Vatican continue to silence ‘liberal’ Catholic priest Father Tony Flannery

My equal humanity and full participation in my religion you consider only "latest whims and fads of popular opinion," "the spirit of the age," gearoid4? And you're not judging? Really? And if the Holy Spirit does not play the numbers game," then what is the relevance of your comment that "The Protestant groups which implemented the same reform agenda as advocated by Fr Flanney, experienced no discernible improvement in their fortunes"? The happiness and spiritual lives of those they receive with hospitality, as well as of those who have been with the inclusive Churches for their lifetimes, have certainly improved. A glimpse of the Kingdom of Heaven, a whisper of the eternal-- they happen Sundays and most other times at such churches, amidst congregations with a sense of mission in this world that you cavalierly dismiss as "secular" and not worth your time-- such churches are transforming it, one open mind at a time.

No Eiriamach, the Holy Spirit does not play the numbers game, but one must discern the signs of the Holy Spirit, rather than fall for the spirit of the age. The protestant groups which implemented the same reform agenda as advocated by Fr Flanney, experienced no discernible improvement in their fortunes, but rather the reverse in fact. I am not judging any individual and do not presume to be a judge on anyone. I will leave that to the Good Lord. But I can recognize the Christian teachings that will allow mankind to flourish and will survive the latest whims and fads of popular opinion.

No Eiriamach, the Holy Spirit does not play the numbers game, but one must discern the signs of the Holy Spirit, than fall for the spirit of the age. The protestant groups which implemented the same reform agenda as advocated by Fr Flanney, there was no discernible improvement in their fortunes, and rather the reverse in fact. I am not judging any individual and do not presume to be a judge on anyone. I will leave that to the Good Lord. But I can recognize the Christian teachings that will allow mankind to flourish and will survive the latest whims and fads of popular opinion.

Mr. Hamiltom seems to be historically ignorant. The Church run Inquisitions ( as oppossed to the State counterparts ) were paragons of fairness. Compare & contrast with the capricious witch hunts and tortures of the Protestant Church's. The latter invented such inquisitorial niceties as the rack & the thumbscrew. Thabkfully the central control of the Vatican has avoided the splintering process ( how many different Protestant denominations are there ?, thousands ) of the Reformation Church's. Did'nt Fr. Flannery make a free vow of obedience at his ordination ?.

Mr Flannery ought to figure out which army he joined. The Catholic Church Limited is not based on anything but central Vatican control. There are probably more than a few of the Popes mandarins in the CDF/Inquisition whipping themselves nightly because they can't burn the likes of Flannery at the stake like they would have in the "good old days".

I doubt that the Holy Spirit plays a numbers game, Gearoid4, counting membership gains and losses. The intelligent thing to do, if you cannot bring yourself to see the Gospel at work in ECUSA's recognizing the equal moral worth of all, is to await the fruits of its reforms. The blessing of same-sex marriages and full inclusion of women are certainly not matters of "convenience and transient popular opinion." It seems strange indeed that you think forbidding the use of contraceptives is core Gospel doctrine (though scripture never mentions it), but that "the dignity and rights ... of lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgendered people and of women" is not at the core of Christian belief. I think you should go deeper and look to final things: "the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels" (Mat 13:39). Jesus was perfectly clear about allowing the good seed to grow along with weeds until angels-- not you or I or the pope-- separate the one from the other in due time. Isn't it presumptuous to think you have the wisdom to know how to sift and winnow and separate and exclude when the Gospel calls these the work of angels?

Gearoid4 obviously accepts the "written" word of the old testament which is full of fire,brimstone and mayhem which would not be acceptable by the majority of Catholics today.You're out of touch with modern beliefs and living in an fools world of archaic beliefs.

The fascist CDF "the child of the inquisition" is continuing it's purge of liberal thought in the church.Smhrck5s is showing weakness in accepting without analyses every little crumb fed to him by the fascist CDF.

@Eiriamach, Well, as I've explained, changes have been implemented in the mainline protestant churches, based on Tony Flannery's recipe, with a resultant catastrophic fall in terms of influence and adherents. It looks like these changes bought into the "spirt" of the age rather than the Holy Spirit of all ages. My glove metaphor is apt, as conforming to worldly values which are shaped by convenience and transient popular opinion betrays the permanent teachings which illuminate the gospels. The Church cannot change Her core teachings bequeathed to Her by Christ with the mandate to "bind"(accept) and "loose"(reject) doctrinal positions and practices. The priesthood is based firmly on the Person of Jesus Christ who chose 12 male apostles as his first generation of close disciples. The teaching on artificial contraception is based on it's immoral breaking of the mutual, loving self-giving between a husband and a wife and it's anti-life repercussions. The Church condemns all insults and physical attacks against people of same-sex attraction but holds that homosexual acts are intrinsically immoral as they go against the natural ontological reality that sex was designed for.

Hey-ho - here we go again. The vatican, the CDF, the Pope cannot silence the truth, only those who seek to tell the truth. And the proof of that is the revalations that have come to light across the world about the church's management of paedophile clerics and the damage they have caused. Has it not even occurred to the most loyal and obedient of catholics that no one can silence God's truth? So, let the CDF continue on its merry and destructive way. God is truth, not man!!

If you want to be a Baptist, or a Methodist, or Episcopal, then go be one. For myself, I choose to remain in communion with the one true Church, and strive, usually failing but always striving, to keep with the Church's traditions and teachings. The Church shouldn't have to change to make it easier for me to indulge my weaknesses. I've never considered myself bigger or more important than the Church.

Gearoid4, Fr Flannery has NOT disputed any doctrine. In his concern for justice and to stem the exodus of Catholics from the Body of Christ, he raised perennial issues of Church tradition and discipline. For this--challenging autocratic male authoritarianism (a core RC "tradition")-- the CDF silenced him. The institution that cannot change its dysfunctional traditions and act on new revelation is dying or already-dead. What you call "core Christian teachings" are nowhere to be found in the words of Jesus but only proclaimed by popes faithful forever to human forebears and blind to the revealed needs of humanity. Your glove-in-the-mud metaphor mistakes the dynamics of change. If the gains won for oppressed groups through secular politics and without RC help look like "mud" to you, consider: Each of those gains was COUNTER-cultural, an idea blowing in the wind, and not in any way a capitulation to the culture of the times, yet each has utterly transformed the culture it challenged. As EC Bishop Andrus remarked, “The recognition of the dignity and rights, within civil society and the Church, of lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgendered people and of women is as core to our proclamation of the Gospel as our solidarity with the poor, with victims of violence and political oppression, and with the Earth.” And he added, as though in solidarity with Fr. Flannery, "we will not be silenced in our proclamation of God’s inclusion.”

he could be another marin luther - might catch

Regardless of how one feels about Father Flannery, no organization should present someone with papers, which contradict a position, and expect him/her to sign them. My response would be "Don't put words into my mouth", and I would then tear up the statement I was expected to sign! For those who forgot, Martin Luther tore up, then burned the Papal Bull of Excommunication. This was dramiticaly presented in the movie "Luther", staring Stacey Keach.

There is a phrase which is not well known, but describes the effects of making the Church conform to the world as against society embracing the well-reasoned morals of the Church-"when you drop your glove in the mud, it is never the mud that gets glovey". We have seen the ill-effects of changing core Christian teachings to suit the current popular agenda, as in the steep decline across all the mainline protestant ecclesial communities in the US and Western world, in terms of influence and adherents.