Ireland turns on gypsies homeless
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 at 04:57 AM
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No matter where you go in Dublin’s city center, and many large cities, you’ll almost always find people sitting on the street begging for their keep. You’ll see young runaways, sullen addicts, and Roma people, often referred to as gypsies.Despite the fact that the Roma usually don’t exhibit addictions, have children with them, and maintain distinctly tidy appearances despite their meager means, it’s always the Roma people I hear my Irish friends and neighbors complaining about.
As France officially began deporting hundreds of Roma families this week, I took part in more than a few interesting conversations about this blatantly discriminatory new policy. Several of my friends were, like me, horrified, but I was surprised to see how many people fiercely supported the measure.
One friend launched into a tirade about the horrors of “the gypos.” When I pressed him to explain where his decidedly pejorative frame of mind about the Roma came from(perhaps personal experience?), he merely offered the usual, “they’re just rude, and so ignorant.”
In order to justify his bigotry, he offered, “They hurt their children to help their chances of getting more money from begging.” Did he have any proof to support such a horrid accusation? None.
It seems to me, from a purely logistical standpoint, that it would require a much more parenting to raise a disabled child on the street, rather than a perfectly healthy one. And for that matter, wouldn’t it cost more in medical bills throughout a child’s life than his parent could ever hope to earn from begging for change?
Even if that one didn’t make the most sense, he had another reason for his prejudice against them. “When you give them money, they pool it all together from all of their posts around the city and then when they get back to their camp, they divide it up.”
Well to me, that just sounds like an example of business savvy and good sharing, and certainly does not constitute evidence of crookery and inherent dishonesty, as he would have me believe.
As it so happens, I spent time with Roma people a few months ago while working on a documentary. My co-producer and I traveled around Hungary, to some of the most destitute and hopelessly impoverished slums I have ever seen. And yet I’ve never meet people as eager to open up their homes and hearts, as the Roma people in those neighborhoods.
All of the families we visited gave us three kisses on the cheeks – a Hungarian custom – and offered us coffee and literally every single scrap of food that they had.
One older woman spoke about having barely enough money to buy loaves of bread for her family members. She then laughed at the absurdity of being able to afford meat to put on those loaves. It was an awkward silence, full of shame and sorrow, that followed.
The Roma are not just poor people. They live in homes without proper heating, electricity, or sanitation.
They live in conditions that no human should have to endure, and if they were anything but Europe’s scapegoat for all of its financial problems, they wouldn’t be allowed to.
I spoke with Prof. Jack Greenberg, a civil rights attorney who spent time in South Africa during apartheid, and traveled through several Roma camps and neighborhoods. He said that the Roma living conditions were worse, by far, than any of what he saw in the South African shanty towns.
The lucky ones get out of the places where they’ve historically suffered from slavery, genocide, discrimination, and marginalization, to start anew in places like France, or Ireland.
And when they get here, they fight for every dime they get. Yes, I have had a few unpleasant experiences with Roma people aggressively begging on the street, but at the end of the day, if I had to rely on the charity of other people to feed my children, I’d fight tooth and nail to get any money I could out of our ungenerous citizenry.
A few days ago, I met had a chance meeting with a Hungarian living in Ireland. So I excitedly told him that I had traveled all around his country, documenting the plight of the Roma people. His facial expression turned from one of delight to disgust. “The Roma people?” he offered with a condescending snort.
“Have you been to any of the jails?” Well, no. “They’re full of Roma people.”
Interesting. I spoke about how a legacy of poverty and endless discrimination and marginalization leads to hopelessness, and often, in turn, crime. He cut me off, “The police over there, they are afraid to arrest anybody because they’ll say, hey you’re just doing it because I’m Roma.” He finished this last bit with a satisfied imitation of someone playing the “poor me” card.
I thought about it for a moment, and then I realized that didn’t make any sense.
“Well,” I asked, “are the jails full of Roma people, or are the cops afraid to arrest them? It can’t be both.”
He had no answer for this. He, like millions of others all around the world, had been fed a bunch of tripe about people that are different, and being inclined to dislike what it unfamiliar, he agreed to allow every reason he was given, to support his theory. Even if they were literally contradictory and illogical.
Discrimination is never logical. Nor is it permissible.
48 comments
Justthefacts | Sep 21, 2010, 01:49 AM EDT
Of interest, there are believed to be over 6,000 Roma in Ireland. No-one knows the exact figure.
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cavantown | Sep 20, 2010, 11:28 PM EDT
Of interest:
It is believed that there are fewer than 2,000 Roma living in Ireland, most of
whom are Irish born.
I believe a recent report by the Commission on Racial Equality demonstrated that there is no statistical increase in local crime associated with the presence of Travellers/gypsies in any Irish community.
Prejudice resulting in discrimination is always bad.
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IrishAndProud | Sep 20, 2010, 09:49 PM EDT
And btw Mary (this article's author), your last statement is both typically liberal -- and proposterous. Discrimination (not just the word but the whole NOTION of which has been stigmatized as 'bad') is PERFECTLY logical, in certain kinds of circumstances. If a person is causing trouble, you throw them out of the pub (that's what bouncers are for) -- that's discrimination. If you're a practicing Baptist, good luck joining the Catholic church (again, discrimination). Which set of clothes did you put on this morning -- over which others? Discrimination. Could I as a white joint the Nation of Islam? Probably not...again, discrimination. Discrimination is not only NOT bad and indeed permissible, but absolutely CALLED FOR, under certain circumstances. Tolerance is not always good, just as intolerance is not always bad. It's always circumstantial, and case-by-case...and I'm only sorry, Mary, that you chose the oh-so-easy, rubber-stamp and utterly WRONG approach of broadbrushing yet another entire concept, just because political correctness has made it easy to do so, and because you think no one will dare directly challenge the notion -- and we'll just 'shame them away' if they do, right? Well...it ain't happening. You really do need to become less cliche'd and more of a thinker. Take it as constructive criticism, because that's how I mean it.
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IrishAndProud | Sep 20, 2010, 09:37 PM EDT
I don't like seeing anyone in abject poverty any more than any other caring person (I sponsor a child overseas, myself) -- but folks, no nation can just let themselves be overrun with a foreign people who do not assimilate, do not contribute, and who further tax a system that's already facing financial collapse and cannot affort it. Deportations, like they're already doing in France, also need to happen in Ireland -- and that's not doing something just to be 'mean' but for national survival. Tough decisions have to be made here, folks...and Ireland (and the USA, for that matter, with its massive illegal alien problem) cannot just keep putting it off. These are serious matters that need serious attention, NOW. Our countries cannot -- I repeat, CANNOT -- keep going as they are and have been (turning a blind eye to massive influxes of foreigners). Deportation is in fact a solution. Saying 'You can't do that! How cruel!" is NOT a solution; it's just being a cheerleader of the unsustainable status-quo, for purely emotional reasons. And that is NOT an option. Oh, and lest anyone accuse me of never having interacted with the Gypsies in Ireland -- I have. I've been panhandled to (in Derry City), and I've heard it directly from business employees, in Donegal: they shoplift and steal, and you have to keep a close eye on them whenever they're in the store. My question is, what in the world are they even doing in Ireland, at all? THEY...SHOULD...NOT...EVEN...BE...THERE.
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maloney | Sep 20, 2010, 09:29 PM EDT
3 posters are bigots out of 12. 2 of the 3 love to bad mouth Americans for not liking muslims. Do as you say not as you do. what were the words? Racist bigot pig hater. What do you 2 think of the Jewish people?
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lostgold | Sep 20, 2010, 07:54 PM EDT
The Roma people originally came from India.Their real ethnic names and language point in this direction. They originaly started to migrate around the time of Christ as a result of war from the province of Bengal. This is a problem for the state of India to bring these people back home
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killowen | Sep 20, 2010, 06:14 PM EDT
Roma seems to be the lowest form of human that exist is what I'm told. Lovers of such need to
invite them home - its the only way to educate fools about a plague that keeps on giving. France is spot on - return them to their garbage dump
homes.
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LinLinisme | Sep 20, 2010, 04:58 PM EDT
There are wonderful Roma people and some not so wonderful. Every country and culture is like this. On a one-to-one basis--the Roma are just a good and bad as any other culture.
I like or dislike people for who that particular person is and how the treat me.
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eileenkny | Sep 20, 2010, 04:31 PM EDT
The first 2 commenters got it backwards-Ms. Brouder doesn't hate the Roma people. She's shining a light on those who do and showing why the hatred is based on a lie.
Why can't people just live and let live?
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Conor86 | Sep 20, 2010, 03:05 PM EDT
Why delete my previous comment? I am entitled to an opinion aren't i?
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jakeleg | Sep 20, 2010, 02:55 PM EDT
I understand gypsies doing what the can to survive,at least they are quiet and aren't killing each other like some people in Cincinnati
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bunchesofun | Sep 20, 2010, 11:55 AM EDT
Our adopted son is Roma. His birth family live in abject poverty. We try and help them some during the year but know it is never enough. Roma (at least in Ukraine) are targeted by the police and very much discriminated against.
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Ajreaper | Sep 20, 2010, 10:03 AM EDT
It is a sad state of affairs but I am curious will Irish Central writers take France to task for deporting these people as they have AZ new immigration law, SB 1070? I suppose it's just much more politically correct to hammer things "American" these days. I eagerly await the attacks on the French policy.
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IRISHKNIGHT110 | Sep 20, 2010, 09:39 AM EDT
I totally agree
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