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Certificate of Irishness receives mixed reaction

Plan to offer Irish identity card to Diaspora

FRANK BLACK,

IrishCentral.com Staff Writer

Published Monday, October 25, 2010, 5:22 AM

Updated Monday, October 25, 2010, 10:27 AM

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Read more - Irish heritage certificate available by year end

The proposed 'certificate of Irishness,' which was debated at the Global Irish Economic Forum at Farmleigh last September and is expected to be trialed for a year received a mixed international reaction, according to correspondence seen by the Sunday Tribune newspaper .

Up to 70 million people across the globe might be eligible for such a certificate which, the Irish embassy in Washington said would have “no legal standing as such [but] would constitute official recognition for many people of their familial and emotional connection to Ireland".

Anyone applying for the certificate would have to provide some evidence of Irish lineage - a birth certificate, baptismal form, death or marriage documents, or a property deed.

Special deals on travel such as discounts on car rental, hotel rooms, restaurants have all been discussed for Diaspora members who qualify.

Those who have a grandparent born in Ireland can get citizenship but it is those beyond that generation or those unable to come up with exact information that the certificate is aimed.

While most of the reaction seemed positive – a soldier claiming his entire division would qualify, or someone else noting that it should be pushed further, to include citizenship – there were a few nay-sayers.

A proposal for a membership card that would allow tourists avail of discounts in Ireland was attacked by a Fianna Fail member who said that, "I do hope that the same [tourist] discounts will apply to those of us living on this island too – I would envisage a serious PR backlash if there were a two-tier system set up… with Irish people faring worse."

The general idea of such a certificate appalled some correspondents, one of whom said, “I just read about your decision to introduce a certificate of Irishness. To be honest, I cannot think of anything more crass and cheap and ultimately demeaning to the Irish Diaspora."

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bunkerhill | Apr 19, 2011, 01:45 PM EDT

I think it is an idea which will connect so many Irish descendents around the world with the ancestry they hold so proudly. My family came to the US in 1719 so I do not qualify, however I married into an Irish family as I always admired them. My wife does not need a certificate but in our large extended and ethnically mixed family, Irish descendents here for generations continue to love Ireland and even give their children Gaelic names. Writer David McCullough in his book about Pres. John Adams writes that Ireland was the first country ever with the concept "All men are created equal." How many people know that? Our great nation was built on an Irish concept. That alone is a reason to be so proud of ones heritage. I have an ancestor commemorated on Bunker Hill which probably is the reason for my identification with Irish. I don't think there is any necessity to grant any privileges beyond the certificate and I feel the recipients would not be looking for more. Dual citizenship is not forbidden by the US and is held by France, the UK and Israel. There are probably more but those are the ones I know. The Irish I know have the same love for their history and ancient homeland as the Israelis. Science is also beginning to show that the Irish homeland is probably as old or older that Israel. Good luck to tiny Ireland.

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mamaginnty | Apr 16, 2011, 11:41 AM EDT

Go for it folks, and be proud you have that little bit of irish blood in you, no matter what nationality you are now. GoergieD is at it as usual, bigotry oozing from every pore.

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RobbCobb | Jan 08, 2011, 12:28 PM EST

This sounds like a fantastic idea to me. Not to belittle the Irish and their passion for their heritage, but I think it would be a cool idea just from the novelty of it. I have Irish ancestory from my maternal Grandmother's side of the family, and though she wasn't outspoken about it, she was alway proud of her heritage. I'd love the connection for my sons and I.

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Dublinjas | Oct 30, 2010, 07:56 PM EDT

Another alcohol fueled idea of a straw to be grasped at.

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haikued2 | Oct 29, 2010, 11:26 AM EDT

PS..and officially a "Fighting Irish" guy.

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haikued2 | Oct 29, 2010, 11:25 AM EDT

OK..Grandmother Kennedy, (Irish or Scot?), great grandmother, Murphy, two visits to Ireland, one son lives there. Do I qualify?

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GeorgeDillon | Oct 27, 2010, 08:28 AM EDT

SeamusMor: You make a good suggestion. But I wouldn't buy into your "Haj" suggestion, however interesting I find it. I say that great grandchildren of Irish should be fastracked to Irish residency, the equivalent of the Green Card. Then, if they live in Ireland and behave themselves for the requisite 5 years, give them citizenship. After all, they have more entitlement and loyalty to Ireland than Latvians, Pakistanis, Nigerians etc.

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SeamusMor | Oct 26, 2010, 12:32 PM EDT

The Irish government should extend the right to apply for citizenship to the great grand children of people born in Ireland, provided that they visit Ireland to obtain the Irish Heritage Certificate. It would be like the Muslim "Hajj", the sacred obligation to visit Mecca at least once in their lives. " You must visit Ireland at least once in your life to be considered truly Irish." should be the line. This would cause a spike in tourism, for the like of which there is no precedent. Millions of tourists mean billions of Euros to the Irish economy. Some of those who might never have traveled to Ireland except to get the heritage certificate will fall in love with the place and want to come back. There will be others who want to invest in Irish businesses, buy homes, live and retire in Ireland. The Celtic Tiger might roar once more!

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McSpartacus | Oct 26, 2010, 11:58 AM EDT

@DanDennehy: I'm native-born Irish, and I certainly hope people like yourself will sign up for it - and ask for more! The big issue that I think they are afraid of, is the healthcare costs. Frankly, I hope they can square that in future with the local spending/investment power of "wealthy Americans" who return.

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McSpartacus | Oct 26, 2010, 11:52 AM EDT

@Pittsburghkid: schemes like this one are often useful to sign up for as gateways to other possibilities opened up in the future. Bureaucracy in Ireland is funny like that. It may be that at some stage they decide to offer another scheme, or change this one, and "grandfather" previous participants into any newer expanded scheme with more paperwork/restrictions but better opportunities. Might be worth your consideration signing up for it even if it seems to be lacking right now.

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McSpartacus | Oct 26, 2010, 11:48 AM EDT

@Annie O: if you have two grandparents that are documented as being born in Ireland, you almost certainly qualify for Irish citizenship if you so choose. Something to consider.

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McSpartacus | Oct 26, 2010, 11:44 AM EDT

@plastic paddy: Dual citizenship is not illegal. There may be issues as to whether you are getting non-US citizenship by swearing an oath of allegiance to another state. If you got it through birthright/parentage, not so much. The issue of the US "recognising" dual-citizenship I don't understand - it's not a separate category of US citizen. Whether you decide to inform government authorities is up to the individual - I presume most people would consider it their own private business and avoid any potential hassle e.g. at airports.

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Annie O | Oct 25, 2010, 10:44 PM EDT

Both of my Grandparents where born and raised in Ireland. I have always loved the songs my grandfather would sing to me. I am a natural redhead like my grandmotherand I have the irish temper of my Dad. I love Ireland and her people. I have never been to Ireland but I feel as if it is my home. I for one would be proud and honored if I could be reconized as the Granddaughter of two irish citizens. I know that if my grandfather where alive today he would with the twinkel in his eye and a smile on his face be one very proud irishman knowing that his Granddaughter was going to be welcome home to a land he loved till the day he died. Because of my Grandparents stories and songs I feel as if Ireland is also my home.

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Pittsburghkid | Oct 25, 2010, 08:39 PM EDT

I'm not a Native American, even though I am a fourth generation Irish American. Now because my great-grandfather was my last ancestor born in Ireland, I can become an Irish Citizen. I feel like a man without a country.

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nygalwaygirl | Oct 25, 2010, 05:12 PM EDT

Plastic Paddy, it's totally untrue that dual citizenship is illegal - You might look up and see what the State Department says - http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html It's clear it's not illegal, and only becomes a problem if you take on the citizenship of another country with the intention of giving up your US citizenship. Hardly the case for most people taking advantage of Irish citizenship.

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