victims of this awful crime. It is a global disease. My heart goes out to all those victimized by this terror.
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Posted by abbaetienne on Dec 02, 2009, 11:00 PM EST
I dunno!.....I suspect that Catholic seminary formation might have had a fair bit to do with the problem. I read in another blog where one Australian bishop stated that they came out of seminary as 25 year old teenagers!Then there's the idea, never retracted by the Roman Catholic Church, that the celibate is holier than the married......a distorted view I'm sure.
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Posted by kickstar on Dec 02, 2009, 10:59 PM EST
When I think of all the Picture money [movies] and sweet money [candy] I put on their lousy child abusing plates and all the Lenten money we sent in to the Black and white babies and all that money went to keep your mans the bishops illegitimate child in America and him using that money like his own savings box it truly makes me sick and when I think of the contortions I used to put my mouth in to avoid putting my teeth into the baby Jesus at communion it makes me wince, And all the hours of my beautiful childhood wasted in their incense smokey so called devotions on beautiful sunny evenings, I hope they burn and are shoveling coal for that big fire they used to tell us about forever and never get that one drop of water on their black lying tongues.
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Posted by trishreilly on Dec 02, 2009, 09:54 PM EST
JohnnyMac said it well. I agree!! As to scarab23, I have heard about the Christian Brothers. I'm sorry you were one of their victims. My friend left Ireland rather than be taught by them. I think those freaks were initially given power from uneducated parents to do what was needed to educate their children, not knowing how they would abuse that power. And they didn't just abuse kids sexually, they beat the crap out of them for fun. Look at any group that hold positions of power over other civilians; police, politicians, teachers, management, etc. The Catholic church is not alone!
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Posted by trishreilly on Dec 02, 2009, 09:40 PM EST
Interesting theory, but let's not blame all these creepy acts against children on the Irish. These men of the Catholic church are educated and know right from wrong. They are in a position of power and these acts are about power and the abuse of that power, not sex. The fact that the "church" pushed it all under the rug to save face is not unusual. The military does the same thing.
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Posted by vincentruane on Dec 02, 2009, 08:29 PM EST
AMERICA'S LONGEST DARK NIGHT! In answer to plasticpaddy! To see how many young male and female human beings are molested before being killed by the evil word abortion, just go to www.wickedshepherds.com Now these photos of horrible human horror are not for the weak of heart, but an answer from a woman on this web site who knew that every human being has a right to his or her life is worth quoting here. This woman was holding a photograph of a person, a human being who had been killed in horrible ways by the cowardly act of abortion.A person, a human being walking by stopped when seeing the photograph and said to the woman holding the photograph of human horror, "Doesn't it bother you that you would frighten a child if they see that photograph." and the woman's reply was "Doesn't it bother you that the photograph is of a child!" If you support abortion you support a system of evil that has killed over 800 million human beings in the last 50 years or more. So why is the New York Times collaborating in this evil cover up? The bright lights, the silk suits, the friendly smiling newscaster and politicians, the billions of dollars in bribes and career support, the false applauses, the newspapers carrying the sophist words and phrases can effectively hide mass evil, but not for ever. This abortion holocaust is America's and New York's longest dark night. And the New York Times is partners in one of the biggest omission crimes in America's history.
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Posted by fegus123 on Dec 02, 2009, 05:03 PM EST
I grew up on Irish Catholic Brooklyn New York, and knew no one affected by this scandal. If anything, we all made fun of the priest's and nun's obsession with sex. I cannot believe the Time's wrote such a thing. I read it daily, and must protest. It is blaming the victim, just as in rape.
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Posted by JohnnyMac on Dec 02, 2009, 04:49 PM EST
This fellow Ross Douthat is a jackass. There are bad apples in every career field known. There are policemen that steal, there are firemen that set fires, there are doctors that act inappropriately, and there are priests - rabbis - ministers of all faiths that have been guilty of pedophilia. For this jackass Douthat to try and place the perversion of pedophilia on the Irish or the Irish Catholic Church is pure trash. This Douthat fellow is mentally warped, apparently one who enjoys stirring the pot.
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Posted by divilment on Dec 02, 2009, 11:41 AM EST
Speaking as somebody who was born, baptised educated and confirmed as a catholic in Ireland, it is time people stopped sticking their heads in the sand over clerical sex abuse. The Catholic culture has been a cancer in Ireland and while the church has had a positive influence in many areas, that can in no way compensate for that damage they have caused.
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Posted by scarab23 on Dec 02, 2009, 10:37 AM EST
And in Newfoundland, too, at the hands of the Irish Christian Brothers, and priests. The virulent form of catholicism (is there any other kind) made victims of untold number of orphans and other children in their care. I know, because I was one. Abuse at the hands of the Irish Christian Brothers pushed me into a negotiation with a hostile and malevolent god to not kill me and put me in hell for all eternity. Imagine, if you will, for just a moment, what it is like for an 11 year old to have this kind of horror occupying his/her mind for the majority of his/her waking moments. How can there possibly be a rescuing god, or any other type of god? Absurd hocus pocus made up by those who wish to control our behavior. That church is rotten to the core, top (yes, even that foolish nazi youth man in the red hat and shoes and dress) to the bottom.
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Posted by Red on Dec 02, 2009, 10:31 AM EST
Who gives a "you know what" about a N.Y. writer has to say about any thing! Red
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Posted by PatrickLee on Dec 02, 2009, 10:30 AM EST
It's too bad that the N.Y. Times still has credence in some peoples eyes. Anything the NY Times print must be taken with more that a grain of salt. There is plenty of blame to go around, which is counter-productive and a diversion. Pedophilia, regardless of it being in the church or schools, needs to be weeded out and stopped.
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Posted by yellowstockings on Dec 02, 2009, 09:56 AM EST
I think there is much hard truth to this story, and those of you who are so quick to object, need to do a bit of reflecting. Is Irish Catholicism to blame for the entirety of the pedophilia in American churches? Of course not, and I don't think that was the author's intent. He does shine a light on the relationship between the Irish Church and the culture it brought across the Atlantic on the back of its many immigrants.
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Posted by chesapeake on Dec 02, 2009, 09:55 AM EST
Huh?!?!
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Posted by athlonejackie on Dec 02, 2009, 09:37 AM EST
Wow, quoting the New York Times! One of the nation's leadng Catholic Bashing journals. How low can you go?


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