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Dublin Archbishop tells lapsed Catholics to leave the Catholic Church

Now enough to just attend weddings, baptisms say church leaders

DARA KELLY,

IrishCentral.com Staff Writer

Published Sunday, December 11, 2011, 7:17 AM

Updated Sunday, December 11, 2011, 10:26 AM

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129 Comments

Catholic priests will be expecting a firmer commitment from church-goers.

Photo by Guardian

The Archbishop of Dublin is telling lapsed Catholics to leave the church, reports the Irish Independent.

As rising numbers of Catholics only show up at church for sacraments like baptism and marriage, the Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is urging non-believers to have the maturity to walk away.

In the new documentary 'Would You Believe,' priests reveal they will expect a firmer commitment from church-goers.

"It requires maturity on those people who want their children to become members of the church community and maturity on those people who say 'I don't believe in God and I really shouldn't be hanging on to the vestiges of faith when I don't really believe in it,'" said Archbishop Martin.

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The church believes that a la carte Catholics have picked and chosen which Catholic rituals to get involved with but Martin says the church will expect a far fuller commitment in the future.

The documentary shows how celebratory occasion such as weddings and baptisms attract huge numbers while regular mass attendance has dropped.

Fr Michael Drumm, from the Catholic Schools Parnership, also said the church would be getting stricter with requirements for parents who want their children baptized Catholic.

'Would You Believe' will be shown on RTE One on Sunday night.

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129 Comments

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jacersagain | Dec 17, 2011, 07:46 PM EST

This has been an interesting debate to follow... one which I stayed out of 'til ‘cos I knew it would have streams of anti-Catholic abuse posted and a few die-hard faithful Catholics rightfully illuminating the sadly lacking knowledge of the abusers. The debate also has the internecine characteristics of people of both sides and of ‘in-betweeners’ displaying doubts as to the rightness or wrongness of each others’ points... the “I know better”... or the “maybe I’m not so sure now” crowds. My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that not one single RCC attacker has made a single sensible or spiritual reasoning for anyone not to be a member of the true RCC. And I will take this liberty to tell you why.... The poster going by the name of mairint said the most sensibly truthful thing in this whole debate. People like Geroid4, or our oul’ fervent Catholic friend George Dillon, doesn’t need to back up or put a patch on what mairint said. People should re-read what mairint posted... it speaks the whole truth of what many are seeking or missing. Find it in the huge truth of words of what mairint posted from Australia on Dec 13th at 7.54pm EST. Re-read that post. May our God be with you as you do...

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barneyjo | Dec 16, 2011, 06:56 PM EST

@GeorgeDillon - Attack? what attack? My last post was an earnest attempt that I do actually have a rationale for thinking the way I do about my faith and my church. The use of upper-case characters is to underpin those feelings that have been aroused by the scandals that have come to light in a Body of which I have been a life long member. That is not to say that I cannot and do not take issue with your posts in their tone and content. You have your view of the world and that is fine; but it is not necessarily and totally my view also. The assertion "I'm right, you're wrong - get over it" will not assuage the concerns of many who are in your own words "blinded by hate" If there are those who are blinded by hate for the church, then there is a reason for that which is not so simplistic as you might suggest. In my over emphasis of my anger over the treatment of clerical abuse victims by the church, I seek to articulate a viewpoint; MY viewpoint which has been informed by own thought and reflection based on evidence which has come to light. I do not seek to attack anyone. I cnnnot attack you as I have never walked in your shoes in your life. I have long since learned the lesson that "Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread" but for myself only, and for no-one else!!

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GeorgeDillon | Dec 15, 2011, 03:37 PM EST

barneyjo: That is a very unfair and dishonest attack on me, but I will not respond in kind. I did not have you in mind when referring to the bigoted and vulgar and downright liars who have filled these columns. People like the oposter celticfour who alleges that the church charges 50 grand for a wedding. People like that are imbeciles, blinded by hate, and there are lots more posting here. You on the other hand appear to be a member of the Catholic faithful who has been horrified by the actions of some Catholic clergy and scandalized by the failure of those in authority to excise these malefactors from the body of the Church and see to it that they never again had a chance to prey on the innocent. That perhaps is a fair description of you--it is certainly a description of me.

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warlocks | Dec 15, 2011, 01:18 AM EST

Maybe its High Time the Roman Catholic Church leave Ireland.and Bishop Martin also. he has some nerve . We have put up with the likes of his kind long enough. We need to bring back the Church of Ireland and God . Not the Political Corrupt money Mad Vipers & Sinners of the Vatican.

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barneyjo | Dec 14, 2011, 06:13 PM EST

@GeorgeDillon - I know that I, for one, am neither a Bigot,nor am I vulgar, as I know I would never seek to be. And no matter how many times you say that I am, I still will be neither bigoted or vulgar. In the light of what I now know about what was done within the Catholic Church, here in Ireland, and elsewhere to deliberately conceal the existence of broken lives,broken minds, broken bodies, and broken souls ostensibly in MY NAME, you will not be surprised that I have taken a long hard look at myself and my attitudes to my faith. I am still a Catholic; a practicing catholic; BUT ONE WHO IS TOTALLY SCANDALISED AND AFFRONTED BY THE LIES, DECEIT AND DOUBLE STANDARDS SHOWN BY THOSE IN AUTHORITY, WHO, EVEN YET REMAIN IN DENIAL ABOUT THE DAMAGE DONE TO COUNTLESS PEOPLE THROUGH THEIR MINISTRY. And when I reflect on this like now, IT MAKES ME VERY ANGRY TO THINK THAT SO MANY CLERICS TOOK LICENCE UPON THEMSELVES, OSTENSIBLY IN MY NAME (and yours) TO SHIELD THIS UNSPEAKABLE HORROR FROM SIGHT. Now, if you wish to gloss my anger as bigotry and vulgarity, hey thats fine; go ahead. However do so in the knowledge that it will not change or alter what has happend. And that is that God has and is calling "time" on the clerical Catholic Church and those in stewardship over it. And knowing what I know now, I can only welcome that!!!!

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eiriamach | Dec 14, 2011, 06:08 PM EST

Irish Catholics who are interested in a less Roman, more Celtic Church might find out about the ACP plans. It's not clear to me yet, but the priests seem to be moving in the direction of less "authority" and hierarchy in church structure and more Christianity. From the ACP web site, 4 Nov. 2011, "Assembly of the Irish Church": "At a meeting of the leadership team of the ACP on November 3rd we decided that we would initiate the process of organising an Assembly of the Irish Church. It will take place at a Dublin venue on May 1st next. We will welcome the cooperation of other groups, lay or religious, in this project. If you, as an individual or representing some group, would like to be involved would you please contact us. We aim to meet with interested parties sometime in January to plan the details of the event."

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GeorgeDillon | Dec 14, 2011, 04:13 PM EST

joemcullough: "Bring back the Celtic church!" --So why don't you and others like you start a Celtic Church? Instead of obsessing about the Catholic Church. And I promise you we Catholics won't obsess about your Celtic Church.

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GeorgeDillon | Dec 14, 2011, 04:10 PM EST

mairint: "It is hard to understand how rude- even dirty- language spills from so many of you. You do not sound intelligent Just snotty nosed and hate filled". Great post. What can we expect from bigots but bigotry, vulgarity and hate.

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GeorgeDillon | Dec 14, 2011, 04:07 PM EST

celticfour: "No more five thousand euro first Communions? No more fifty thousand euro weddings?" If you're claiming that Catholic priests charge these fees you're not just a liar, you're a lunatic.

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culchiewoman | Dec 14, 2011, 12:06 PM EST

@mairint: just another Church apologist on the issue of the raping and abuse (torture) of children, part of the misled 'sheeple' -- no worries, your day will come and perhaps somehow you'll manage to pull your head out of either the sand or your arse. Hope it's not too late for you.

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culchiewoman | Dec 14, 2011, 12:04 PM EST

Would that they could leave. But the Dublin diocese took away the only legal process by which former Catholics could irrevocably depart the church. So what now, Martin?

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barneyjo | Dec 14, 2011, 05:38 AM EST

@mairint - "The ingratitude and the sleep of my ministers increase the agony for me. They badly respond to my love! The greater torment for me is that these people add their contempt to their indifference and disbelief. How many times my wrath was to strike them like lightning, but I was stopped by the angels and the souls who love me" (Taken from the Apparitions of Padre (Now Saint) Pio of Pietrelcina)Was he one of the "MOB" as well???

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helmet365 | Dec 14, 2011, 05:12 AM EST

Iam for the the latter.

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helmet365 | Dec 13, 2011, 10:19 PM EST

Generally the Trad catholic has a closed mind and incapable of new thought, stuck in an ancient world of fear and guilt. That is the state of mind the church wants you to be in for control. New church menbers will have a mind of their own paticularly the young and not as enslaved. Things are improving. It will require more time for these Trad catholic fossils (clerics an laity) to move on. Darwins theory of evolution in action.

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helmet365 | Dec 13, 2011, 09:33 PM EST

Trad catholic you say and the Church is doing well in many places around the world. Africa of course is the main area where you insist on your no contraception rules and watch the innocent die in the thousands from aids. You must be proud of yourselves. They will wake up some day to the reality you are only spitting on their path. Follow the sheep and you will become enslaved.

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