My Irish wife thought Americans loved liberty too much to accept the health care mandate
Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2012 at 05:00 AM
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There was an item about firefighters in Colorado not having health care. It was the typical network news lechh, with a plastic reporter not so much reporting as trying to grab us by the heartstrings. That sort of thing just gets my goat and I blurted out, "Oh gimme a break."
My wife started asking me questions about the the Colorado firefighters thinking I knew something about those who are fighting fires in Colorado and their health care issues. I don't. It was merely the reporter's tone that set me off, although I told my wife I doubted that the firefighters' tale was as straight-forward as NBC's talking emoticon made it seem.
I said that I thought this is NBC's way of providing more back-up for the new Health Care law in America. We got talking about the new law. I explained that I didn't understand all of it and went through a few of the provisions as I understood them.
I told her that people who were already sick or injured or whatever could not be denied health insurance. She didn't have much a problem with that one. I told her the government claims it will help control the costs of health care and health insurance, but "who knows? We have a lot of that here and costs seem to be exploding."
I mentioned that under the new law children could remain on their parents' policy til they were 26. That didn't phase her, although I find it odd that someone who's 25 can be considered a child.
Not a biggie, however.
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Read More:
Chief Justice John Roberts votes his Catholic conscience on Health Care bill -- One of six Catholics on court and a true lover of Ireland
Bill O’Reilly weighs in on Healthcare - says John Roberts decision on Obamacare was wrong
Ireland's health care example
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I then mentioned the individual mandate and my wife was stunned.
"You mean, even people who don't want health insurance are going to be forced to buy it?"
"Yup."
"Really? Surely that would be ruled out in court."
"No, the Supreme Court just ruled it was constitutional. It's the law of the land."
"I'm shocked by that. I didn't think Americans would stand for anything like that. They always give the impression of not liking it when the government intrudes in their lives. I'm really surprised that Americans are willing to put up with that."
My wife was sure Americans had more respect for individual liberty than that. "If people can be compelled to buy health insurance what can they not be compelled to do?" Indeed. Happy 4th of July. See more: 4th July
43 comments
abbym7180 | Jul 06, 2012, 02:20 PM EDT
Good point Ciaradexy ! There are a few good points to the healthcare law.1 you cannot be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition, 2. it will free up the emergency rooms which are generally packed,because a lot of people just sit there all day to see a doctor for non -emergency problems like the flu,because the don't have a primary doctor,because you generally have to have insurance to be seen at a regular office ! Very few doctors will just take you off the street without insurance-mine will but he's 80 and patients are hard to come by at his age. 3.I've heard that quite a few hospitals that bill you after treatment also send another bill to uncle sam,double billing,this law cuts that off.And medicaid ? that's hard to get if you're income level isn't rock bottom.And for the good news :insurance companies can no longer elect not cover the pill for women.It's about time.They've been covering viagra for the old guys for years . Cheers ! liberty!
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ciaradexy | Jul 06, 2012, 11:16 AM EDT
The Yank, I have a friend from Brooklyn who had a breakdown about 10 years ago. She was admitted to a hospital and had to declare bankruptcy soon after. At the age of 22! Thats not right!
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eiriamach | Jul 06, 2012, 10:18 AM EDT
The Yank says "the word 'equality' does not appear in the US Constitution" LOL! What was he celebrating on July 4--voter suppression laws? Article XIV (1868) 1. .... No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the ***equal*** protection of the laws. Article XV (1870) 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article.... Article XIX [1920] The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article.... These articles establish EQUALITY--equal rights--under the law, whether you like it or not Yank!
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CitizenWhy | Jul 06, 2012, 09:59 AM EDT
Please, every country with national health care imposes it on everyone in the form of a tax. Leaving people sick and dying is not a form of liberty. The individual mandate, like every tax, makes freeloaders pay their fair share. If people did not buy health care under the mandate they would end up using the health care system without having paid anything for it. People who already have a health insurance are not covered by the mandate. Think of the mandate as a freeloader tax. ... The firefighters do not have health insurance, but you dismiss this issue. ... The libertarian/laissez-faire capitalist system the wife seems to admire was the same system that brought the mass starvation to Ireland during the potato famine. ... And the religious right, who have moved tto that part of Colorado in droves, pushed their libertarian views so hard that they won the right to build housing developments in previously forbidden fire zones. That's why so many homes have been destroyed. Idiocy in the name of a false idea of liberty.
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bogsidebunny | Jul 06, 2012, 09:49 AM EDT
I bet the "Irish Wife" refuses to pay her €100 house levy too. Funny how people elect politicians to gain favours but when the same politicians try to take a little moola from them they're branded thieves, blackards and gombeenmen...It's the 2hypocrite" gene in action.
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maireadinmelb | Jul 06, 2012, 05:39 AM EDT
"We the people in order to form a more perfect union" seems like it wants to create a utopia!
The constitution like here in australia sets out laws to govern the government in an attempt to stop leaders getting too much power and changing the laws to retain power. Promoting equality of all peoples is an important function of all governments, hence laws requiring equality and prohibiting discrimination.
Australia has medical breakthroughs and a high standard of medical care one of teh worlds top childrens hospitals. Access to such amenities are based on your need not your wealth. THere are many americans who have been bankrupted by the costs of medical care.
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TheYank | Jul 06, 2012, 05:05 AM EDT
maireadinmelb,
The word "equality" does not appear in the Constitution. There is no constitutional imperative on the government to promote equality.
The constitution was designed by people who believed it best to limit government. They did not see it as government's role to create a Utopia.
It's because so many Americans can avail of the best that medicine has to offer that the system is so expensive. If it were truly available to "just the rich" the costs of the system would be as nothing.
The word "equality" does not appear in the Constitution. There is no constitutional imperative on the government to promote equality.
The constitution was designed by people who believed it best to limit government. They did not see it as government's role to create a Utopia.
It's because so many Americans can avail of the best that medicine has to offer that the system is so expensive. If it were truly available to "just the rich" the costs of the system would be as nothing.
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TheYank | Jul 06, 2012, 04:48 AM EDT
seanomelb
You might well be right. I know nothing about Australia's health care system.
What I don't understand about America's desire for a federal system is that there are as many health care models as there are states in the EU. Why can't the US have 50 different models?
You might well be right. I know nothing about Australia's health care system.
What I don't understand about America's desire for a federal system is that there are as many health care models as there are states in the EU. Why can't the US have 50 different models?
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maireadinmelb | Jul 05, 2012, 09:00 PM EDT
Getting back to the article, how can american's claim to love liberty when they allowed the Patriot Act?? Obama's policy is not a shot at liberty it is trying to make sure that the constitution is upheld by promoting equality for all!! ie treatment for illness should be available to all not just the rich!!
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seanomelb | Jul 05, 2012, 08:33 PM EDT
You would just love the Australian healthcare system.
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TheYank | Jul 05, 2012, 01:31 PM EDT
The tax/penalty is a minimum of $695, but can be 2.5% of your income if you don't buy health insurance.
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TheYank | Jul 05, 2012, 12:33 PM EDT
ciaradexy
That's true in America too. There is Medicaid, which is something akin to the medical card here for those on low incomes, assistance, etc. There is also Medicare, which is for older people.
The primary difference is that in America if you are considered able to pay you will be billed for the services you use. Here the taxpayer foots the bill for emergency services, long term care, public hospital care, etc so you don't have to have health insurance. You just might have to wait a while for treatment, something Americans visibly blanch at when you talk about such things.
There may also be an upside to the American system that is less apparent. For example, you often see stories about people from here or Britain going to America for some specialist treatment. As far I've been able to tell, the opposite is not true.
I also think the average American expects and receives greater comfort in the hospital than the average Irish or British person. Whether the actual medical care is better, I can't say.
It's very difficult to compare systems in different countries. The American system seems very expensive, but whether it's more costly than the public systems that prevail over here I can't say.
That's true in America too. There is Medicaid, which is something akin to the medical card here for those on low incomes, assistance, etc. There is also Medicare, which is for older people.
The primary difference is that in America if you are considered able to pay you will be billed for the services you use. Here the taxpayer foots the bill for emergency services, long term care, public hospital care, etc so you don't have to have health insurance. You just might have to wait a while for treatment, something Americans visibly blanch at when you talk about such things.
There may also be an upside to the American system that is less apparent. For example, you often see stories about people from here or Britain going to America for some specialist treatment. As far I've been able to tell, the opposite is not true.
I also think the average American expects and receives greater comfort in the hospital than the average Irish or British person. Whether the actual medical care is better, I can't say.
It's very difficult to compare systems in different countries. The American system seems very expensive, but whether it's more costly than the public systems that prevail over here I can't say.
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ciaradexy | Jul 05, 2012, 11:48 AM EDT
As flawed as the Irish healthcare system may be, at least we all get treated regardless of how much we earn.
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TheYank | Jul 05, 2012, 10:19 AM EDT
hollabackgurl,
I thought the tax/penalty applied if you failed to buy health insurance, not if you seek medical attention. I thought that was the point of the IRS's involvement. If you have to pay an extra tax of $2000 or more that's as good as compulsion.
I still don't see why you would call someone stupid if they they know the actuarial risk of their needing such medical attention is lower than the cost of the plans available would indicate. For a large chunk of the population that is the case. It's a gamble, but one in which the odds are actually in their favor.
I thought the tax/penalty applied if you failed to buy health insurance, not if you seek medical attention. I thought that was the point of the IRS's involvement. If you have to pay an extra tax of $2000 or more that's as good as compulsion.
I still don't see why you would call someone stupid if they they know the actuarial risk of their needing such medical attention is lower than the cost of the plans available would indicate. For a large chunk of the population that is the case. It's a gamble, but one in which the odds are actually in their favor.
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