Ireland turns on gypsies homeless
By: Mary Catherine Brouder | Published Tuesday, January 8, 2013, 1:02 PM | Updated Tuesday, January 8, 2013, 1:02 PM

No matter where you go in Dublin’s city center, and many large cities, you’ll almost always find people sitting on the street begging for their keep. There are the young runaways, the sullen addicts, and then there are Roma people, often referred to as gypsies.
Despite the fact that the Roma usually don’t exhibit addictions, have children with them, and maintain distinctly tidy appearances despite their meager means, it’s the Roma I hear my Irish friends and neighbors complaining about the most.
Since France officially began deporting hundreds of Roma families this week, I’ve taken part in more than a few interesting conversations. Several of my friends were, like me, horrified by the measure, but I was surprised to find that many people wholly supported the idea of involuntary deportations.
One friend launched into a tirade about the horrors of “the gypos.” When I pressed him to explain where his decidedly pejorative frame of mind about the Roma came from(perhaps personal experience?), he merely offered the usual, “they’re just rude, and so ignorant.”
Besides, he explained, “They hurt their children to help their chances of getting more money from begging.”
Did he have any proof to support such an accusation? None.
It seems to me that it would logically require much more parenting to raise a disabled child on the street, rather than a perfectly healthy one. And for that matter, wouldn’t it cost his parents more in lifelong medical treatments than they could ever hope to earn begging for change?
Even if that one didn’t make the most sense, he had another reason for his prejudice. “When you give them money, they pool it all together from all of their posts around the city and then when they get back to their camp, they divide it up.”
Well, that just sounded like an example of business savvy, or good sharing at least; hardly evidence of crookery and inherent dishonesty, as he would have me believe.
I spent time with Roma people a few months ago while working on a documentary about them. My co-producer and I traveled around Hungary, to some of the most destitute and hopelessly impoverished slums I have ever seen. And yet I’ve never meet people more eager to open up their homes and hearts to me, a perfect stranger with a video camera, than the Roma in those neighborhoods.
All of the families we visited gave us three kisses on the cheeks – a Hungarian custom – and offered us coffee and literally every single piece of food they had in their cubboards.
One older woman spoke about having barely enough money to buy loaves of bread to feed her family, and then laughed at the idea of being able to buy meat to put on those loaves. It was an awkward silence, full of shame and sorrow on my and my colleagues’ part, that followed. We had eat sandwiches for lunch, and the likes of big chicken dinners, every night that week.
The Roma are not just poor people. They live in homes without proper heating, electricity, or sanitation.
They live in conditions that no human should have to endure, and if they were anything but a convenient scapegoat for Europe’s financial problems, they wouldn’t be allowed to.
I spoke with Prof. Jack Greenberg, a civil rights attorney who spent time in South Africa during apartheid; he had also traveled through several Roma camps and neighborhoods in recent years. He described the living conditions in Roma camps and neighborhoods as worse than anything he had seen in the South African shanty towns.
The lucky ones get out of the places where they’ve historically suffered from slavery, genocide, discrimination, and marginalization, to start anew in places like France, or Ireland.
And when they get here, they fight for every dime they get. Yes, many are agressive when it comes to asking for money or food. I have had a few unpleasant experiences with Roma people pushing too far when begging or responding to my donations with ingratitude, but I often wonder how pushy I would be if I had to rely on the charity of other people to feed my children.
I bet I’d fight tooth and nail to get any money I could out of my fellow man. Maybe I wouldn’t be so polite if I saw people all around me wasting food and wearing pricey clothes while I spent my days worrying whether my family would end up going to bed hungry.
A few days ago, I met had a chance meeting with a Hungarian living in Ireland. So, I excitedly told him that I had traveled all around his country, documenting the plight of the Roma people. His facial expression turned from one of delight to disgust. “The Roma people?” he offered with a condescending snort.
“Have you been to any of the jails?” Well, no. “They’re full of Roma people.”
I started to speak about how a legacy of poverty and endless discrimination and marginalization leads to hopelessness, and often, in turn, crime.
He cut me off. “The police over there, they are afraid to arrest anybody because they’ll say, hey you’re just doing it because I’m Roma.” He finished this last bit with a satisfied imitation of a person playing the “poor me” card.
I thought about it for a moment, and then I realized that didn’t make any sense.
“Well,” I asked, “are the jails full of Roma people, or are the cops afraid to arrest them? It can’t be both.”
He had no answer for this. He, like millions of others all around the world, had been fed a bunch of tripe about people that are different, and being inclined to dislike what is unfamiliar, he agreed to allow every reason he was given, to support his theory. Even if they were literally contradictory and illogical.
Discrimination is never logical. Nor is it permissible.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.Justthefacts | Oct 15, 2010, 07:30 AM EDT
Comment seems to have disappeared. For the record, Romas make up 3% of the population of Hungary and make up 66% of the prison population in Hungary. Not sure why the comment disappeared, those facts are quite easy to check.
Justthefacts | Oct 14, 2010, 12:15 PM EDT
To answer Mary's problematic question, around 3% of the Hungarian nation are Roma and around 66% of prisoners are of Roma origin.
soccernet | Oct 11, 2010, 01:32 PM EDT
To MaryM232 Two things: 1 - Paper never refused ink, saying you read something about the gypsies doesn't equate to truth 2 - Ms. Brouder has in fact done her research travelling to Budapest and the like living amongst Roma people
MaryM232 | Oct 04, 2010, 09:24 AM EDT
Ms. Brouder, do you bother informing yourself before making such pronouncements or merely spout off when the whim takes you? I read the foreign press, and there has been one scandal after another for years about the Roma abusing their children. In Scotland, a group of Roma were found to be sexually abusing children, and pimping them out to pedophiles, in Italy, France and Spain, Roma physically harming their children either to qualify for more benefits for the disabled, or to get more money when the child begged as a disabled child earns more money out of sympathy. In Romania, Roma stealing children to smuggle out of the country to use as beggars, the way Fagan did in Dickens' Christmas Carol. I've read one article after another. The Roma are a criminal people, they aren't poor refuges.
oldbear | Sep 27, 2010, 10:35 AM EDT
I have seen and lived among the impverished. All should read this article. Also, Jesus encouraged us to feed the poor...
maloney | Sep 24, 2010, 04:18 PM EDT
It's OK to want the Roma out of Ireland but the USA is to embrace the illegal mexican & the muslim. Both want to change America, not become part of it. Do as I say not as I do.
justhimself | Sep 22, 2010, 09:31 PM EDT
The Roma can live just as good, in Romania. Irish foreign minister should be able to advise the Romanian goverment on how to borrow money in the global finiancial markets ,to feed and house their Roma's at home, this way they would be living and raising their children in their cultural envoirment, and not subject to taxpayer resentment in other peoples homeland, who have to borrow to suport their own.
cavantown | Sep 22, 2010, 02:56 PM EDT
I would think that the writer would be glad not to make the acquaintance of posters who have no idea about dialogue...when something makes them feel uncomfortable...they resort to name calling, etc....easy to see that the mindset that has created this problem is alive and well.
kell7757 | Sep 22, 2010, 12:35 PM EDT
Oh no another escapee from a suburban upper-middle class gated American community. here's an idea for you, live with your new friends for 6 months with no support from or contact with mommy and daddy, then come back here and give us your opinion, which will by then be an informed one. You have no idea how ridiculous you sound.
GeorgeDillon | Sep 21, 2010, 01:08 PM EDT
Dublinjas: Ms Brouder certainly has a cheek going to your country and telling you what to do. How many Roma are permitted to immigrate to the US? Let's say there are 3000 Roma in Ireland now. That would be the equivalent of about a quarter of a million in the US. Go lobby your Congressman to admit a quarter of a million Roma to the US, Brouder, you silly hypocrite.
Dublinjas | Sep 21, 2010, 12:14 AM EDT
Thieves Liars and Crooks that is what your friends the Roma are, Who have come to our country and terrorize our elderly and stink up our streets. And p/s Mary Catherine Brouder What are you actually doing in my country ? We don't need anymore UN reps so called do gooders in Ireland..If I passed you on the street I would not speak to you....Who are you anyway ??
Watereskhill | Sep 20, 2010, 11:13 PM EDT
Rubbish in rescuing these folk. Masterful con-artists passed down to the next generation in the same way we were drilled to work and be decent. Nothing in them has changed in forty years plus in my experience. A woman came to the door in Ireland when I was a boy. A child wrapped in a shawl "Buy a rose and God Bless You". The rose was folded pink toilet paper on a stick. My mother took pity. Brought her in. Heated soup for the child and herself. Bread. Roast chicken spuds you name it. Gave her groceries to take home. Her purse gone from the sideboard when she left bowing and scraping "And may Our Blessed Lady reward you" There is a syruped romance around these folk. Poor. Marginalized. There is also a stark reality check. What about my mother and us handed toilet paper and robbed via Jesus and Mary? They hate us. Thrive on it. Corrall in theft. Milk what's going with a 'pity us' smirk. A gypsy is a gypsy. Beyond reach as of choice. Percecuted Romas my arse. This Article attempts to lift people who are content in their side-glance devious Religion of take 'three kisses on the cheek' or no. When did they ever bring out the fiddles and join in?
IrishAndProud | Sep 20, 2010, 10:28 PM EDT
And btw Mary (this article's author), your last statement is both typically liberal -- and proposterous. Discrimination (not just the word but the whole NOTION of which has been stigmatized as 'bad') is PERFECTLY logical, in certain kinds of circumstances. If a person is causing trouble, you throw them out of the pub (that's what bouncers are for) -- that's discrimination. If you're a practicing Baptist, good luck joining the Catholic church (again, discrimination). Which set of clothes did you put on this morning -- over which others? Discrimination. Could I as a white joint the Nation of Islam? Probably not...again, discrimination. Discrimination is not only NOT bad and indeed permissible, but absolutely CALLED FOR, under certain circumstances. Tolerance is not always good, just as intolerance is not always bad. It's always circumstantial, and case-by-case...and I'm only sorry, Mary, that you chose the oh-so-easy, rubber-stamp and utterly WRONG approach of broadbrushing yet another entire concept, just because political correctness has made it easy to do so, and because you think no one will dare directly challenge the notion -- and we'll just 'shame them away' if they do, right? Well...it ain't happening. You really do need to become less cliche'd and more of a thinker. Take it as constructive criticism; that's how I mean it.
IrishAndProud | Sep 20, 2010, 09:18 PM EDT
I don't like seeing anyone in abject poverty any more than any other caring person (I sponsor a child overseas, myself) -- but folks, no nation can just let themselves be overrun with a foreign people who do not assimilate, do not contribute, and who further tax a system that's already facing financial collapse and cannot affort it. Deportations, like they're already doing in France, also need to happen in Ireland -- and that's not doing something just to be 'mean' but for national survival. Tough decisions have to be made here, folks...and Ireland (and the USA, for that matter, with its massive illegal alien problem) cannot just keep putting it off. These are serious matters that need serious attention, NOW. Our countries cannot -- I repeat, CANNOT -- keep going as they are and have been (turning a blind eye to massive influxes of foreigners). Deportation is in fact a solution. Saying 'You can't do that! How cruel!" is NOT a solution; it's just being a cheerleader of the unsustainable status-quo, for purely emotional reasons. And that is NOT an option. Oh, and lest anyone accuse me of never having interacted with the Gypsies in Ireland -- I have. I've been panhandled to (in Derry City), and I've heard it directly from business employees, in Donegal: they shoplift and steal, and you have to keep a close eye on them whenever they're in the store. My question is, what in the world are they even doing in Ireland, at all? THEY...SHOULD...NOT...EVEN...BE...THERE.
PolinDeB | Sep 20, 2010, 08:08 PM EDT
looking at the comments and the article, neither shows a solution. After all, surely begging on the streets of Dublin isn't a long term career prospect? And we've already been through this with the traveler's trying to get a solution, and it seems failed. I'm not saying don't be nice, I said hi to the Roma Woman in the galway alley every day though I don't know if I ever gave her money...she didn't seem to mind... perhaps now though the pressure of no money in the country is affecting them too. If begging is a lifestyle, Ireland isn't the place to do it these days. Like all migrant workers (?) when the economy buckets it's time to go home, because you cannot stop humans under pressure resenting any further push on their already meager resources. I had a weird conversation with my sister about travelers as an ethnic minority, she was all for. I was 'but their Irish', I wasn't saying their way of life shouldn't be supported as an Irish cultural choice (though subject to the same laws ;>) but that they were Irish not some strangers in our midst. And of course we need to take care of our own. But considering how that's working out.. not sure we can be great help to the Roma people. It seems like something that should be addressed at a EU level with discussions with the Roma themselves.
PolinDeB | Sep 20, 2010, 07:52 PM EDT
Yeah, unfortunately people will always look for someone to look down on... these are the same people who were rude to waitresses when they were "rich", as I said the the Nigerian taxi driver "one good thing about the recession is that wanker will now have to shut up"
onthebetterview | Sep 20, 2010, 06:04 PM EDT
“Well,” I asked, “are the jails full of Roma people, or are the cops afraid to arrest them? It can’t be both.” He had no answer for this. Oh yes he did, unless he correctly estimated that your capacity for honesty and reasoning are equally severely handicapped. What good do you think your saccharine-sweet article does? Are you seriously claiming that the civilised world is all bad (but for you) and the Gipsies are its innocent victims? And I do not believe that you have been all over Hungary’s Gipsy settlements. If you had, you would not have come up with this ghastly drivel. Europe has to devise a common a plan for managing the Gipsy problem, both for Gipsies’ sake and our own.
beachline | Sep 20, 2010, 04:18 PM EDT
I too have had encounters with beggars on the streets of Cork city. Some were Romas, others were dressed in silk saris and wearing enough gold earings and bracelets to sink them to the bottom of the river. They would push children in my path and have the kids hang on to my legs begging for money, but it wasnt money I gave them. Gardai said nothing would be done even if I charged them. They would be back on the streets in hours. So, I have to agree with Frances planned deportation, except NOT to Ireland!!
sirpeter | Sep 20, 2010, 03:36 PM EDT
The fact is they make a living out of aggressive begging and petty thievery, this is their way of life. I myself nearly was a victim one Saturday night,I jokingly said to the guys to give this Roma woman a few euros..it came to about 25 euros and i joking said..there now you are a few euros better off,Quickly she gave me a hug,but all of a sudden she had her hand on my wallet,only for fact i caught her..it was gone,my opinion of them went in the toilet after that.She didn't even care that i caught her.
WoundedKnee | Sep 20, 2010, 02:45 PM EDT
These people beg in Dublin, yet they have the money to fly over to Ireland! What s stupid article by Brouder, not the first in her case. Ireland has no responsibility to beggars and petty thieves who travel a thousand miles to Ireland in order to pick on her people. The last time I was in Ireland I found myself one evening waiting for a bus on a rather quiet street in a town not far from Dublin. I heard someone crying "Help, Help Me". I turned around and I saw an elderly woman at an ATM. She was surrounded by about six Roma teenagers, who were mobbing her and trying to get her to give them her card and PIN. I went over to the woman and told the Roma rats to F*** off back to whatever hellhole they had come from. They did, though someone told me afterward that I was very foolish to tackle them, as they are quite capable of drawing a knife and slitting your throat. The elderly Irish woman was in tears. She told me that this was her town, where she had lived for some 70 years, all her life. Now in her old age she was victimized by foreign criminals. Thanks Fianna Fail, scum who invited more scum! The Irish are too passive, they should follow the French example and root out these vermin (Fianna Fail Roma) from their homeland.
John O'Brien | Sep 20, 2010, 02:38 PM EDT
Que viva los Cale' de Andalucia!
kilkenny999 | Sep 20, 2010, 02:30 PM EDT
remember ! there but for the grace of god go the rest of us.
Seamusdhu | Sep 20, 2010, 02:27 PM EDT
Before I will shed any tears over the fate of the Roma I would tell other people of Irish descent to set up an organization to investigate the lives of real Irish people who had to immigrate to other countries like England,the US.Canada and what really happens to immigrants. A strong hint at what really may happen was given in the terribly named book"The Indestructible Irish by Cohane for indeed they are very destructible Why not also an organizarion to encourage real Irish people to return to their homeland not these dark haired,dark eyed unlucks carpet bagging into another land.Now Ireland has to start exporting its own children again because of recent economic disasters. 70 percent of the Irish electorate don,t want any more foreign immigrants especially when their own people have to leave for the same reasons as the Roma and others are entering the country. Find out what really happens to your own people when they immigrate not the bullcrap stories of sweet success. Its called the sociological imagination;concerning what really happens to people. Ireland needs all the help it can get. They are the only people in the world to have a football team named after them i.e. Notre Dame fighting Irish but don,thave a complete nation. The Irish thought they were free when they could immigrate and there it is that luck of the Irish again"the Irish bar"where I'v known so many waste themselves on booze.Just like the"fighting Sioux"who are loosers also.
Conor86 | Sep 20, 2010, 01:55 PM EDT
I've had two encounters with them one was and older guy about 50's-60's and he came straight up to me in my face and put out his hand right in front of my face with a few coins on it and begging me. Then i was crossing a bridge and had a guy and his son about one on each side of the road they started across to one another when people walked by. And they're wife's and girlfriends sit down next to atm cash machines and even one followed my friend into a restaurant. They should come over to work not beg and since their begging how did they get over to ireland because they didn't swim they must have paid for transport.