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War of words between Vatican and Irish government continues

Ireland may close its Vatican embassy hints Foreign Minster Gilmore

By
PATRICK O'BRIAN,
IrishCentral.com Contributing Writer
Published Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 7:07 AM
Updated Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 9:29 AM

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Eamon Gilmore
Eamon Gilmore
Photo by Google Images


The war of words between the Irish government and the  Vatican continued yesterday with Foreign Minister and Deputy Leader Eamon Gilmore hitting back at charges by the Vatican that  the Irish government had failed to point out specific mistakes the Vatican made.

He also hinted that Ireland may not fill its vacant ambassadorial position at the Vatican and may run the Vatican operation from their regular Italian embassy . The Vatican has withdrawn its papal nuncio from  Ireland.

Referring to the Vatican call for specifics Gilmore  stated "The specifics, let’s be clear about the specifics: children were abused — that’s specific. Let’s not be distracted, let’s not miss the point. No loose charges were made," he said.
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"There was the most horrific sexual abuse of children perpetrated by clerics. The Catholic Church did not deal with that as it should have dealt with it. Let’s not be distracted. The Taoiseach and the Government stand over what was said."

The Vatican had sent a 25 page document reply to Irish authorities, strongly denying they had participated in any cover up of child sex abuse and pointing out that Prime Minster Enda Kenny had made no specific charges during his speech to the Irish parliament  in July attacking the Catholic Church and accusing them of a cover-up

"When the Taoiseach spoke in the Dáil, the Taoiseach was speaking for the Government and he was speaking, I believe, for the people of this country."

Gilmore stated that Vatican's detailed response "probably misses the point".

"The point here as far as the government is concerned is that the issue we want addressed is the welfare of children and the protection of children," he said.

​
See more: Vatican , Irish Catholic Church , Clerical sexual abuse , enda kenny , eamon gilmore , Irish government , Embassy
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39 Comments

15 - 39 | See all comments

Abused.N.I | Sep 09, 2011, 04:54 AM EDT
The church will never listen or co-operate with anyone,they whole-heartly believe they are above mans-laws.They believe,they,and only they speak for God and should not be held accountable to any Government. As if the church will listen to anyone,They are a law unto themselves,their moto is='DO AS WE SAY','DO AS WE DO'.

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JuneAnnette | Sep 09, 2011, 12:04 AM EDT
“Suffer the little children” . . a flagrant abuse of power The time is long overdue to tell the story of what has to be the most unreported news story of the century in the context of the Roman Catholic X files . . time to expose the brutal institutional abuse committed by RC clergy in Northern Ireland, of what can only be regarded as crimes against humanity, and which the so-called “princes of the church”of Rome are working tirelessly to consign to history and keep hidden from the public eye, in what amounts to the mother of Roman Catholic cover ups. The time is come to expose the depraved men of the cloth in the RCC who subjected vulnerable children to a life of terror and torment, whom they abused with impunity and intimidated into silence.The time is come to expose the monsters who stole their innocence and consigned them to a life of unrelenting misery, fear, & trauma, reducing them to nothing more than chattel to be passed among themselves as play things to satisfy the insatiable and depraved sexual appetites of their sadistic tormenters. Time to tell the world of the forgotten children, whose harrowing stories of degradation, humiliation, shame, pain, suffering and sorrow cry for justice.

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Atchison1 | Sep 07, 2011, 06:00 PM EDT
The Church keeps wanting to get into tiny little words of discourse - and misses the big picture. I think the anger now is about the bishops and others higher in the Church not being held accountable for having covered up the abuse and failing to act to protect children. It isn't about what the Church did in words - it is about what the Church failed to do in action. Many bishops in their dioceses and cardinals in Rome quibbled over words and failed our children - how many of them got sacked?

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CaptainCon | Sep 07, 2011, 05:22 PM EDT
Trealach that preamble to the constitution is a bloody disgrace- having said that it isn't an article of the constitution and therefore has no force in Irish law. What is in force in Irish law is that the catholic church was disestablished in the early 1970's and that it is illegal to discriminate in Irish law on a sectarian basis. Stick to your Fairy Club 'legalities'.

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JuneAnnette | Sep 07, 2011, 12:29 PM EDT
Source: Irish Central / Article: Memo to Irish Catholic Church: Your services are no longer needed /Posted by FatherTim at 7/4/2009/ EXCERPT: “My friends, For the Catholic Church In Ireland, the game is over.The Irish people, and I am convinced it is the majority, no longer wish to have the Catholic Church in their country, or in their lives, and possibly not in their faith. I cannot blame them. The Church is solely to blame for this, from front to back, start to finish. It is reaping what it sowed. Although running away from a fire rather than toward it is not the example many of us in the Church believe should be our service to God and His Children, it may be best for all that we settle up our debts, hand over our criminals, and catch the next plane out of Dublin. I am sure that, after a transition period, many of the services the Church provides in Ireland can be contracted to others, and I would hope whatever damage settlements we must and should pay will smoothe that changeover. There is simply no way that an institution so horriby tainted and so utterly mistrusted can or should speak in the name of Jesus Christ in Ireland, nor attempt to project spiritual and moral leadership.”***Since writing his scathing condemnation of the Roman Catholic “church “Fr. Tim”, a Jesuit priest, seems to be “missing in action”, and no longer appears on the roster of blogs at Irish Central! No one seems to know the whereabouts of “Fr. Tim” but in all likelihood, he has been spirited off to some remote monastery consigned to a life of prayer, penance and silence for the unforgiveable crime of telling the TRUTH!

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Collette2 | Sep 07, 2011, 05:23 AM EDT
gordong; you and the majority of other Catholics. Unfortunately many, not most any more, still proclaim their loyality, which causes one to wonder their agenda.

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gordongoblin | Sep 07, 2011, 03:35 AM EDT
oldboreen asks how likely it is that nobody (in the "laity") knew. Having grown up as an altar boy in a church mentioned in the Murphy report perhaps I can help. There was a priest we children avoided. But... we also thought that the rumours must not *really* be true. Because we had faith that the church would not allow a known abuser to continue having access to children. That was a costly mistake and hopefully that attitude is now dead.

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gordongoblin | Sep 07, 2011, 03:31 AM EDT
I'd like to see this move from words to siezed assets. The church already owes us for the money the state paid out on its behalf. Let's get it back.

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noeldoyle | Sep 06, 2011, 10:50 PM EDT
If the Taoiseach has evidence of a cover up in the Cloyne abuse cases, He must provide such evidence so as not to cause a "divide" among the ordinary people. If he has no such evidence, then he should say so. THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY TIL THEN. We all deserve the whole truth - whatever it may be.

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Collette2 | Sep 06, 2011, 10:16 PM EDT
Treachlach, what a load of ..... If Canon Law is in conflict with the law of the land based on human rights and childrens rights it has to be given the flick. Mary Robinson was on board of the United Nations, she knew better than most the Covention on the Rights of the Child. These internatioal laws takes precedence over any church's law including our own, the point of reference here, the problem being they have been permitted to believe in their divine right and got away with murder, literally for centuries. Thank God I wasn't cradle Catholic is all I can say, to think of what I could have been a part of.

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eiriamach | Sep 06, 2011, 06:46 PM EDT
This may not be clear from what I posted below in reply to still-deluded Trealach: the word "ordinary" in canon law usually denotes a bishop.

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eiriamach | Sep 06, 2011, 06:44 PM EDT
Just two laws were good enough for Jesus: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." That canon law I quoted below does not seem to hang on either of these. So again I ask, where in the bible do you find any mention of a "bishop," let alone how a bishop controls material wealth in his ecclesiastical jurisdiction?

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barneyjo | Sep 06, 2011, 06:06 PM EDT
@Trealach - "Canon Law Is God's Law" And this is ratified where exactly??

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Trealach | Sep 06, 2011, 05:21 PM EDT
@Eiriamach - before challenging a single section of Canon Law, I strongly suggest that you study both the Bible and Canon Law. I'm sure at the end of a proper study period you will be able to answer your own question. In the meantime, like it or not, accept it or not, Canon Law IS God's Law and has absolutely nothing to do with the ridiculous suggestion that it emanates from the "law of monarchy".

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eiriamach | Sep 06, 2011, 04:13 PM EDT
Trealach, where in the bible do you find this babble? "Canon 1276 §1. It is for the ordinary to exercise careful vigilance over the administration of all the goods which belong to public juridic persons subject to him, without prejudice to legitimate titles which attribute more significant rights to him." Canon law is a law of monarchy-- actually, empire. It has been unsuitable for any civil society since the late medieval era. It is alien to the world that Christ and the disciples knew and that early Christians experienced. It draws little if anything from scripture. It is designed to perpetuate a central autocrat and a huge, hierarchical bureaucracy. It is often amended, added to, and sections removed. What's holy about it? Nothing. It is an instrument of extending and securing power.

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