America's Irish immigrants - not Irish enough to be President of Ireland
By: The Yank | Published Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 7:05 PM | Updated Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 7:05 PM
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Irish Presidential candidate
Dana Rosemary Scallon |
Irish Presidential candidate
Dana Rosemary Scallon found herself at the center of a controversy she clearly never anticipated when she decided to put her name forward for Ireland's top job. Although it was couched in a variety of ways, the accusation essentially was that Scallon was an American.
It's true too. She is. Scallon became an American citizen during the 1990s.
The Irish Times said she'd become American in 1997 before her last bid to become President of Ireland. Scallon said it was 1999 and it seems to probably be the case as the source for the Irish Times' story has
rowed back somewhat on her testimony.
As the story unfolded on Friday I got more and more annoyed as Scallon's American citizenship took on the aura of a social disease. Twitter and talk radio were ablaze with people indignant that this woman who had taken out American citizenship should want to be President of Ireland.
It is vaguely amusing because the Irish Constitution doesn't actually disallow an Irish citizen from the Presidency simply because they happen to also be a citizen of another country. You may well think that's a bit lax, but the Irish Constitution was "written"* by American-born
Eamon De Valera. He somehow failed to exclude himself from any governmental role, including President when the Constitution was being drafted.
So, there is no restriction on an American citizen becoming President of Ireland.
Fortunately the matter of the
Oath of Allegiance provided an out for those who prefer their political assassinations to be less obviously based on bigotry. The Irish Times got the ball rolling by "helpfully"
reproducing the oath Scallon had to take when she became American. They pontificated on the fact that she had declared that she does "entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty ..." when she became a citizen.
That's true too. She said those words, or some form of them, when she became an American citizen. However, Ireland, like the United Kingdom and other countries, doesn't accept the renunciation in the American oath. She retained all rights of citizenship after taking the oath that she had before she did so. There is
absolutely no legal impediment to her becoming President of Ireland.
____________
Read More:Dana offers to renounce US citizenship in latest Presidential rowAn American in the Irish government?Niall O'Dowd: Day one on the presidential campaign in Ireland_____________
There is nothing legally preventing Scallon from becoming President, but the Irish Times and others are keen to prevent someone of that type from becoming President. What type is that? Irish immigrants to America.
Niall O'Dowd ran into the same bigoted nonsense earlier this year when he was only exploring a possible run for the Presidency.
And, yes I am convinced it really is only Irish immigrants to America who would be targeted in this way. If one of the candidates had spent years living in France, speaking French and living as an immigrant in France we'd be told over and over how great it would be to have such a sophisticate in the post. If the person had lived in Indonesia, we'd hear about how the candidate could help us renew our ties to the third world.
However, if you go to America and live as immigrants to America live you're told you are no longer Irish. Not really. You're sort of tainted Irish. Good enough for us to woo if you're successful in business or to invite to a "
homecoming," but don't for one minute think you're still one of us.
One thing O'Dowd got right that Scallon got wrong was that he didn't apologize or run away from his decision to become an American. Millions have made the same journey over the past two centuries and to give into this bigotry would have been an insult to all those who went to America, many because they were driven there by poverty and political ineptitude, but who nonetheless remained proud to be Irish and passed that pride down to their American born children, grandchildren and so on.
Scallon, unfortunately, said she "would have no problem giving up my US citizenship if that was the wish of the Irish people." How craven.
She should have spit in their eye and told them that she was proud to have become an American and saw no conflict between being an American citizen and serving as President of Ireland. She could have just said she would abstain from participating in the American political process while serving as President. That would have been fine.
The President of Ireland has limited constitutional responsibilities. The role of the President these days is one of national cheerleader and promoter. An American, whether an immigrant from Ireland or of Irish descent, would be a great idea. It would demonstrate that all this talk about harnessing the diaspora's potential isn't just guff or a cash call. Even in a losing effort Scallon could have been that candidate, but instead she chose to accept the Irish Times' denigration of America's Irish immigrants.
*
The Constitution is often said to have been "written by Dev," but in fact he closely oversaw the drafting process.
26 Comments
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.AmericanGirl83 | Dec 04, 2011, 06:12 PM EST
This is common sense actually. If you were born in Ireland, you are Irish. No piece of paper could take that away from you. Same thing as Americans. Born in America, you are American, even if your parents are not. Either way, as long as you are born of that country, you should be entitled to presidency. A piece of paper doesn't change your DNA either, so what is the big deal?
Fergananim | Oct 28, 2011, 08:29 PM EDT
Yank, you give the media too much credit. Dana has run for president before and was one of our MEP's, but was not reelected. Its because most voters know and dislike her, not what passport she holds, that she failed to get elected.
audreybolton | Oct 25, 2011, 02:37 PM EDT
Let us settle this matter once and for all. To run for President of the Irish Republic you should be over 35, be an Irish Citizen be eligible to vote in elections, reside in the Irish Republic, have no criminal record and owe no allegiace to any other country other the then the Irish Republic' '
Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 01:55 AM EDT
Fair play to you, John (the Yank) for exposing the ridiculous double standard and exclusivist mentality of the Little Irelanders. I'm an Irish citizen, am fluent in Irish, and have lived most of the last 20 years in Ireland but committted the sin of being born and spending my 'formative years' (whatever that means exactly) in the USA. Over the last 2 decades, I've heard over and over again "I don't care where your grandparents came from, how long you've lived in Ireland, or how well you speak Irish, you're NOT Irish and you never will be. You'll never be one of us". Fair enough. However, if it weren't so pathetically sad, I would find it humourous that some people in Ireland say that Niall O'Dowd and Dana are American now and no longer Irish, though both of them were born on the island of Ireland and spent their first 2 decades living there. Surely they can't have it both ways, can they? Well, it would seem that unless you are born and spend your ENTIRE life living in Ireland, you will be denied and disqualified from an Irish identity. How incredibly insular, parochial, and narrow-minded are some members of the tribe we belong to, John! (Fortunately, not every Irish-born-and-bred person in Ireland thinks like that. Some are very clued-in and well able to see the bigger picture. That's why I've stayed in Ireland and, in spite of everything, think of it as 'home'). Dónall Mac Amhlaigh expressed it very succinctly in his ironic closing statement in DIALANN DEORAÍ: "Nach iontach an dream muid".
Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 01:41 AM EDT
Fair play to you, John (the Yank) for exposing the ridiculous exclusivist mentality of the Little Irelanders. I'm an Irish citizen, am fluent in Irish, and have lived most of the last 20 years in Ireland but committted the sin of being born and spending my 'formative years' (whatever that means exactly) in the USA. Over the last 2 decades, I've heard over and over again "I don't care where your grandparents came from, how long you've lived in Ireland, or how well you speak Irish, you're NOT Irish and you never will be. You'll never be one of us". Fair enough. However, if it weren't so pathetically sad, I would find it humourous that some people in Ireland would say that Niall O'Dowd and Dana are American now and now longer Irish, though both of them were born on the island of Ireland and spent their first 2 decades living there. It would seem that unless you ae born and spend your ENTIRE life living in Ireland, you will be denied and disqualified from an Irish identity. What an insular, parochial, and narrow-minded tribe we belong to, John! (Fortunately, not every Irish-born-and-bred person in Ireland thinks like that. Some are very clued-in and well able to see the bigger picture. That's why I've stayed in Ireland and, in spite of everything, think of it as 'home'). Dónall Mac Amhlaigh expressed it very succinctly in his ironic closing statement in DIALANN DEORAÍ: "Nach iontach an dream muid".
LilPaddy | Oct 13, 2011, 03:19 PM EDT
Just read your "Comment" Invercolpa, and I agree so much; I just wish you had added that each candidate should HAVE TO PASS A POLYGRAPH before Fn, the country over.... (with the same program for locals and foreigners who apply for unemployment or welfare!!)Ireland would be better for it!! (just wonder if Niall would have had "the boy's" to take the test??).....
RichardP | Oct 13, 2011, 06:38 AM EDT
@GeorgeDillon: "...Rosemary Scallon(A.K.A Dana),Mary McAleese and Martin McGuinness despite coming from the northern partitioned portion of Ireland, offer a more rounded and historically truthful vision of what it is to be Irish than the truncated version that has persisted in the Republic of Ireland for some 80 years." PLEASE substantiate THAT assertion. It is patronizing in the extreme.
RichardP | Oct 13, 2011, 06:34 AM EDT
@GeorgeDillon: Wow, they're Irish?!? Thank you so much for enlightening me on that count George; so that's why they want to become President of the Republic! Who knew? "...Their grandparents were excluded from an independent Irish state, against their will. The 26 Counties is not Ireland, never has been, never will." Even more revelations, this is exciting stuff George. Can you now answer the actual question please. Why do a has-been, fundamentalist Catholic and a known member of a terrorist organization which killed and maimed thousands of Irish men and women want, who come from the entity know as Northern Ireland want to become President of the Republic of Ireland? [McAleese is actually a very good President, but what is the motivation for a Northerner to become President of the Republic?] Is it just to show they can? They can run for office in another State even though they are not residents of that State (RoI) - or have they conveniently become residents somewhere south of the Border? It is opportunistic showboating and it has nothing to do with "They're IRISH". Scallon has RENOUNCED (totally) her Irish citizenship once already - did she renounce her British citizenship too? McGuinness has that classic trait of all successful politicians - selective amnesia. He has been elected as Deputy First Minister in Stormont, to Westminster as an MP and now would like to add Aras an Uachtarain to his list of addresses - why? Oh, right - because he's Irish. There are a few million Irish people who will question their motivation and legitimacy as candidates. George when you next give up your membership of some organization do you think they'll say its ok to become President of said organization? When you engage in the killing, maiming and destruction of the organization and it's members do you think it will be okay to run for office after you say "I don't remember any of that and it was terrible what other people did and I want to lead the other one now?
kinvara7 | Oct 13, 2011, 04:21 AM EDT
I must ask again, do you think the electorate should know if a candidate has citizenship of another country before choosing to elect them as the first citizen of the state? Your second paragraph seems to suggest that you don’t think the Irish electorate need know; you seem to base that view on the basis that the role of Irish President is less important than that of the US President. While the role of US President has a great deal more political power than that of Uachtarán na hÉireann both are heads of their respective states and both electorates deserve to be treated with the same respect. (Furthermore, I don’t think you fully appreciate the fact that our President does have some important constitutional obligations and powers –it’s not all about ‘cheerleading’). It is a relevant fact whether or not a candidate has taken an oath of allegiance to another state (it is not a barrier here, it might not even matter to most voters, but it is relevant and Dana knew that). I have heard some people say the oath of allegiance means nothing, perhaps, but does that mean the oath to the Irish people upon taking office also means nothing? Voters can decide if there is a conflict or, as is their right, whether they feel the first citizen of the state should ONLY BE a citizen of that state. If it raises some questions so what? Those questions are mild compared to the type of questions other candidates are being asked. The reason Dana is doing so badly in the polls has nothing to do with her US citizenship. Could an Irish American be elected as President of Ireland? Of course, but a suitable and serious candidate needs to step forward to lead the way.
TheYank | Oct 12, 2011, 04:05 PM EDT
kinvara7
Oh, you mean she should have announced last month that she was running for President and, oh, by the way, I'm an American citizen. I think it was perfectly reasonable for her to just wait to be asked. That never happened. Instead the Irish Times "uncovered that fact." If they had simply asked her first it would have given the fact a totally different tone. Instead they revealed it like it was a dirty secret.
The Irish President is nothing like any elected position in America. As I said above, the President's role these days is more about cheerleading and being leader of the Irish people world-wide than fulfilling constitutional duties. The American President is totally different.
Truth is, I'd have more of an issue if we were talking about Taoiseach or any cabinet role. I've written before that I didn't think Ciaran Cuffe should have been Min for the Environment and voting in America's elections.
kinvara7 | Oct 12, 2011, 09:32 AM EDT
@TheYank: I know that you mentioned the oath; I’m not pushed about the claim made by her sister. You say the reason Dana didn’t mention her US citizenship was because she thought it unremarkable, but I don’t even think you believe that; after all she was quick enough to suggest giving it up. Furthermore, given the Irish Times article regarding Niall O’Dowd (which she would have been aware of) there is little doubt that she knew the oath might be viewed negatively by some of the electorate. A great deal could be said in reply to your second paragraph. You say that: “if they are no longer Irish then someone ought to tell them”. No one is saying that she is not Irish. Furthermore, as you point out an Irish citizen is entitled to run for President. So she is Irish and she can and is running for President, notwithstanding that she has citizenship of another country and has taken an oath of allegiance to another country. So far, so fair, indeed the Irish position is far more liberal than the requirements in the United States. So I must ask again, do you think the electorate should know if a candidate has citizenship of another country before choosing to elect them as the first citizen of the state? I think the electorate should know. Then having been fully informed, they can decide if there is a conflict or, as is their right, whether they feel the first citizen of the state should ONLY BE a citizen of that state. These are decisions for each individual voter to make. Many voters, including myself, don’t think there is any conflict however candidates have a responsibility to be up front and they need to respect the right of the media to report.
TheYank | Oct 12, 2011, 07:38 AM EDT
kinvara7,
I did mention the oath. And I made reference to the 1997 allegation in the Irish Times, but yes, I didn't talk about her sister's allegation because she then rowed back on it.
There is a fundamental difference between the US & Ireland. The United States has never had to export large numbers of its people. Ireland has. Dana was one of them, but there have been millions of Irish immigrants to America over the past 200 yrs. There are tens of thousands (at least) today. If they are no longer Irish then someone ought to tell them and stop trying to use them as in "harnessing the diaspora."
That no one in the media thought to ask Dana if she ever became a citizen is a reflection on the media, not Dana. She thought it unremarkable, which would be the case among the tens of thousands I mentioned above.
oldboreen | Oct 12, 2011, 07:25 AM EDT
Rebelforce! I coudn't put it better myself! Not particularly in favour of Dana as President, but that's not entirely the point.This tiresome 'is she or isn't she'?dialogue, illustrates yet again the confusion of so many in Ireland as to who is 'Truely Irish'! Would someone out there care to explain?
kinvara7 | Oct 12, 2011, 05:28 AM EDT
@TheYank: Why didn’t you mention the allegation made by Dana’s sister? Naturalised US citizens take an oath renouncing their allegiance to all other states and while Ireland recognizes dual citizenship don’t you think the electorate should know if a candidate has citizenship of another country before choosing to elect them as the first citizen of the state? I think you have been too sensitive and there is a certain amount of hypocrisy at work here also (try to imagine it in reverse, how would one of the potential Republican candidates fair if it became known that they had taken an oath of allegiance to another state? Do you think the US media would raise the issue?). The issue here is not whether there is a legal impediment, but whether the electorate should know, and secondly whether they feel there is a conflict or, as is their right, whether they feel the first citizen of the state should ONLY BE a citizen of that state. These are relevant issues and the media are entitled to raise them, ultimately it is a decision for the electorate.
GeorgeDillon | Oct 12, 2011, 03:02 AM EDT
RiachardP--"why do Dana Rosemary Scallon, martin McGuinness and our current Head of State Mary McAleese all want to be President of the Republic of Ireland when their so-called contributions to the country have all been in Northern ireland".... Are you for real? You mean you don't know? They're IRISH, that's why! Their grandparents were excluded from an independent Irish state, against their will. The 26 Counties is not Ireland, never has been, never will.
Gearoid4 | Oct 11, 2011, 07:31 PM EDT
@Richardp Rosemary Scallon(A.K.A Dana),Mary McAleese and Martin McGuinness despite coming from the northern partitioned portion of Ireland, offer a more rounded and historically truthful vision of what it is to be Irish than the truncated version that has persisted in the Republic of Ireland for some 80 years. If the president of Ireland represents ALL of the people of Ireland, then it is fitting that an Irish citizen from the north should participate in the presidential contest as a candidate for that privileged post. Hopefully the electoral anomaly of Irish citizens, north of the border, not being able to vote for the candidate of their choice, will soon be rectified. The Dana "American citizenship" controversy is nothing but a storm in a Boston tea-party teacup.
Rebelforce | Oct 11, 2011, 05:52 PM EDT
Is Dana Irish or American? She needs to buy one of those "Certificates of Irishness" to settle this matter once and for all.
RichardP | Oct 11, 2011, 05:27 PM EDT
With people going off half-cocked about Anti-Americanism here it's no surprise the actual issues have been conveniently overlooked. The primary issue was that she Scallon) had supposedly hidden her American citizenship deliberately because SHE thought it was an issue. That would suggest a deceitful intent and indeed a fraudulent intent if she were guilty of such a cover-up. So wind your necks in a little on that one please. As for her American citizenship being an impediment to her candidacy, let's not forget that the good ole US of A prohibits American Citizens not born in the word's so-called greatest democracy from running for President of said country. The hypocritical rantings of "Anti-American! Shame!" need to be tempered with some real perspective. I asked the question previously in response to another article and got no answers - so, once again, why do Dana Rosemary Scallon, martin McGuinness and our current Head of State Mary McAleese all want to be President of the Republic of Ireland when their so-called contributions to the country have all been in Northern ireland? What do they offer voters that people born and raised in the Republic do not - other than an opportunistic nature?
cillowen | Oct 11, 2011, 04:37 PM EDT
nice lady but too dumpy lokoing for Aras
Ajreaper | Oct 11, 2011, 02:52 PM EDT
If it is not contrary to Irish law what possible harm could come from allowing voters to determine who is or is not a qualified candidate? It seems perhaps there is a great deal of picking and choosing done over when an American is ok and not ok. No one should be judged souly on their nationality or citizenship- we all deserve better then that.
Bailey2000 | Oct 11, 2011, 12:22 PM EDT
Actually I don't know why Niall O'Dowd gave up on his Presidential bid. I am not at all sure that looking at the number of largely lightweight candidates who have come forward that he might well have been elected. As for Dana, I really wouldn't get too exercised about the "American" issue. The truth is that the anti gay biased media shredded David Norris so they feel they now have to re balance by trying to stir up trouble for the other candidates too. My feeling is that with recent visits by President Obama and Clinton the US has never been higher in Irish esteem.
Invercolpa | Oct 11, 2011, 11:08 AM EDT
Unfortunately our tribalism once again blocks us from progress.I think Niall O'Dowd would make an excellent President but it was never to be.Our introverted xenophobic class of political mediocrity could never countenance a 'returned yank' in that position. Sure, wouldn't he only want to make a show of us with his foreign ways and habits from over there in America. So lets fight it out amongst ourselves. So what if one candidate needs to deny ever murdering anyone of aiding or abetting murdering anyone. And another one uses his position to beg for clemency form a foreign power for a convicted rapist.And now even Dana,sweetness heart, is revealed as a liar. I lived in Ireland for many years. I never met ANYBODY like these candidates.I did meet hundreds of honest,respectible, decent, trustworthy people.Why does one of them not become president? How come we always shoot ourselves in the foot and allow our political processes to yield up such moral bankrupts to lead us.They do not reflect the Irish people I know. So let him go back to the Bogside,let her stick to the singing and let him go back in the closet.Lets pick someone who at least appears to reflect the broad majority of our people. Keep out the fringe dwellers.We deserve better.
Yardleypa | Oct 11, 2011, 10:14 AM EDT
Tourism Ireland is doing its welcome home campaign whereby they hope to attract 350,000 emigrants back,it looks like they just want the money but no baggage.
OBPiper | Oct 11, 2011, 10:11 AM EDT
OK, let the lassie renounce that American oath insofar as it conflicts with her loyalties to Ireland. America does allow some dual citizenships and maybe that should be pursued. But, please remember that the U.S.A. owes it existence to the Scotch Irish within (and the French from without) and that debt can never be repaid better than to honour a dual citizen to become President of Ireland as Ireland would have it.
joycean | Oct 11, 2011, 09:51 AM EDT
Exactly what O'Dowd ran into. Very hypocritical of the Irish: holding meetings with wealthy Diaspora, planning a "homecoming" and at the same time this undercurrent of Anti-Americanism. Of course, many Irish-Americans will be oblivious. There is another article here about what not to do in Ireland. I wish someone could shake everone in Ireland and tell THEM to stop the double-dealing.
sirpeter | Oct 11, 2011, 08:35 AM EDT
Anybody in Ireland who has a little bit to much Irish nationalism is going to be attacked with anything a certain group of people in this country can find.If there was no banning of Irish-Americans as President in the Irish constitution then the majority of the Irish people had no problem with it.If there is a smell of lime off the stick Dana is been beaten with,you know who is behind it all.It's hard to spot the Lime-y in a pint of Guinness but you can taste it all the same.It ruins a good pint.