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Home Page > News > Catholic Church leaders slam decision to close Ireland’s Vatican Embassy

Catholic Church leaders slam decision to close Ireland’s Vatican Embassy

Irish relations with Holy See hit new low after government closure

CATHAL DERVAN,

IrishCentral Staff Writer

Published Friday, November 4, 2011, 7:27 AM

Updated Friday, November 4, 2011, 12:44 PM

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The entrance to the Irish embassy at the Vatican

Photo by clericalwhispers.blogspot.com

Relations between the Catholic Church and the Irish State have hit an all-time low after the Dublin government announced that it is to close its embassy at the Vatican.

A Reuters report stated that Vatican officials were "stunned" by the decision.

"This is really bad for the Vatican because Ireland is the first big Catholic country to do this and because of what Catholicism means in Irish history," said a Vatican diplomatic source.

Irish Church bosses have reacted with dismay to the news, confirmed by Minister for Foreign Affairs and Deputy Prime Minister Eamon Gilmore.

The Labor Party leader has repeatedly claimed in media interviews that the move is a cost cutting exercise with the Irish embassy in Iran and a consulate office in East Timor also to close.

But Catholic Church leaders are convinced the closure is the latest response by the Government to the row between Prime Minister Enda Kenny and the Holy See over the Church’s attitude to the report on clerical sex abuse in the Cork diocese of Cloyne.

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Catholic Church leaders slam decision to close Ireland’s Vatican Embassy

Starlings take flight over River Shannon in Ireland - VIDEO

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Kenny gained headlines across the world when he attacked the Church’s failure to co-operate with government agencies investigating widespread claims of clerical abuse in the Cloyne diocese.

The decision to close the Irish Embassy to the Holy See in Rome, at a potential saving of one million dollars a year, is seen as another affront to the Catholic Church.

The decision is just the latest blow to a deteriorating relationship between Church and State. Just weeks after Kenny’s attack, the Vatican recalled Papal Nuncio, Dr Giuseppe Leanza, from Dublin. He has yet to be replaced.

Catholic Primate of Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, and Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, have both condemned the decision to close the Vatican embassy.

“My reaction is one of profound disappointment at the closure of the Irish Embassy in the Vatican,” said Cardinal Brady.

“The decision means that Ireland will be without a resident Ambassador to the Holy See for the first time since diplomatic relations were established and envoys were exchanged between the two states in 1929.

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2BorNot2B | Nov 10, 2011, 02:21 AM EST

PROTESTANT SEX ABUSE ---- Has the priestly pledge of celibacy contributed to a pattern of inappropriate and exploitative sex by Catholics? Probably. But a look at the behavior of politicians and Protestant ministers -- even just those iceberg tips that actually emerge into daylight -- should tell us that celibacy is a small part of the story. The reality is that power is arousing for many male humans (and that male power and status are arousing for many females). The pattern is plain as day in Hollywood dramas, rape statistics, sexual fantasies, D.C. dramas, and clergy sex abuse. (Where is the university research on the topic?) And yet we continue to delude ourselves that Protestant ministers are somehow exempt from the endemic, that the incidents are isolated. We say that "absolute power corrupts absolutely," and yet we give ministers a level of deference that is unparalleled -- and expect our vulnerable children to do the same. (continues)

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2BorNot2B | Nov 10, 2011, 02:19 AM EST

PROTESTANT SEX ABUSE --- The perception that Catholic priests are overrepresented among offenders is correct. They do offend at a higher rate. BUT because this country is predominantly Protestant, MORE CHILDREN ARE ABUSED BY PROTESTANT MINISTERS THAN BY CATHOLIC PRIESTS. **** In 1990, the Freedom from Religion Foundation issued a study on pedophilia by clergy. At that time, two clergy per week were being arrested in North America for sex crimes against children. 58% of them were Protestant. ---- Why then do we largely overlook the horrific pattern of Protestant pedophilia and sexual exploitation? Here are a few factors to consider: ****•The Catholic Church is easier to think of as a monolithic entity. That means it is easier for the press to cohere the abuse incidents into a single story and our brains to grok it. The idea of one big conspiracy appeals to us: "The Church" did it and then covered it up. ****The centralized hierarchy of Catholicism makes Catholic offenders easier to sue and guarantees deep pockets. The lawsuits in turn both generate their own news cycle and bring victims out of the closet. ****Since most Americans are Protestants, the Catholic sex abuse scandal is a story about "them." Protestant Pedophilia is a story about "us," which makes it less gratifying and more uncomfortable.**** Most Americans find the idea of celibacy peculiar at best. It makes for a more interesting narrative than a generic story about abuse of authority. (continues)

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2BorNot2B | Nov 09, 2011, 04:58 PM EST

PROTESTANT ABUSE - THE SERIES: ***One of the most striking aspects of the Protestant clergy sex abuse pattern is that most people don't realize it is a pattern. The Catholic Church has taken a well deserved beating in the courts and in the court of public opinion as former altar boys, orphans and ordinary parishioners come forward with appalling stories of sex abuse. Yet equally egregious violations by Protestant clergy fail to generate the same level of outrage. Why? You might answer that the problems in the Catholic Church are uniquely widespread, but that would be the wrong answer. Last week's Eddie Long scandal, in which one of the nation's most politically connected and homophobic mega-ministers was accused of strong-arming gay sex out of teens, was just one tip of an ENORMOUS Protestant iceberg. The news monthly Freethought Today has a regular feature called "Black Collar Crime Blotter," typically a two-page sampler of fraud, theft, and sexual abuse taken from the media across the country. They just turned their archive over to the Kinsey Institute. A website called ClergyGoneWild.com provides links to recent crime stories, including child abuse (206 articles) and internet solicitation (18).(continues..)

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2BorNot2B | Nov 09, 2011, 04:57 PM EST

PROTESTANT-ABUSE-SUFFERING-MASSES-AND COVERUPS.com ---- And you thought those self-righteous proddy prigs were clean from abuse and cover up??? News to ya... neither they nor any other organization (religious, public, private) or gov't dependency can lay claim to 'squeaky clean.' Didya hear about the U of PA and JoPa's abuser protégé for ONLY 15 YEARS? -- Here's looking at Rom 3:10 for the bible thumpers, those self-anointed anti-Cath preacher/ranters on these who blogs can't let up about "CATHOLICS ONLY!!" So, bottoms up, as the proddy abusing clergy would demand of their victims! --- Following, some eye openers for those inclined to think they can accrue 'converts' for their piddly and fractious sects with their tales of woe; and this from the libtard über-rag HuffPoo, no less! --- Shame to those deluded ones honed on the Catholic mote ONLY and haven’t looked at the LOG on the prot eye. Shame also on those who get their info from this IC rag only. On this particular subject, there's a whole web out there looking for your discriminating eye-balls. ***TOO BAD you say.. that prots don't have embassies to be closed anywhere?

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sirpeter | Nov 06, 2011, 10:45 AM EST

Stan you underestimate creationists and their ability to create what they want to believe.They will simple say man made life is exactly what you said~Artificial.Creationists are crawling all over the USA ready to take a baseball bat to anyone who interferes with their fairy stories.It's a hopeless case.The media control the minds of too many.I mean look at what Walt Disney has done with all those cute talking animals that are pumping into kids heads from birth.A hundred years ago a dog was classed as a lower life form and people treated it as such.Now millions of people can justify severely punishing another person if that person treats an animal unkindly.Even some now could justify the killing of a person for bad animal cruelty.That's the power of the media.The creation story will be around for a long time.It suits the powerful and you could never get people to go to war unless they feel God is on their side.

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stanJames | Nov 05, 2011, 10:59 PM EDT

Think of all the money the Irish people will save when the church is dead. And then their extensive landholdings will be sold to help the poor and the state. it goes far beyond the cost of an embassy..................... BTW the church's anti stem cell research program> It has nothing to do with protecting life..........And everything to do with preventing scientists understanding the origins of life, how cells differentiate etc........... The church realizes that with stem cell research we will ultimately come to understand, and even create life within the next 25 years from non living chemicals................ And with artificial life, blow the creation story to the dung pile on which it belongs.

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jacersagain | Nov 05, 2011, 10:24 PM EDT

(...more) Well, it can’t through the Vatican City itself... but it has and does through its vast networking with hundreds of countries throughout the world through all its parishes and communities on the ground. The USA recognises well the Vatican’s influence and ability to network even in countries that the USA doesn’t have relations with, so much so that the CIA trains the Vatican in modern intelligence-gathering and the US Army arms and trains those colourful docile-looking Swiss Guards to the point of being killers if necessary to protect the Pope. It is high profile recognition such as the US gives the Vatican that the Irish Govt has thrown away. Ireland will now be without a physical presence in the Halls of the Vatican and therefore out in the cold from the Vatican’s subtle influences that were of huge economic benefit to Ireland since 1929. Methinks this stupid decision will rebound on Ireland and its people, unless its silent majority people shout out loud for its rescinding. If the Greeks can drop a stupid referendum decision within 24 hours, so should this Irish Govt drop its stupid decision very quickly.

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jacersagain | Nov 05, 2011, 10:22 PM EDT

(...more) This Govt had the cheek to ask the Irish people to give its stupid self-elitist politicians quasi-judicial powers in the recent referendum and were told where to get off by the people of Ireland. Now look at what they’ve done with what little power they have... stupid is stupid, Mr. Gilmore! Methinks the Irish Govt have made a colossal mistake here. The Vatican is not an economy and has no economic dealings with any of the countries that it has ambassadorial relationships with. Gilmore’s excuse on these grounds must be the most flagrant bare-faced lie that Irish Catholics have heard from any Government. With a population of just 800, what economic benefit could the Vatican offer Ireland and its population of 3.5 million? (More...)

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jacersagain | Nov 05, 2011, 10:20 PM EDT

I agree totally with SeamusMor and petedev (Nov 4, 09.53AM and 09.54AM). The begrudgers had better be aware of statistics for the Catholic Church, particularly the following: there are over 1.2 billion Catholics in the world; there are some 410,000 priests serving them; there are some 3000 priests under investigation by the Church for sexual wrongs, of which 900 are for heterosexual acts (of any age), 1800 for sexual acts to adolescents chiefly of the same sex, and the remaining 300 are for paedophilia i.e. sexual acts against children. Of the 3000, 2400 are priests in the USA. Can we now look at the remaining 407,000 priests who do not engage in such acts but who still go about Christ’s mission with full dignity and be thankful for their ministry? The Holy See has diplomatic relations with almost 200 countries in which its priests work, almost half of which have Embassies in Rome and Ireland has been one of the countries with the longest embassy presence there. (More...)

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barneyjo | Nov 05, 2011, 09:24 PM EDT

@falconflash- I am pro-life, pro Christ, and there is nothing in any of my posts to suggest otherwise. Like yourself, I dont have a handful of rocks to throw, but that doesnt stop me from looking at the world anew, which I am as far as my church is concerned!!

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eiriamach | Nov 05, 2011, 08:49 PM EDT

With a quotation from Nicholas Kristof's opinion piece in yesterday's NY Times, I'll suggest another human-rights reason why other nations should follow Ireland's lead and call their ambassadors home from the Vatican: "Contraception already prevents 112 million abortions a year, by U.N. estimates. The United Nations Population Fund is a bête noire for conservatives, but its promotion of contraception means that it may have reduced abortions more than any organization in the world. . . . So as we greet the seven-billionth human, let’s try to delay the arrival of the eight billionth. We should all be able to agree on voluntary family planning as a cost-effective strategy to reduce poverty, conflict and environmental damage. If you think family planning is expensive, you haven’t priced babies." Condemning abortion while prohibiting contraceptives is like trying to fight a fire by shredding the fire hose into the flames. Vatican opposition to family planning programs has helped keep countless women and their families in poverty for generations.

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seanomelbourne | Nov 05, 2011, 08:31 PM EDT

What rock? what church? what fairy tale? falconflash.Jesus was a jew and you seem to have a problem with that.

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jacersagain | Nov 05, 2011, 07:11 PM EDT

This headline for this article is completely untrue. NOT ONE Catholic leader has “slammed” the Irish Government’s decision to close the Embassy to the Holy See. Many are very upset and disappointed about it alright but none has slammed it. In fact, this is what the Holy See Press Office said "The Holy See takes note of the decision by Ireland to close its embassy in Rome to the Holy See. Of course, any State which has diplomatic relations with the Holy See is free to decide, according to its possibilities and its interests, whether to have an ambassador to the Holy See resident in Rome, or resident in another country. What is important are diplomatic relations between the Holy See and the States, and these are not at issue with regard to Ireland". But I will tell yez what.. jacers here WILL slam the Irish Govt for the most stupid decision any Irish Govt has made on the diplomatic front. It will certainly rebound on the Irish Govt and on its people.

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dermotfastnet | Nov 05, 2011, 05:28 PM EDT

It seem's to me the Vatican is showing more urgent concern over the loss of the Embassy than they showed for the conduct of their representatives in Ireland and elsewhere

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brillopad | Nov 05, 2011, 11:47 AM EDT

It took Ireland as a nation long enough to See and admit what was going on,none of it Holy,within the confines of our so called church.It will take someone special or a miracle for any kind of a recovery.The gates should be welded shut and left fall to rack n ruin as a reminder to the Vatican of their sins committed on the children of our world.

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