Are Ireland and the Catholic Church finally getting a divorce?
Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 at 08:55 AM
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Growing up in a small town in the west of Ireland the church was the pillar of our community.
The kindergarten was run by nuns. Church patronage governed both my national and high school. I was an alter girl. I sang in the school choir and then once I was old enough, I sang with the adult choir. I said readings at mass. I climbed Craogh Patrick during the annual pilgrimage.
Clergymen were actively involved in the community. The director of the annual pantomime, a priest. My career counselor, who offered me valuable life advice, a priest. My English teacher, whose profound words and teachings remain with me today, a priest.
Was this insular? Was it damaging? I certainly don’t think so. It was normal. But I can guarantee the church’s influence on my nieces and nephew’s upbringing will not be comparable.
At home last fall, my friend who works as a school teacher got a phone call with a job offer. I was surprised to hear it was the local priest, who had been on the interview panel that had called to offer her the job. He had an important influence in the selection process she informed me. Something which Ireland’s current Minister for Education is eager to dismantle.
Read More: Catholic Church to lose stronghold on Irish education system
When the Ferns Report (one of Ireland's first clerical abuse inquires in the Wexford diocese) was published in 2005. I interviewed one of Ireland’s most well respected religious correspondents.
He told me that the damning report of that day would be completely overshadowed by the future revelations into clerical abuse within the Irish Catholic Church. I always recall him quoting Lord Acton “absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Nobody questioned their authority or actions. The church was answerable to no-one. A disastrous partnership.
Read More: Wexford cleric denies historic child abuse allegation
Speaking in Time Magazine this week, Michael Kelly of the Irish Catholic Newspaper said we should now expect to see Catholics in Ireland “privatize” their faith. He said people will not look to the: “the hierarchy as previous generations did”. This is already apparent, as declining church attendance and an aging population of clergymen suggests we began this process some time ago.
Losing our religion, Ireland is a country tortured by economic woes and clamoring for a new identity it seems. It looks set to be a messy divorce.
Read More: Irish Prime Minister slams Vatican over Irish sex abuse stance
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cillowen | Nov 27, 2011, 04:27 PM EST
as long as we have henry viii's pope elizabeth, close at hand, we have a ring to kiss and knighting honors bestowed on our (irish and irish american) achievers.
Those who get giddy at the thought.
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FallsRNat | Nov 01, 2011, 05:25 PM EDT
the problems we had with the HRC started when we let them influence the policy of the IR towards our northern neighbours & made it a religious war, after 1921 a UI became little more than a cherished ideal as we lurched from crisis to the next.
The alarm bells should have rung when the CoE & protestant churches uncovered a litany of child abuse amongst their clergy, instead of a root & branch reform of our own church we sat on the sidelines trusting without comment the word of our holier than thou clergy who warned that the prods supped with the devil & the one true church was above this. We still denied or shouted down the dissenters as the RC church in the US imploded under the welter of the child abuse allegations, as if, Ireland as the most godly place on the planet was above all of these outrages, now we are reaping what we have sown & the young are leaving the church in droves, never to return.
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Intercessor | Aug 20, 2011, 10:36 AM EDT
Two definitions of "Christian Unity:" In one of the posts below, Pope John XXIII's dream of Church Reform and "Christian Unity" was mentioned. Unfortunately, in the Christian world, there are two divergent definitions. For Catholics, "Christian Unity" often means recognizing Rome's supposed supremacy. For Protestant's, we recognize the community of the Kingdom of God, which Jesus promised was "WITHIN." It is a kingdom not pinpointed in any local on the planet earth (like the Vatican), because it is IN Christ, where we all live and move and have our being. Those who are IN Christ, would openly welcome any Catholic, who would desire to leave the Catholic Church and become a part of the interdenominational Body of Christ. In fact, leaving the Church isn't even necessary, as one can be a member of the interdenominational Body of Christ if one recognizes the supremacy of Jesus, the Living Word of God, over that of the Catholic Church.
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Gearoid4 | Jul 30, 2011, 10:45 PM EDT
Advocate, the Rosary is very much based on the bible.
The rosary is a devotion in honor of the Virgin Mary. It consists of a set number of specific prayers. First are the introductory prayers: one Apostles’ Creed (Credo), one Our Father (the Pater Noster or the Lord’s Prayer), three Hail Mary’s (Ave’s), one Glory Be (Gloria Patri).
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Advocate | Jul 30, 2011, 09:36 PM EDT
Are Rosary beads 'spoken' of in your Bible, or just another man-made doctrine of the RCC....???
Read / Study Rev. 17 seriously!
Yahweh/God Bless
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bonbon1 | Jul 30, 2011, 11:16 AM EDT
When I was growing up I lived in a neighborhood that was largely Irish Catholic. One of my best friends mother (Mrs. Kelly) was a devout Catholic and a saintly woman. However, she wasn't Irish and came from a family of coal miners of another nationality. As a young person I didn't pay much attention to the many immoral acts commited by Catholic priests. However, whenever a Catholic priest commited some disgraceful act, Mrs. Kelly would tell me "The ruination of the Catholic Church is the making of priests from the sons of Irish bartenders". She also told me not to say anything during confession, if the Priest was Irish, because they couldn't be trusted to keep a secret. I thought she was being funny because as a child we were scared to death to say anything bad about nuns,priests or the Church.I now think that Mrs. Kelly may have had something bad done to her by a priest or was aware of some of the immoral things priests were doing and was trying to warn us children.I don't blame the Pope for trying to sweep bad news under the carpet. However, the buck stops with him and the Church needs to clean up it's act and he is the person who needs to take swift and decisive action now.
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PhilipOHayda | Jul 30, 2011, 09:52 AM EDT
Thank god!! hopefully they'll get rid of all this silly for good.
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barneyjo | Jul 29, 2011, 07:14 PM EDT
@AngelPrecious - "In the churches and ecclesial communities which are separated from full communion with the Catholic Church, many elements of santification and truth can be found. Members of these churches and communities are incorporated into Christ by Baptism and so we recognise them as brothers!!"[Compendium Catechism of the Catholic Church (Catholic Truth Society - pub 2006) - This also contains an introduction by Cardinal Ratzinger (Now Pope Benedict) - You were saying about validity??????????
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AngelPrecious | Jul 29, 2011, 06:22 PM EDT
Maybe some people that claim to be Catholic want a "divorce from Rome". I will never leave the Church! If this happens, All you will become are new protestants and will lose the validity of teh Sacraments. LOL, do you really believe the Old Catholics retained Sacramental validity????
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dermot.r | Jul 29, 2011, 04:24 PM EDT
I think that Catholics are ready for a divorce from Rome. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water; form the Irish Catholic Church as an independent branch in the wider Catholic communion much like the Old Catholics did in Holland and the American Catholic Church did in the USA. As a priest of the American Catholic Church, I celebrate the fact that we have full Apostolic Succession (so, our sacraments are valid), yet we ordain women, our clergy can marry, LGBT folk are fully embraced, and we govern ourselves by more democratic means.
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phinsman | Jul 29, 2011, 03:24 PM EDT
I completely agree with joma... religion should never have anything to do with any government. Everyone should have the right to believe what they want to believe, or to not believe in God. It is up to each person to decide. Based on no proof of the history of the Bible or other religious books/doctrines, which I consider is mostly mythology, religion should have no influence on any governments.
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peterson | Jul 29, 2011, 02:40 PM EDT
I vote for reform ! The Lord will be our Guide !
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cillowen | Jul 29, 2011, 02:31 PM EDT
they're ripe for a henry viii model it would appear.
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eiriamach | Jul 29, 2011, 01:29 PM EDT
Divorce is one alternative; reform is the other. Both are turbulent, quarrelsome, and anguishing, but one-- reform-- can have a happy outcome if Vatican officials can summon the humility to cease meddling in civil law and politics. While I was reading the article in Time magazine that Molly Muldoon linked to, I found there a 1962 article written for Time when the great reform council, Vatican II, was just about to begin and John XXIII was pope almost a half-century ago. What a contrast in Vatican attitude to today! About Pope John, the author writes, "Although he is by disposition no innovator, the Pope himself is keenly aware of the mood of the church —and if the church's mood is to change, then he will help it do so. No one has higher ambitions for the outcome of the council, they add, for John has never stopped talking about Christian unity as the aim of the council. 'We must bestir ourselves,' he told one group of missionaries, 'and not rest until we have overcome our old habits of thought, our prejudices and the use of expressions that are anything but courteous, so as to create a climate favorable to the reconciliation we look forward to.'" The Vatican could use a strong shot in the arm of that medicine today.
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