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De Valera’s grandson challenges Vatican embassy closure

O Cuiv claims decision related to Church-State row over Cloyne Report

CATHAL DERVAN,

IrishCentral.com Staff Writer

Published Sunday, November 6, 2011, 8:38 AM

Updated Monday, November 7, 2011, 11:42 AM

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The Vatican

A leading politician has called on Enda Kenny to come clean on the decision to close Ireland’s embassy at the Vatican.

Fianna Fail deputy leader Eamon O Cuiv has claimed that the closure is linked to the government’s recent row with the Holy See.

Now O Cuiv, grandson of former Irish President Eamon de Valera, has joined the debate and challenged Kenny and his government to tell the truth.

“The decision to close the Irish Embassy to the Holy See in the Vatican was purely a political one and the Government should have the guts to say that is what it was,” said O Cuiv.

“It is nonsense to insist it was not a political decision, and it was most definitely not a fiscal decision.”

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Foreign Affairs Minister Eamon Gilmore stated publicly last week that cost cutting measures are the only reason why the embassy will shut down early next year.

Gilmore has said that the government will save almost a million dollars by closing the facility in the Vatican. The embassy in Tehran and a consulate in East Timor are also to close.

Religious leaders in Ireland and Rome have slammed the decision to end diplomatic relations with the Vatican however as relations worsen between Church and State after a series of child sex abuse scandals.

The Pope himself is said to have been annoyed by the announcement, just months after the Vatican’s row with Prime Minister Enda Kenny over the Cloyne report into clerical sex abuse in the Cork diocese.

Nster.com

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2BorNot2B | Nov 10, 2011, 02:48 AM EST

PROTESTANT ABUSE --- Has the priestly pledge of celibacy contributed to a pattern of inappropriate and exploitative sex by Catholics? Probably. But a look at the behavior of politicians and Protestant ministers -- even just those iceberg tips that actually emerge into daylight -- should tell us that celibacy is a small part of the story. The reality is that power is arousing for many male humans (and that male power and status are arousing for many females). The pattern is plain as day in Hollywood dramas, rape statistics, sexual fantasies, D.C. dramas, and clergy sex abuse. (Where is the university research on the topic?) And yet we continue to delude ourselves that Protestant ministers are somehow exempt from the endemic, that the incidents are isolated. We say that "absolute power corrupts absolutely," and yet we give ministers a level of deference that is unparalleled -- and expect our vulnerable children to do the same. -- Valerie Tarico..... http://clergygonewild.com/sex-abuse/34-child-abuse

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2BorNot2B | Nov 10, 2011, 02:31 AM EST

PROTESTANT ABUSE -- The perception that Catholic priests are overrepresented among offenders is correct. They do offend at a higher rate. BUT because this country is predominantly Protestant, MORE CHILDREN ARE ABUSED BY PROTESTANT MINISTERS THAN BY CATHOLIC PRIESTS. **** In 1990, the Freedom from Religion Foundation issued a study on pedophilia by clergy. At that time, two clergy per week were being arrested in North America for sex crimes against children. 58% of them were Protestant. ---- Why then do we largely overlook the horrific pattern of Protestant pedophilia and sexual exploitation? Here are a few factors to consider: ****•The Catholic Church is easier to think of as a monolithic entity. That means it is easier for the press to cohere the abuse incidents into a single story and our brains to grok it. The idea of one big conspiracy appeals to us: "The Church" did it and then covered it up. ****The centralized hierarchy of Catholicism makes Catholic offenders easier to sue and guarantees deep pockets. The lawsuits in turn both generate their own news cycle and bring victims out of the closet. ****Since most Americans are Protestants, the Catholic sex abuse scandal is a story about "them." Protestant Pedophilia is a story about "us," which makes it less gratifying and more uncomfortable.**** Most Americans find the idea of celibacy peculiar at best. It makes for a more interesting narrative than a generic story about abuse of authority. (continues..)

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2BorNot2B | Nov 09, 2011, 04:47 PM EST

PROTESTANT ABUSE: ***One of the most striking aspects of the Protestant clergy sex abuse pattern is that most people don't realize it is a pattern. The Catholic Church has taken a well deserved beating in the courts and in the court of public opinion as former altar boys, orphans and ordinary parishioners come forward with appalling stories of sex abuse. Yet equally egregious violations by Protestant clergy fail to generate the same level of outrage. Why? You might answer that the problems in the Catholic Church are uniquely widespread, but that would be the wrong answer. Last week's Eddie Long scandal, in which one of the nation's most politically connected and homophobic mega-ministers was accused of strong-arming gay sex out of teens, was just one tip of an ENORMOUS Protestant iceberg. The news monthly Freethought Today has a regular feature called "Black Collar Crime Blotter," typically a two-page sampler of fraud, theft, and sexual abuse taken from the media across the country. They just turned their archive over to the Kinsey Institute. A website called ClergyGoneWild.com provides links to recent crime stories, including child abuse (206 articles) and internet solicitation (18).(continues..)

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2BorNot2B | Nov 09, 2011, 04:27 PM EST

PROTESTANT-ABUSE-SUFFERING-MASSES.com ---- And you thought those self-righteous proddy prigs were clean from abuse and cover up??? News to ya... neither they nor any other organization (religious, public, private) or gov't dependency can lay claim to 'squeaky clean.' Didya hear about the U of PA and JoPa's abuser protégé for ONLY 15 YEARS? -- Here's looking at Rom 3:10 for the bible thumpers, those self-anointed anti-Cath preacher/ranters on these who blogs can't let up about "CATHOLICS ONLY!!" So, bottoms up, as the proddy abusing clergy would demand of their victims! --- Following, some eye openers for those inclined to think they can accrue 'converts' for their piddly and fractious sects with their tales of woe; and this from the libtard über-rag HuffPoo, no less! --- Shame to those deluded ones honed on the Catholic mote ONLY and haven’t looked at the LOG on the prot eye. Shame also on those who get their info from this IC rag only. On this particular subject, there's a whole web out there looking for your discriminating eye-balls.

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solyeant | Nov 08, 2011, 02:20 PM EST

Like many other governments in these pressed times the search for waste is on If Enda kenny wants waste removed let's have a declaration of all the expenses and then we can decide those which are to be removed France today decided to float the subject of the removal of 23 embassy There is one embassy they want to remove in Strasborg but even the irish don't want to remove this one Strange really if the cost for the French is too high and not for ireland Then the French have another embassy for Disputes in Africa This would never happen i ireland or does it I suspect when the knives for cost cutting are brought out they should not be put away until the full compliment of officine and domestic charges are pruned to the quick and sold off to help the real needy. We live in a world where teleconferencing and virtual presence is the order of the day Ireland could save billions by selling the Dail premises and having virtual conferences every weekend and more people could take part See my suggestions for parliamentary democracy both in ireland and the European parliament on my site. or just imagine its all free for the poor elector

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IrelandNorth | Nov 07, 2011, 08:14 AM EST

The closure of the Irish embassy to the Holy See is the first installment to the Queen of England for a reunited Ireland. Ian Paisley, (now Lord somebody or other) said that Ulster unionists would accept a united Ireland under the Queen. Hence her historic visit to 'Eire' last May.

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ciarajoyce | Nov 07, 2011, 01:10 AM EST

I think closing the embassy in Tehran is not a good idea. Iran has isolated itself and it's worth the money to keep some communications open with the Persians. Closing the embassy in Vatican City when there's one down the road in Rome proper is sensible. If Ireland decides not to close it, look for the Pope to toss Ireland out for picking on those poor priests. All they did was rape a few boys, and what's the harm in that? It's not like they had sex with a woman! If de Valera hadn't wrapped up the Republic so tightly with Rome, things in Ireland would be a lot more pleasant, at least for small boys and women.

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Searlit | Nov 06, 2011, 06:19 PM EST

Glad to have you with me McNamara31. I can't imagine a higher service than protecting children.

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mandrake | Nov 06, 2011, 06:10 PM EST

Have they now started calling my country Eire again. When did this happen and why? Answers on the back of a postcard please Portia.

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cillowen | Nov 06, 2011, 05:48 PM EST

Dev's kin what a turn for their England's Greatest Spy ancestor a Converso who used Ireland South as a breadbasket and as a manpower resource to serve Ireland's Saxon Master. Same guy who set up Collins for the kill then began his exterminating campaign and triggered the Irish Civil War. So called Hitler lover, worked magic for his tribe (who pridefully proclaim he being one of them) which culminated in a homeland. His fellows highly regard and appreciate his actions during WWII - he is held in high regard for his part in Israel's founding. Who knew?

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cillowen | Nov 06, 2011, 05:45 PM EST

Dev's kin what a turn for their England's Greatest Spy ancestor a Converso who used Ireland South as a breadbasket and as a manpower resource which the Saxon Master. Same guy who set up Collins for the kill then began his exterminating campaign during the Civil War he caused. So called Hitler lover. worked magic for his tribe (who pridefully proclaim he being one of them) which culminated in a homeland. His fellows highly regard and appreciate his actions during WWII - he is held in high regard for his part in Israel's founding.

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Towngate | Nov 06, 2011, 03:17 PM EST

East Timor!!!????? How many more are there like this!? ... and is the Irish Foreign Minister going to take a pay cut now he has less embassies to run?

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McNamara31 | Nov 06, 2011, 02:01 PM EST

I'm with you Searlit, Boston needed a Enda Kenny back in 2002. Maybe things would have improved much earlier.

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Portia777 | Nov 06, 2011, 01:50 PM EST

SeamusMor"The relationship between Ireland and the Church goes back over fifteen centuries." Yes, it does. it began with BARBARIAN Roman men of God coming to conquer Eire- a sovereign people and to enslve it using murder, torture etc to convert the advanced civilisation to its patriarchal religion, demonising women and children and good men.Any cult that keeps its members in fear is a criminal organisation and must go. And you want to keep this cult in Eire?

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tocon1941 | Nov 06, 2011, 12:52 PM EST

Close the embassy and turn it into a pub...with "authentic" Irish music after 9pm...for the Yanks.

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