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Bishops resist Vatican’s plans to downsize the Irish Catholic Church

Dioceses at risk of being eliminated

By
DARA KELLY,
IrishCentral Staff Writer
Published Friday, November 18, 2011, 8:26 AM
Updated Friday, November 18, 2011, 11:36 AM

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The Irish Catholic primate, Cardinal Sean Brady
The Irish Catholic primate, Cardinal Sean Brady
Photo by EPA/PAUL MCERLANE


Under the leadership of Irish Cardinal Sean Brady, the four Irish Archbishops are remaining resistant to Vatican plans of reducing the number of archdioceses in Ireland, and consequently, the number of bishops in Ireland.

The Irish Catholic reports that the Vatican’s investigation into the Church in Ireland, known as the Apostolic Visitation, triggered the idea to perhaps reduce the 26 Irish dioceses. In February 2010, the month prior to the Visitation, Pope Benedict XVI had met with Irish bishops and Vatican officials have been “floating the reform” ever since.

During that meeting, The Irish Catholic was told that many of the clergy were resisting the changes, but have realized in time that change is inevitable. They are, however, attempting to “minimize the cuts.”
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A September meeting in Maynooth devised plans that would in time remove the smaller dioceses. To do this, the Vatican would set a lower limit of 100,000 Catholics per diocese.
However, this number greatly contradicts what The Irish Catholic reports to be a “realistic” number of worshippers per diocese - 300,000.

A slash down to 100,000 would directly affect Cashel and Emly, Achonry, Ardagh and Clonmacnoise, Clogher, Clonfert, Dromore, Elphin, Killala, Kilmore, Ossory and Raphoe.

Factors that could play a role in whether or not the cuts will happen is an aging clergy in Ireland, a decreasing rate of practice for Catholics and an infrastructure that is ever more costly to maintain.

The visitation team to Ireland from the Vatican calls for the decrease in dioceses by stating that there is simply too much representation for such a small population. Thus, too many bishops are present for Vatican meetings, making uniform decisions hard to come by.
 

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14 Comments

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BishopSean | Nov 29, 2011, 08:24 AM EST
Hi, @BigFellaMick. There are at least 22 Catholic Churches, many of which are not under Rome, or ever were. Our mother church is the Assyrian Catholic Church of the East, whose Patriarch is Mar Dinkha IV, and this Church has never been a dependency of Rome. Peter, after founding the Church in Antioch, went on to Seleucía-Tcesifon (30 km. south of Baghdadm and 30 km north of ruins of Baghadad) along with John Mark, the Evangelist. 1 Peter 5:13 sends "greetings from Babylon," meaning Seleucía and the people in Jerusalem understood this. Peter later returned to Jerusalem and then on to Rome. This Church has been a Catholicate since 231 A.D. and a Patriarchate since 424 A.D. Other founders of this Church were Jude Thaddeus who died a martyr in Persia and Thomas who died a martyr in India. Our autonomous Exarchate was brought from India in 1902 to Britain and from there to the USA in 1959 and from the USA to South America in 2005. Historically our Church of the East pre-dates the Protestant, Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches. We believe neither in self-ordination or in the "Pax Romana"--meaning that only the Roman Catholic Church is entitled to call itself the perfect church, or capable of authenticating other Catholic Churches--or other Christian Churches. Regards.

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BigFellaMick | Nov 28, 2011, 10:40 PM EST
and to answer other comments, do you not read history regarding the crusades? The Catholics marched into the holy lands in RESPONSE to muslims butchering christian and jewish pilgrims and denying them access to holy sites. Especially at the request of Constantinople as they were experiencing conversion by the sword from muslims spreading west. The Catholic Church and its crusading armies were a reactionary force. Now of course not every action of every individual soldier who went on one of the many crusades can be held accountable by the Church. But whoever thinks the crusades were about Catholics going around forcing innocent muslims to convert or be slaughtered has some serious misgivings with historical accuracy.

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BigFellaMick | Nov 28, 2011, 10:35 PM EST
@BishopSean I don't know what you're talking about Sean. The Eastern Catholic Church may have its own Patriarch but the Eastern Catholic Church acknolwedges Rome as its head because it acknowledges Peter's Primacy. Were it not for this the ECC would have lost the validity of its apostolic succession. There are dozens of Catholic Church rites out there yet all acknowledge Rome at the head. That's just how it is. If you don't like it, try the protestant church. They're all about rebellion and self ordination and such

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keneconnor | Nov 21, 2011, 12:18 PM EST
Good. The Vatican finally gets it that Ireland now worships money and not the church that Jesus himself founded. And the irony is that we are now all broke so we have nothing.

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BishopSean | Nov 19, 2011, 04:04 PM EST
Hi, @Collette2. My Church is Eastern Catholic and has never been under Rome. Rome opened the inquisition against our church in India, during the Portuguese colonization, on mistaken grounds that we believed in the Nestorian Heresy, which we never did. We are a Patriarchal Catholic Church and must "walk the talk" of forgiving too. Our Church to this day in presecuted in the Middle East and elsewhere in the Orient. But the Good News of Jesus Christ is more important than the threats and persecution. Blessings!

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mamaginnty | Nov 19, 2011, 11:20 AM EST
Don't think they are on the decline, seem to be sending more and more into small area's in Africa, start the brainwashing again with the poor and uneducated.

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warlocks | Nov 19, 2011, 12:49 AM EST
Looks like the Catholic Church as we have known It. is on the decline. The Roman vatican Empire and Pope Ceasar are left over's from days long gone. The Empire is on its Death Bed !

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Collette2 | Nov 18, 2011, 08:53 PM EST
Don't you jut love the bishopSean's in the church. I wonder whose side your on. We're told to forget about the crusades, inquisition, burning at the stake of so many innocent and all the rest of the horrors perpetrated by the various popes directly and indrectly, through the ages.. These souls and todays individuals only have one life, for them it isn't, The Pope is dead, long live the Pope in perpetuity, moving on again making the lives of other's pitiful.

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BishopSean | Nov 18, 2011, 06:42 PM EST
Dear @supersurvivor,continued, Dear Supersurvivor77, An attitude of pardon, or of “willing to be willing” to pardon, is freeing--while holding onto the anger and bitterness is debilitating. I find when I cannot feel like pardoning another, I can hold onto Jesus Christ who already pardoned him on the cross. I let Jesus do what I cannot in the natural and let Him be God. King David, guilty of adultery and murder, recognized in Psalm 51 that ultimately it was against God he sinned and it would take God Himself to forgive him. Let God be God and let Him be your healer. Jesús in Hebrew means, “God Heals; God saves.” He cares about you. Blessings.

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BishopSean | Nov 18, 2011, 06:40 PM EST
Dear @supersurvivor 77, I recognize you have a right to feel extremely angry and not much like forgiving. But I urge you to try to make your anger your ally so you can get mobilized and move forward. Your abuser does not suffer because you are angry; you do. You can’t let anger and bitterness hold you back in life. In my view, you have to leave the past behind you, live in the present and plan for your future.

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rugbyplayer | Nov 18, 2011, 01:03 PM EST
Good grief! The Vatican vindictive over recent Irish snubs? Who'd a thunk?

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cillowen | Nov 18, 2011, 11:48 AM EST
The Vat should make it known that St. Patrick is not deemed a saint by them as like that of St Philomena whom they pulled the plug on, some years ago. Henry VIII's Pope Elizabeth is more in harmony with today's thinking. It should be the replacement for the Roman crazy influence - that had them dump much of God's beautiful creations from churches throughout the lenght and breath of Erin by fatso john..

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IAPRINCESS | Nov 18, 2011, 11:08 AM EST
Is the Vat finally getting the message? Too much to hope for!

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CaptainCon | Nov 18, 2011, 09:21 AM EST
Perhaps there could be a two-speed arrangement like with Europe. The Innocent and the Guilty. The latter for the chop. Which would be nice.

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