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E-mailIrish public divided over controversial mosque debate
Published Saturday, August 28, 2010, 8:23 AM
Updated Sunday, August 29, 2010, 8:34 AM
This aerial photo of April 20, 2010, shows the New York city block, lower right, where a 13-story Islamic center is planned for construction two blocks north of the World Trade Center site, center left. The plan for the $100 million Islamic cultural center received initial support on Wednesday, May 5, 2010 from community board 1 in Lower Manhattan. (AP Photo/Mark Lennihan)
Irish people are divided by the decision to allow a mosque to be built close to the site of Ground Zero, according to the latest Irish Times Poll.
The poll conducted on Thursday posed the question “Should an Islamic cultural centre be constructed close to the site of Ground Zero?”
The results surprised many with 49% voting for and 51% against.
Some participants were extremely adamant in their views.
Unwavering Mary in Dublin thinks the mosque should go ahead: “Would anyone like to guess how many Muslims have been killed in Iraq since 911? No one knows but its hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children. Let them have their mosque.”
Barbara in the United States spoke about the proximity of the mosque: “I have to wonder, if the proposed sight is 'too close' then how far away is 'far enough' - New Jersey? Maybe there's a need for such a community center in the neighborhood and these particular Muslims are the only ones willing to build one?”
Meanwhile Margaret in Ireland believes that currently there are more than enough mosques in New York City: “No. It seems everyone’s cultural sensitivities are paramount except those of Americans. This is in very bad taste indeed. There are 20 mosques in New York, more than enough to serve the existing Muslim population. I would question the motivation of the people behind this.”
Last week, Irish American families who had lost loved ones in the September 11th attacks spoke out against the proposed building of the mosque and community center.
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Posted by Madeleine on Aug 30, 2010, 06:02 PM EDTNewrone: in all honesty, I don't know much about your problems here with the Catholics, I know you had problems and you had the IRA so I can't reply to that but you have to equate Muslims with terrorists, even moderate muslims do that, they were Muslim terrorists who bombed the WTC, did you think they were scotch? They also bombed the Pentagon, and crashed the plane in Shanksville , Pa with 40 or 50 people aboard and the terrorists, they were Mus0lims and a Mosque was built on that spot. They bombed the pentagon, they were muslims, in Times Square, he was a Muslim, American born, Fort hood , this muslim was in the army and killed 14 people and wounded more, he was a muslim, thats why we blame them. When someone from Norway does it we will call them Norwegian terrorists OK? I dont' think thats being unresonable. No one cares why they are doing it , only that they are here in the USA doing it. Obama is funding money for them to restore all of their old crumbling mosques all over the middle East beacause he wants the world to know they have a culture, we know that, he is also taking our tax dollars to fund this WTC mosque, he is just rubbing our nose in it. They will get their Mosque, Obama doesn't care what Americans say, for the first time in History he turned in America to the UN for several issues ,said we are bad on human rights, so China and Korea and Cameroon etc. are going to scrutinize us. people with a history of the worst human rights in the world are going to be weighing in on us.
Posted by Searlit on Aug 30, 2010, 10:09 AM EDT
I like reading what you Irish have to say about this controversy. I'm not judgmental. You can call it woman's intuition, or a gut feeling, if you like. Maybe it comes from watching the Twin Towers go down on TV, as it happened, or maybe it was seeing what was left of the, still burning, WTC, from JFK airport. We waited four hours in line, seeing that image, before we boarded the first flight to Dublin, after the airports re-opened. We never flew out of JFK before, we were supposed to fly out of Logan, but it wasn't clear we would be able to get on a flight from either airport, at all, until the morning we were due to leave. It was a terrible sad feeling flying out of NYC that night, but when we got to Ireland everyone was so kind to us. They were having a day of mourning, and we were among a very few Americans over there, at the time. We Irish-Americans appreciate your interest. I don't want to see any of the damaged buildings used for an interpretation center, too many of us feel it signifies something other than peace. Put it in a building that was not damaged by the attack, I might even go there, to hear what moderate Muslims are trying to say.
Posted by longislander1940 on Aug 29, 2010, 11:44 PM EDT
This is called "respect" for our murdered friends, parents, children and guest. We are not talking about IRA violence in Ireland. We have too many freedoms that foreigners take advantage of. People are not saying do not build it, but build it somewhere else. Dont throw your Muslem mosque in our face. This is a New York City problem not a world problem.
Posted by Newrone on Aug 29, 2010, 09:09 PM EDT
How can anyone be so twisted as to equate a mosque and "the Muslims" with terrorism?
Were Catholic churches to blame for the worst of IRA violence? Come on! This kind of senseless xenophobia is frightening - for Americans as a whole.
Posted by patrick1945 on Aug 29, 2010, 07:20 PM EDT
Build the Mosque there if you want a permanent reminder or symbol to the American people of terrorism, the Islamic connection and all round ill-feelings towards Muslims. No mater what you call it, the American people will always refer to it as "The Ground Zero Mosque" and just as the Statue Of Liberty stands for freedom, the Ground Zero Mosque will be a big Zero and stand for Islamic Terrorism in the minds of the majority of New Yorkers and Americans. Build it elsewhere and heal wounds and gain in respect for Muslims.
Posted by Sybil Meindl on Aug 29, 2010, 05:08 PM EDT
Out of respect for the people who were killed on 9/11, the mosque should not be built. The American people living in the US and in New York City should decide the fate of the mosque. That is their concern and their sorrow. They should know what is the rigth thing to do.
Posted by eiregirl on Aug 29, 2010, 03:39 PM EDT
Really, has the Irish Times NOTHING else to write about other than taking a poll on an issue 3000 miles away. The Irish population really don't care, and frankly this media driven conservatism is a non issue in a democratic society. PLEASE DROP THIS STORY. You all can watch 60 mins tonight and get some real answers from the people involved.
Posted by Madeleine on Aug 29, 2010, 03:26 PM EDT
According to author , Steve Emerson, there are 100 Mosque in NY although there seems to be one on every corner. 9-11 was awful and even worse they are still finding body parts , bits and pieces. I think the Muslims should have accepted other properties they were offered but since this is a victory mosque to them, such as the one in Shanksville Pa. on the site of the crash of the jet plane with almost 2oo people on board, they have a big one there, they also have a mosque 4 blocks away from the WTC. I really don't care if they build one there or not, its not on top of the actual WTC, if it were then I would protest. Let them have it, they won't be here long enough to enjoy it. I would really like to know why so many Muslims are being brought into this country, 100,000 a month in some sort of frenzy to get all muslims here to the US? why is that? Everyone has unfavorable things to say about us but everyone wants to come here. They are running to America, we are not running to the middle east or anywhere else. If they don't like America stay home. Now Obama has us funding the mosques all over the world and also we will be funding the WTC Mosque with public funds as well. He also just let the bombers of the USSCole go free, they killed 17 US Sailors and injured about 40 and now they are free ot do it again. Good thing Obama isn't a muslim, we would really be in trouble eh? This is what happens when your congress and Senate just sit around doing nothing and the Marxists take over. The Muslims are now giving out free school supplies to kids in Upstate NY,and the schools are accepting them, what next, that is the question???
Posted by JimThompson on Aug 29, 2010, 02:33 PM EDT
I accept the idea of freedom of speech and expression but I do not accept the fact that Muslems can build a mosque so close to our memorial area as it smacks of thumbing their respective noses at the U. S. and says that they can damage the U.S. and then glorify what they did by building a huge symbol of their antri-American and their anti-Christian and their anti-Jewish feelings and actions
Posted by JamesMurphy on Aug 29, 2010, 01:50 PM EDT
Oh dear, hasn't this non-story gone away yet? Please, let's talk about something important, something that matters.
Posted by dan Breen on Aug 29, 2010, 01:39 PM EDT
WHY DID AMERICA GO INTO IRAQ AND FIGHT FOR ALL THOSE muslims ?
Posted by WARDY09 on Aug 29, 2010, 01:26 PM EDT
1st of all its 2 blocks from ground zero and 2ndly its has nothing to do with the irish,its for the people of NY to decide.So stay out of it Paddys...
Posted by KMcSinger on Aug 29, 2010, 01:20 PM EDT
Of course the center should be allowed, but since feelings are running so high, the people building it should think again. Why build somewhere where you're not wanted?
Posted by boomerbob on Aug 29, 2010, 11:57 AM EDT
As long as we continue to divide over religion, we'll have hate and wars. This is the way it's been for thousands upon thousands of years. Religious beliefs remain to be the most divisive concepts among all ancient and modern cultures. Our belief systems segregate us, make us suspicious of one another, provide a reason to ostracize and demonize others and ultimately give us a reason to hate and kill one another.
Ireland is a perfect example of decades of division along the Catholic/Protestant religious lines in their fight for independence. The entire Earth is now divided primarily amongst Christians and Muslims.
Until the people of the world wake up and rid ourselves of these insidious, conflicting belief systems, we’ll continue to hate, kill and be enslaved to a sham perpetrated upon us by those who profit from our naiveté and willingness to take beliefs to a level far above anything else we as humans cherish.
Politicians (and papal leaders) have learned all too well the reactionary nature of the human mind and how to manipulate it, as did Herman Goebbels with his PR machine, to manipulate crowds to move en mass towards the politician's desires, most often against one another in favor of the wealthy elite. Goebbels convinced an entire nation that they were the supreme human being and no others deserved to occupy the Earth with them and he convinced them deeply. Even hundreds of years earlier, The Inquisition wherein Pope Innocent III (what a name for a murderer) and Pope Gregory IX hunted down those who dare spoke out against the beliefs of The Church.
Religions are not our saviors, but our downfall. “Divide and Conquer,” or at least divide and control using what is now referred to as the Asch Paradigm.
Posted by DeaconJack on Aug 29, 2010, 11:05 AM EDT
No one seems to ask the Paddys,(cops)how they get traffic around all the bodies blocking the streets and intersections in downtown during the call for prayer. One then gets the full scale of too many mosques in too little space.
Posted by S7McCabe on Aug 29, 2010, 10:59 AM EDT
I have a question. Do you know how many people in Iraq were murdered and maimed under the Saddam Dictatorship? There was a genocide of the Kurds for one. So, that comment was down right short sighted at the lease amd stupid at worst. It is difficult for me to believe anyone with a drop of Irish blood would think like that.
Posted by rcrdskpr@aol.com on Aug 29, 2010, 10:45 AM EDT
there is already a mosque 2 blocks away. this is DOWNTOWN manhattan, all businesses, no housing. this may wind up a no-go anyway---no money. how would you irishers like a monument to english protestants celebrating the winning of ulster or the battle of the boyne in downtwon dublin. methinks you wouldnt like it much. read your history, islam is not a religion of peace. the muslim imans preach with the quoran in one hand a sword in the other, and a suicide vest strapped to some poor individual who is mentally challenged.
Posted by maryosullivan on Aug 29, 2010, 09:42 AM EDT
This learning center is permitted under the Constitution,
Opinion poll, pickets or mindless Glen Beck followers do not change this. This ease with which a large portion of the U.S. population is herded behind this or any other self-serving position taken up the Tea Party and its handlers is truly concerning
population is herdeded
Posted by Liamkeyes on Aug 29, 2010, 09:37 AM EDT
This is a tough one. While I am very aware that not so long ago on the pages of History there were signs at places of employment and even in the newspapers "No Irish Need Apply" ergo No Catholics need apply. At the end of the day, I strongly feel that the location for the proposed Mosque is a little too close to the World Trade Centre. I would have no objection if they moved the proposed Mosque and Community Center six or seven more blocks away, it's just a wee bit too close for comfort.
Posted by erieshark on Aug 29, 2010, 09:35 AM EDT
I think your readers spend too much time listening to hate talk radio. The project in question is an Islamic Center that has yet to raise any real dollars, it is two blocks away in densely populated NY City, it is close to a strip joint (does that too denigrate the site?), and it is headed by a moderate Islamic cleric.
Further the Ground Zero site sits barren. Why not worry more about what is not there?
Posted by borefield on Aug 29, 2010, 09:03 AM EDT
Mary from Dublin should go and live in a Muslim country and see how she would be treated as a woman. Margaret is right on target, everyone's clutural sensitivities are given full consideration except Americans. This is still our country, (for how long is anyones guess) that was fought hard for to gain our freedom, seems everyone is reaping the benefits from that fight except The Americans. Wake up people.
Posted by LilSuzyQ on Aug 28, 2010, 08:24 PM EDT
Living in the US myself, all I can think is if they build this mosque, no matter the right or the wrong, there is so much hate about it all, then it will surely be targeted for violence by some extremeist group and more people will be injured or killed. Why risk it? Build it somewhere that will not incur the wrath of crazies and all will be good.
Posted by DennisQ on Aug 28, 2010, 04:56 PM EDT
The Archdiocese of New York has already displayed cowardice in the face of religious bigotry. St. Margaret Mary parish in Staten Island had agreed to sell a former convent to the Muslim American Society for them to build a mosque. But after community protest, the church rescinded the offer. The convent is still up for sale, and the archdiocese is out $750,000.
Archbishop Dolan hasn't shown much character in allowing religious bigots to prevail. Maybe he's a different kind of spiritual leader from previous leaders of the New York Archdiocese. Cardinal O'Connor wasn't afraid of protest marches - like Timothy Mahoney in Los Angeles, he led them!
It's a mistake to give in to this crowd; they're a bad lot. Anti-Muslim demonstrations are getting uglier and more violent. It will soon be impossible having to take a moral stand on the issue of religious freedom. Unless the Catholic Church is tacitly endorsing the collective guilt of Muslims for the attacks on September 11th, it's certainly not leading by example. Instead, Michael Bloomberg, the political leader of New York, is showing the Archbishop what it means to stand up for principle.
Archbishop Dolan hasn't shown much character in allowing religious bigots to prevail. Maybe he's a different kind of spiritual leader from previous leaders of the New York Archdiocese. Cardinal O'Connor wasn't afraid of protest marches - like Timothy Mahoney in Los Angeles, he led them!
It's a mistake to give in to this crowd; they're a bad lot. Anti-Muslim demonstrations are getting uglier and more violent. It will soon be impossible having to take a moral stand on the issue of religious freedom. Unless the Catholic Church is tacitly endorsing the collective guilt of Muslims for the attacks on September 11th, it's certainly not leading by example. Instead, Michael Bloomberg, the political leader of New York, is showing the Archbishop what it means to stand up for principle.
Posted by haikued2 on Aug 28, 2010, 03:24 PM EDT
Comment on GeorgeDillon's comment...so what George, they are simply expressing their opinion, as you have as well.
Next: The mosque in NYC. If some radical Presbyterians came into your neighborhood and killed many of your neighborhood friends and family, would you welcome a Presbyterian church being built on the next block? Oh, you are tolerant of other religions: well, if a sizable number of Presbyterians rejoiced at the destruction in your neighborhood and the killing of your friends and family, would you have a few qualms about their "right" to build a church on the next block??? I suspect so. Unless, of course you don't really have a clue what is going on in the world.
Posted by jacersisityourself on Aug 28, 2010, 03:22 PM EDT
Yes, the Irish would be divided on the Issue. They don’t know who to believe anymore – Church, Political or Secularist leaders, never mind. Frankly, I think there are no worthwhile leaders around these days. Everybody waiting on everybody else to see what to do next... In England, the issue is very alive and divisive as demonstrated in Bradford today. The English Defence League held a counter-demonstration against the mainly Muslim Unite Against Fascism/We Are Bradford who are calling for recognition to be what they are - Muslims in England (a land that is not theirs; they are mainly of Pakistani Muslim origin). Read on (– extracted from latest reports): “EDL supporters threw bottles, cans, stones and a smoke bomb at opponents gathered in Bradford, West Yorkshire. Police moved the public away for their own safety as missiles sailed over a temporary 8ft high barricade separating the two groups congregating at the Urban Gardens. Opponents of the EDL, Unite Against Fascism/We Are Bradford, met about half a mile away at the Crown Court Plaza to hold an alternative static demonstration.... buses began bringing EDL supporters from towns and cities including Hull, Merseyside, Manchester, Stoke, Southport, Dudley, Wigan and Stockport. ... Chanting "give us our country back" and holding signs saying "no more mosques" and "no to Sharia (law)", the EDL protesters were soon pushed back by police. One EDL member, a Muslim called Abdul Salaam, (Yep, you read that right; Muslims have even infiltrated the EDL) said: "Why are they against the United Kingdom? Islam doesn't teach you hatred, it teaches you peace. These people are hypocrites, they are not true Muslims." I dare say it won’t be long before the location of the near-Ground Zero Islamic centre will be the scene of similar protests... and that they willspread to the other parts of NYC's mosques.
Posted by GeorgeDillon on Aug 28, 2010, 09:44 AM EDT
You must realize that people who vote in Irish Times online polls have too much time on their hands and not enough friends to talk to. I wouldn't take it seriously regardless of the result.
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