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Dublin Archbishop says Irish Catholic Church is on the brink of collapse

Martin says radical changes within the church are the only way it will survive


Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin
Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin
Photo by REUTERS

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Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin says the Irish Catholic Church must resign itself to being a minority culture and believes it is on the brink of collapse.
 
In a strikingly frank admission, he said he had failed to lead the church in the changes it needed to survive.  Ireland's second most senior cleric said the Catholic Church would have to relinquish control of grade schools and commented that sacraments had become social events.

He also hit out at his peers. Martin said there was a lack of proper thought and debate about the church and how to deal with its difficulties.

Speaking at Cambridge University in Britain, he told his audience that there would be no priests ordained this year in the Dublin Archdiocese. He also revealed that the congregation at Sunday Mass was only two percent of the Catholic population.

He quoted comments made by the Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Sean O'Malley, who is currently conducting a review of the church in Ireland on behalf of the Vatican. He had said the Irish church had only five to 10 years before it would fall.

Martin said, "My belief is that in many ways the brink has already been reached. The Catholic Church in Ireland will inevitably become more a minority culture. The challenge is to ensure it is not an irrelevant minority culture."

He added that for decades the church policy had merely been "keeping the show on the road.” He commented that the church's crisis pre-dated the child sex abuse scandals. He said the church’s policy lacked thought as to where it was going, and that the abuse scandal had simply damaged it further.

He insisted that only a radical change would ensure the Catholic Church’s survival. "Despite all my efforts I am failing in my attempts to lead such change. Change management may not be my talent," said Martin.

He also criticized the Irish government, saying they were slow to offer any alternatives to the church's patronage of schools. He said, "I believe that there is need for a national forum to debate the issue."

Martin quoted Pope Benedict's speech during the beatification of Cardinal Newman when he addressed his fellow clerics. Benedict referred to Newman as one of the "keen intellects and prolific pens addressing the pressing subjects of the day.”  Martin said the current church was "very lacking" in similar intellects.

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68 Comments

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google IC for cath church on brink of collapse - Ireland.
It cant happen fast enough to a bunch of kiddie twiddlers/ Why did the hierarchy hide it - everyone seems fo miss the point that its notjust about reputation , money etc Its because the hierarchy was also sex starved, etc
@portia777 - Oh I do hope so; and you know what, its ok if we disagree about its source!!
For milennia, the Irish have witnessed a continuous development of religious ritual and spirituality in their native language and culture. Bridget was a goddess until Christianity demoted her--but refused to canonize her--to sainthood, yet rituals survive from ages past in which Irish welcome her into their homes on Imbolc. None the less, you insist that the coming of Christianity to Ireland marks a watershed moment that invalidates every understanding of God and every act of worship that preceded Christianity. The ancient Romans themselves never managed to conquer Ireland, so the moderns of the Roman Catholic Church do it for them! Will you wake up next November, when you see the pews emptying out still more as the priest introduces the New Roman Missal Nicene Creed and instructs all to pray to Christ, who "For us *men* and for our salvation ... came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became *man*." Not only do you imprint male gender on the Creator, but you make male gender essential to the doctrines of the Incarnation and Redemption, and you imprint male gender on the priesthood itself--something that Christ never did. So a little talk of the ancient goddesses throws you guys into a panic, and you must assert the ultra-male hegemony of your sexist per-version of Christianity. BTW: my church translates the Nicene Creed "For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Virgin Mary and became truly human," and thus, unlike your translation, it is accurate to Christian theology and excludes none of the faithful.
@jacersagain Well said, I couldn't agree more. Maybe they were on acid instead of playdoh or druidic priests.
eiriamach and Portia777 both refer to pre-Christ sources to prop up what I see as untenable arguments. There is a place on the island of Patmos which has a Christian monastery dedicated to St. John, he, the disciple at the foot of Christ’s cross to whom Christ uttered the immensely significant immortal words “Mother behold your son. John, behold your mother” (we all know what He meant by that). Anyone can visit the monastery. It is built over the cave in which John was imprisoned and in which he received the “Revelations”. The rock ceiling of the cave is very low and has clefts in it forming an unusual formation, found nowhere else on our planet – a single rock yet appearing as split into three. Post-Christ historical tradition holds that this unique rock formation is that from which John received the Revelations, hearing God’s voice emanating from the clefts in this ceiling and that it symbolises the true Holy Trinity of the new world of Christ, the Son of God – the One Whom Christ referred to as His “Father in Heaven” – not his “Mother in Heaven”. I think eiriamach’s “Playdoh” sources and Portia’s druidic dead poets’ society are far removed from the new Reality of Christ. The Irish Church, which belongs to Christ, is, despite Archbishop Martin’s panicky words, in no more danger of collapse than that ceiling in the Patmos cave.
I'm back one last time. The other well known attempt by the same male to take over female creative power is Zeus' giving birth to Athena from his own head after he swallowed his first wife, the Ancient Metis (goddess of wise counsel) when she was pregnant. What's that all about? The male brain as super-creative womb of ideas? The Father god securing his power by devouring the Mother goddess? The Father God ensuring the obedience of his "daughter" by giving birth to her? Athena became goddess of wisdom, technology, arts, crafts (spinning, weaving, needlework), agriculture, navigation, and the strategies-- not the force or bloodshed-- of war. She was devoted to humanity and gave humans more gifts than Prometheus gave. She was Zeus' favorite child despite the fact that she gave him plenty of headaches even long after he had his head split open by an axe to give birth to her. Ah, but I'm getting carried away with this idea-thread ever since Portia777 got me thinking about what men did to demote the ancient goddesses like Bridget.... Archbishop Martin should re-read the "Iliad" and pay attention to Athena's warning Zeus not to get drunk with power but to respect the Natural course of events. Then he should read Psalm 40, "For the Leader," and rethink everything he thinks he knows.
Portia777, your story of the triple goddesses is fascinating! The idea of men usurping the divine female creative power is ancient, and Christianity was not the first to do it. The Greeks had the story of Semele and Zeus. Out of jealousy of Semele's love affair with Zeus, Hera arranged for Semele's downfall. She convinced the young woman to persuade Zeus to show himself to her in his full glory as the chief god of Mt. Olympus. Zeus did not want to do this because he knew that the vision of his glorious divinity would kill Semele, who was only a human being. But Semele, obeying Hera, made him swear on the River Styx that he would grant her one wish, and she got the wish to see Zeus as fully divine. As Semele was burning to death with this glorious vision, Zeus performed a Ceasarian-section surgery to rescue her fetus, which he sewed up into his own thigh until it was fully formed. This child became Dionysus, who was immortal because he was born of his father-god rather than his human mother. The current pro-life campaign in the US states against women's reproductive choices is only another in a long line of attempts by men to control the creative power of the female and to usurp its divine origins.
Portia777, Ben XVI thinks that everyone who disagrees with church teachings is a "relativist," and the RCC gatekeepers who post on IC throw words like "relativism" around quite freely. I'm no relativist; I do believe that there exist beyond each one of us objective moral standards or "law," and western civilization has called this "natural law" or "moral law." The ancient Greek dramatist Sophocles put words something like these into the mouth of his heroine, Antigone, as she defended her disobedience in the court of the king: "Your edict, king, was strong, but all your strength is weakness itself against the immortal, unrecorded laws of the gods. They are not merely now, but eternal ... beyond man utterly." They are not written in civil law books or canon law books, but on our hearts and minds, and we must obey them before any human law. Your own words are in accord with natural law: "Do no harm to anyone." Christianity teaches the same as Sophocles: When the leaders of the synagogue would not allow the apostles to preach, they replied, "We must obey God rather than men" (Acts v. 29). That's what I believe, and churchmen who try to tell me that I have no respect for "authority" because I challenge RCC "law" have been duped by their own desperate need for an absolute but merely human (and exclusively male) authority. I don't think that you and I disagree on anything of importance, do we?
barneyjo. The Universal LOVE FORCE is within you and not separate from you.
Liamkeyes. Sorry to disappoint you but the Holy trinity is the Triple Goddess - Virgin, Crone and Mother as illustrated at Bru Na Boinne. Patrick the Patriarch simply changed that to all male - Father son and holy ghost. You have to hand it to these boys in Rome- they were cunning. Shame they murdered so many Irish people to convert us to their god.All life comes through womb man, so why was S/he eliminated. S/he is complete. S/he is fe male. S/he is womb man. She completes males. Sad to see the males deprived of her.
eiriamach. I hope you do not believe that rubbish? Natural Law is the law of the Universe, not man made law. A man in a dress hearing the voice of god is in no mental state to make laws for anyone else. There is only ONE LAW- do no harm to anyone . it does not matter who sits on some throne and tries to tell us about some Peter fella because that is all a big LIE as all will soon learn. it amazes me that that men in dresses lecture women on sex and fertility, when they do not have wombs, will never create life or experience child birth. Women had natural birth control before the patriarchs took control. In truth the pro lifers are clueless- the soul contract is between the mother and baby- no one else.it is up to the mother to discuss with the unborn baby what they both wish to do. no one elses business in the eyes of the Law of the Universe.The pro lifers only want christian souls to outnumber Muslim and Buddhist souls.
On the comment dealing with BIRTH CONTROL and the earth's number of people at almost seven billion, what will the RCC administration say when the earth cannot produce enoff food as well as the cost go up where many cannot buy the food that is needed which will resulting in violance? Humans from day one to the present day demand food. Hello.
Gearoid4, I looked through Humanae Vitae and found not even one reference to scripture in support of its argument against birth control. This encyclical argues on the basis of 'natural law' together with church 'authority.' It is time, however, for us and the Vatican to recognize the fact that Nature, capital 'N,' changes, so that we are now dealing with global warming, extended lifespans, girls entering puberty as young as age seven, and other physical changes that affect our lives. PP VI writes in HV, "It is in fact indisputable, as Our predecessors have many times declared, that Christ, when He communicated His divine power to Peter and the other Apostles ... constituted them as the authentic guardians and interpreters of the whole moral law, not only, that is, of the law of the Gospel but also of the natural law. For the natural law, too, declares the will of God, and its faithful observance is necessary for men's eternal salvation." The pope over-reached. Today's apostles need to attend not only to the Holy Spirit's guidance, but also to the arrangements that Nature now makes for us. Today we must often 'plan' our own deaths by writing living wills so that we will not be kept alive in a vegetative state simply because medical science can keep us alive past the point that we can exercise any human functions. In such cases, we decide between life and death; so also do women who choose to abort a fetus. Moral and natural law are based on eternal principles, but they deal with today's natural world, and those who are deaf either to the Spirit or to the exigencies of that world should not presume to apply natural law to the decisions of those who can still hear.
I'd be on Gearoid4's side and not a bit on casualMBA's or eiriamach's side in this fantastic discussion.




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