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E-mailNo winner in Kennedy - bishop abortion standoff
Published Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:44 AM
Updated Sunday, November 22, 2009, 11:40 AM
No winners here: Bishop Tobin of Rhode Island who has banned Patrick Kennedy from Communion over Kennedy's position on abortion
The decision to bar Congressman Patrick Kennedy from receiving Communion by Rhode Island Bishop Thomas Tobin is a step too far.
Abortion is a complex and incredibly emotional issue, which has divided this country for decades. However, dialogue, not confrontation, is the way forward.
If we start drawing lines, then it starts to get utterly polarized and nasty. The Catholic Church is against the death penalty. Should Rudy Giuliani be banned also from the altar rails because he supports it?
Of course not. The way forward on all these issues is to begin and continue a dialogue, such as what is now happening over the issue in the health care reform bill.
There, the Catholic Church has won a major victory with the agreement of Democrats that federal funding for abortions be curtailed.
There is also a mood in the country that, as life is seen to be established earlier than previously thought, that the issue of late-term abortions has tipped decisively in their favor.
Those are real victories, fairly won in a very difficult and emotional environment.
The arguments on the other side are also compelling. For example, if you ban abortion completely (as in Ireland, where women are forced to go to England), the problem may actually get worse.
In that case, we return to back-street abortionists for the poor, while the rich will simply find another way .
Bishop Tobin is treading on treacherous turf here. It leaves no room for dialogue and even less for the kind of patient and long-term perspective that is needed.
Patrick Kennedy has freely admitted he is a less than perfect human being, that he has struggled with alcoholism and other vices. The fact that he has been so straightforward about his failings is a credit to him.
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Posted by MotherIrish on Jun 02, 2010, 11:12 AM EDTThree points need to be made. The Republicans have been against abortions for a long time. It is the liberal democrats who always push for it. And two, supporting the rights of others does not mean that you yourself intended to do the act, especially if you are a politician (its all about the votes, folks.) Lastly, we are governed by laws that have been passed. Don't like the laws, then get them changed. Don't like the death penalty? Change it. But we are a country that separates our religion from the events of state as a matter of public policy.
Posted by pat52rk on Jun 01, 2010, 07:58 PM EDT
christisall , jesus said, judge not and thou shall not be juged, what part of that dont you understand
Posted by murphy66 on Apr 04, 2010, 04:23 PM EDT
I am the issue of a rape. Let those foetuses live!
Posted by Christisall on Mar 13, 2010, 11:39 AM EST
God told Moses: Thou shalt not kill. What part of that do you not get?
Posted by Christisall on Mar 13, 2010, 11:38 AM EST
I actually met a woman who was raped and left pregnant. She carried this treasure of a child to term, gave birth, and has been delighted throughout her life to watch this child become a prodigy, talented and beautiful. This was God's gift to her for not killing the innocent babe.
Posted by Christisall on Mar 13, 2010, 11:37 AM EST
KIlling babies within the womb is the worst crime ever.
Go into Utube and watch the video, The Silent Scream; watch the baby in the womb try to escape the killing tools and then be dismembered till nothing but its little head is left. And then, they suck out the brains so the head can be passed through the giney. God's going to pay us back.Just watch. It has already started.
Posted by Bushothehill on Mar 09, 2010, 06:34 PM EST
It defies all logic to equate the innocent unborn chid with that of a criminal who has slain a fellow human being. In other words,we witness idiotic apologists trying to convince themselves of equal guilt of both the fetus and the actions of a low-life germ of humanity.
Posted by Bushothehill on Mar 07, 2010, 07:47 AM EST
To Advocate, wise men pray they do nothing to offend god, they do not presume to know his will. You say, "gods opinion is the only one that matters" Where do you come off telling me YOU KNOW god's opinion? Your delusions to the contrary, you do not speak for god. You are however correct about morally bankrupt, but not for the reasons you espouse. You and your church have no problem forcing a woman to have her rapist's child, because as you say all live is sacred, but then have no problem putting the rapist to death. Yes you're correct about morally bankrupt but it is not me, but you that are morally bankrupt.
Posted by Advocate on Mar 05, 2010, 01:16 PM EST
Abortion is MURDER! Neither my opinion, nor yours, nor the Pope's, matters! Yahweh/God's opinion is the ONLY one that matters! End of story! End of controversary, (which should NOT even exist since Yahweh's laws are clear & settled...).
Seems We the SHEEPle are using abortion as a method of birth control. How strange! We have become 'morally bankrupt' and now silently tolerate every Form of Evil...
We are about to pay a price We the SHEEPle shall NOT be happy with via a tearful albeit, just Creator named Yahweh! (also know by the 'Title' of God!) Are YOU Ready? Really!
Posted by connor32 on Feb 28, 2010, 11:54 AM EST
The Bishop is right for barring him from recieving communion. He is consiously sinning, and since he's an activist for Pro-Choice, then that shows that he's not sorry for it. It's ridculous that people actually want people to kill their unborn babies and are proud of it.
Posted by noreendelargy on Feb 21, 2010, 04:06 PM EST
Abortion is murder. No matter how many weeks gestation.
My youngest grand-daughter was born at 25 weeks and Thanks to all the prayers and dedicated medical personnel she is perfect. Now 3 years old. Life is Precious. Never destroy this precious gift.
Posted by JosephOCasey on Feb 09, 2010, 12:44 AM EST
There need be no room for dialogue on an issue such as abortion. The Church's position is clear and not up for debate. Patience only leads to killing more innocent unborn gifts from God.
Attempting to equate abortion to the death penalty is absurd. The Church's teachings do not put abortion on an equal footing as the death penalty. Abortion kills innocent babies, the death penalty deals with full grown adults who, through their own free will, violated a law in which they knew the potential result.
Why is it that when the church singles out a liberal Democrat, you must try to find an equivalent involving a Republican? Notice I didn't say conservative Republican as Rudy Guiliani would not qualify as a conservative. Your point would have been better made if you brought up the fact that Guiliani is also pro choice. I will agree that he, too should be denied communion.
Posted by Spiritranger on Feb 06, 2010, 10:01 AM EST
God always has the last vote and if you are on the wrong side of God's Word you are simply wrong. Abortion is murder and Rep. Kennedy is toast if he doesn't repent. (Luke 13:3, John 12:48)
Posted by 2BorNot2B on Jan 14, 2010, 01:13 AM EST
" I for one am getting tired of non-Catholics or non-practicing Catholics like yourself making lame attempts to rebuke our Bishops and our beliefs with your own private interpretation" -- Excellent comment Zeus Rodriguez!
Posted by JOSIESAR on Dec 14, 2009, 12:22 PM EST
SORRY PATRICK-NO SYMPATHY FROM ME. PATRICK IS THE ONE WHO BROADCASTED THIS ALL OVER THE NEWS! HE IS COMMITTING A SIN-PERIOD! HE DOES NOT DESERVE TO RECIEVE COMMUNION!
Posted by kickstar on Dec 03, 2009, 12:14 AM EST
Why would you go to church on sunday to listen to some child molester mumbling rubbish.
Posted by kickstar on Dec 03, 2009, 12:13 AM EST
'liseuxx' For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Seventh day and consecrated it.
For the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God.
Not the First day as Sunday is 'liseuxx' But Sunday is the day the Romans set aside to worship the Sun God as can is modelled in the so called Monstrance that is an icon of the Sun. That you worship on Sun-day
Posted by liseuxx on Nov 27, 2009, 09:35 PM EST
They THINK they don't have to go to Church.... What about that 3rd Commandment- Keep holy the Sabbath day? For Catholics that's Sunday and it involves worshiping God in commmunion with the Body of Christ.
Posted by IrishEddy on Nov 26, 2009, 11:31 AM EST
Some people say anything so they don't have to go to church
Posted by liseuxx on Nov 24, 2009, 10:41 AM EST
greenbuddha- How come no one says the Church should have its tax exempt status removed for meddling in affairs of state when we feed the hungry and clothe the naked?
Feeding the poor is often politicized too- as to whom gets the money. Can't have it both ways.
Posted by liseuxx on Nov 24, 2009, 10:39 AM EST
Truth wins.
The good bishop has advised Mr. Kennedy to not present himself for Holy Communion because of his suppport of abortion. It is scandalous to the faithful that a "Catholic politician" says that abortion is a "right" for women.
Because the bishop is doing his job- truth wins. If Kennedy has publically sinned by making abortion acceptable, possible, and allowable, he must make a public repudiation before he presents himself for Communion.
Abortion is murder, and we should protect the most vulnerable among us.
Posted by liseuxx on Nov 24, 2009, 10:36 AM EST
I agree. Here in America, one is safer in a Catholic school because of the policies protecting youngsters than one is in a public school.
Posted by ZeusRodriguez on Nov 23, 2009, 06:07 PM EST
That last comment was so full of logical fallacies, I don't know where to begin...so I won't, they are obvious enough.
Posted by gkalexie on Nov 23, 2009, 01:32 PM EST
It never ceases to amaze me that the Catholic hierarchy is so determined to speak out on behalf of unborn children, but they continue to do nothing about the soul murders of so many people who were sexually murdered by predatory priests while they were innocent children or vulnerable adults. If this isn't the epitome of hypocrisy, I don't know what is!!!
Posted by ainehannah on Nov 23, 2009, 09:20 AM EST
Nobody wins but the Bishop gets to test the ground on how far he can push parishioners before they leave the church. The choice to terminate is a horrendous one. Opting out of a po-faced, unforgiving church is nothing in comparison. If the Bishop is happy with a smaller communion and being less and less relevant to today's world, then of course, I'm happy for him.
Posted by greenbuddha on Nov 22, 2009, 07:16 PM EST
Because churches are so deep into politics, they need to loose their tax exempt status.
Posted by vincentruane on Nov 22, 2009, 06:37 PM EST
It's about time Catholic Bishops started defending the true teachings of the Catholic Faith. Over 70 million Americans have now been killed in the abortion holocaust. And disgusting as it may be, certain career politicians in their youth knew that if they supported the abortion holocaust, ie, the mass killing of their own country men and women!They were guaranteed millions and millions of free publicity in America's newspapers to help them gain name recognition.If a politician or journalist's legacy is,that he supported the killing of weak and defenseless human beings, then what does he really stand for?
Posted by hardshell on Nov 22, 2009, 06:19 PM EST
jacersisityourself, The problem of communication is that it is people often talking past each other. You will never make me believe that individual bishops or Pope's do not choose to emphasize church doctrine according to the political environment. If McNamara's citation is correct, Bishop Tobin is not in tune with Pope John Paul II.
Posted by jacersisityourself on Nov 22, 2009, 05:28 PM EST
Nah, hardshell - the Church's teachings are firm - when a baby is conceived, it has a soul given to it by God. That soul is due a right to live in the body that it has been chosen by God to be conceived in. No Pope ever has said otherwise, from St. Peter down through the ages. Destruction of the creation that the soul lives in is murder of it's God-created soul, never mind of it's human-created existence. Alaskas' Palin at least recognised that - herself, her husband and the baby enjoy that realsisation today.
Posted by hardshell on Nov 22, 2009, 02:48 PM EST
In 1999, it would have been a different Pope and a different set of marching orders.
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