Demolition the last resort for Ireland’s 19,000 houses in ghost estates

Anyone who watched the BBC TV’s recent hair-raising interview with an American finance trader (to see it, go to wimp(dot)com, scroll all the way down to “See Older Entries”, click on it and then on September 2011, then click on “Sep 28 - A trader's take on the current economic situation” Pay close attention to what he says; after you see this interview, you will be a lot wiser. Ireland, Britain, Europe, Asia, Sth America, Australia and Africa and yes, even the USA are all controlled by companies of the likes of Goodman-Sachs which numbers amongst its clients Governments all around our wee globe. So think about it... if a peoples’ national government is taking advice on investments from capitalist companies like Goldman Sachs, who is really controlling those governments and their peoples’ assets? The difference between Governments, their peoples and the ones “In-the-know” is foolery – irresponsibility, if you like. IMO, few people are talented enough to stand up and take responsibility for their actions. Goldman Sachs and their friends are the real ghoulish people who created the Irish Ghost Estates. (Jeepers... pardon me! I just realised Hallowe’en is coming; no double-entendre intended!)

@ sirpeter... Hmm... There’s a lot of truth in what you says but I think you’re speaking of people in two different streams - the “Haves” and “Have-nots” - or the “In-the-Know” and the “Kept-out-of -the Know” kinds. The “In-the-know” kind is what you refer to when you describe them as those who run, own and decide everything. The real idiots who are not really Idiots, as you say. These are the ones who say “What they don’t know won’t hurt them”... They have displayed total ignorance of, or a “Who cares?” attitude to, ordinary people (their “fools”). But they have shown utter contempt for the people that they call fools because they’ve led them to believe that they could have all they wanted with loans of excessive amounts that they knew (or should have known) that they could not pay back out of their disposable incomes. And hurt them very much financially, familial-ly and, worse, emotionally. So who, really, were the fools? The suckers who took out mortgages that they couldn’t afford to repay? I think these are the “fools” that gobdawpaddy refers to. And he is right on that account, imo. Or are they the ones “In-the-know” who are murderous, financial psychopaths who don’t know or care about anyone’s life ruination?

@gobdawpaddy.Stop for a second.I think you live in the USA.The war cost to the American taxpayer in the last 10 years is 3.7 Trillion dollars.That's HUGE money.That's YOUR money that is spent to protect the interests of the rich.That money is gone.That's the price Americans pay.12% of the American population are living below the poverty line.At least 12% of the population of 300 million if they had any brains would say Ah!! Gobdawpaddy,you underestimate the stupidity that permeates American life too.I'll tell you one thing.We are smart enough in Ireland not to be sending our kids to die in Iraq for oil. We just buy it after ye die to get it.Do you want me to go on some more about the stupidity that permeates American life??.It's amazing how stupid we all are in our own way.

Jacers.I agree with your analytical study.What you have said has come to pass and chances are you will be right with your future prediction too.People will find "other" enjoyable ways of passing the time lol.I remember saying to myself where the hell are all these people going to come from to buy these houses and if they were living in houses they will also be leaving a house.The way it is now might look stupid because to the ordinary persons reasoning economics and politicians ect,always appear to be out of their mind.They also seem to make these obvious mistakes and appear to be thick stupid in what they do.BUT!! When you sit back with your cup of tea and think about it.These so called idiots RUN everything, OWN everything and DECIDE everything.They really are not idiots.Plenty of what they do seems to be irrational from the ordinary persons point of view.But the rich and powerful know EXACTLY what they are doing.They have plans and we can't see where they are going unless we stand back and watch the bigger picture.These are big internal and big foreign investors.The politicians represent the ordinary people,but big business pull their strings.My problem with gobdawpaddy is he equates what appears to be stupid moves by the government whose strings are been pulled by the USA & Europe and big business WITH the ordinary Irish people.This is total nonsense.It's an insult to the Irish people AND it's an insult to the ordinary people ALL over the world.Because all over the world money talks.We are ONLY told what big business want to tell us and when it's really bad news it's usually to late.Like every country in the West and Europe "Ireland has the best democracy money can buy"

(...more) Ireland’s older people are living longer, meaning that old people will live longer in their homes. That means the existing stock of houses will not be freed up fast enough to allow young people to buy from it. A few things have happened because of, and after the Celtic Tiger boom years... (a) Many of the 25yr-old Snow Babies of 1980 or so started making babies themselves, falsely confident of a bright future. (b) Many refugees from African war-torn countries came to prospering Ireland, granted refugee status and are now producing Irish-born children. (c) Many people from Eastern EU countries who came to Ireland to fill the gap in shortage of workers during the boom years have also made their homes here and are producing children and (d) Ireland has had two more big freeze winters, producing lots more Snow Babies. Where are we going to house them all when they as they grow and after they become adults? Does mentioning Ghost Houses send a chill up Irish shoulders? We need to keep these houses - and refurbish them for the present crop of ‘noughties’-born Irish children. Any one wondering where the next job is going to come should look to training in house refurbishment. There will be plenty of work ahead. NAMA should wake up to this fact and demolish any idea of further demolishing the Irish economy. As history has shown, when the building industry is booming, everything booms. We must plan to make best use of what we have, even if they are Irish ghost villages.

(...more) My projections for 67,000 houses were based on a study I did about 1995/96 of population numbers and trends in Ireland. Between 1978 and 1982, Ireland had three ‘big freeze’ winters. People like me couldn’t travel to work because the public transport system couldn’t operate and people couldn’t watch TV or go to the pubs or cinemas because electricity was knocked out. No heating in the homes etc. So what did people do instead? They went to bed on those cold nights ... and made babies (... so did I). In fact thousands and thousands of them were born nine months later and became known as the Snow Babies. Fast forward 25 or so years and these snow babies were, between 2002 and 2006 young adults looking for homes of their own. THAT’S where I got my projected demand for 67,000 new homes needed. In fact, no one even noticed that so many babies conceived in Ireland during those cold winters were going to need school places 5 yrs later and schools ended up bursting at the seams. That should have been a big cue back then – houses were going to be needed for them for when they became adults 20 yrs later – but nobody really noticed except me, who confidently came up with a projection of up to 67,000 houses needed over 3-4 years in the mid-noughties as the snow babies became house hunters. So why am I now saying that we should not rush demolish the ghost estates? Put the kettle back on for another cuppa... I’ll be right back. (more...)

gobdawpaddy is right about the stupidity permeating Irish life. During the ‘nineties’, before the Celtic Tiger boom, I did an analytical study for personal business purposes as to how many houses might be needed to be built during the ‘noughties’. I was astonished to see my figures project up to 67,000 annually. Even experts I spoke with at the time were astonished and unbelieving of my projections because the greatest number of houses ever built in Ireland in any one year before that time was ‘only’ 49,000 and no one could see it was ever going to be much more than that. The Celtic Tiger years saw much more than my projected 67,000 homes built – it reached 88,000 in one year. Subtract 88,000 from 67,000 and you’ll see near enough where the figure of 18,638 completed surplus houses were built, not to mention the 17,000 uncompleted ghost houses. They were never needed. The Planners in County Councils all over Ireland grossly mismanaged planning applications, failing to shout out to greedy developers “Sure, there’s not enough people around to put into the houses you want to build!” Nobody stood back to analyse what was happening though everyone could see it (except the greedy Estate Agents and developers). I think that's what gobdawpaddy means by the stupidity of those years. But wait a minute... I don’t think it’s right to knock down the ghost estates yet... why? Put the kettle on the boil for cuppa tea while I type out why. (More...)

Ah Peter, you underestimate the stupidity that permeates Irish life. I have spent enough time there over three decades, enjoying myself absolutely. I have a great affinity for Irish people and their 'laisse faire' approach to most aspects of life (twill be dere when tis dere, not a bodder). I would however offer an assessment (based on vast experience), that they demonstrate the social skills of banaibhs and the business acumen of goats.

Whoever thinks they will be knocked down is stupid.

Insanity. There are thousands of persons who would retire to Ireland (well heeled) and would gladly finish these houses ....and PAY TAXES. Demolishing them is pure stupidity. Put them on public bid in the American Market and see how fast they go.

They will knock them down and build them somewhere else and claim things are back to normal. Irish Politicians are tools.

Ah yes, those ghost estates. I remember during the latter part of the previous administration in Ireland, waiting for one of those incompetent mutants to suggest 'lets knock em and build em up again n put all de lads back te work'. Such was the level of stupidity in that government, such a suggestion would not have surprised me.