Ireland turns on gypsies homeless
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 at 04:57 AM
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No matter where you go in Dublin’s city center, and many large cities, you’ll almost always find people sitting on the street begging for their keep. You’ll see young runaways, sullen addicts, and Roma people, often referred to as gypsies.Despite the fact that the Roma usually don’t exhibit addictions, have children with them, and maintain distinctly tidy appearances despite their meager means, it’s always the Roma people I hear my Irish friends and neighbors complaining about.
As France officially began deporting hundreds of Roma families this week, I took part in more than a few interesting conversations about this blatantly discriminatory new policy. Several of my friends were, like me, horrified, but I was surprised to see how many people fiercely supported the measure.
One friend launched into a tirade about the horrors of “the gypos.” When I pressed him to explain where his decidedly pejorative frame of mind about the Roma came from(perhaps personal experience?), he merely offered the usual, “they’re just rude, and so ignorant.”
In order to justify his bigotry, he offered, “They hurt their children to help their chances of getting more money from begging.” Did he have any proof to support such a horrid accusation? None.
It seems to me, from a purely logistical standpoint, that it would require a much more parenting to raise a disabled child on the street, rather than a perfectly healthy one. And for that matter, wouldn’t it cost more in medical bills throughout a child’s life than his parent could ever hope to earn from begging for change?
Even if that one didn’t make the most sense, he had another reason for his prejudice against them. “When you give them money, they pool it all together from all of their posts around the city and then when they get back to their camp, they divide it up.”
Well to me, that just sounds like an example of business savvy and good sharing, and certainly does not constitute evidence of crookery and inherent dishonesty, as he would have me believe.
As it so happens, I spent time with Roma people a few months ago while working on a documentary. My co-producer and I traveled around Hungary, to some of the most destitute and hopelessly impoverished slums I have ever seen. And yet I’ve never meet people as eager to open up their homes and hearts, as the Roma people in those neighborhoods.
All of the families we visited gave us three kisses on the cheeks – a Hungarian custom – and offered us coffee and literally every single scrap of food that they had.
One older woman spoke about having barely enough money to buy loaves of bread for her family members. She then laughed at the absurdity of being able to afford meat to put on those loaves. It was an awkward silence, full of shame and sorrow, that followed.
The Roma are not just poor people. They live in homes without proper heating, electricity, or sanitation.
They live in conditions that no human should have to endure, and if they were anything but Europe’s scapegoat for all of its financial problems, they wouldn’t be allowed to.
I spoke with Prof. Jack Greenberg, a civil rights attorney who spent time in South Africa during apartheid, and traveled through several Roma camps and neighborhoods. He said that the Roma living conditions were worse, by far, than any of what he saw in the South African shanty towns.
The lucky ones get out of the places where they’ve historically suffered from slavery, genocide, discrimination, and marginalization, to start anew in places like France, or Ireland.
And when they get here, they fight for every dime they get. Yes, I have had a few unpleasant experiences with Roma people aggressively begging on the street, but at the end of the day, if I had to rely on the charity of other people to feed my children, I’d fight tooth and nail to get any money I could out of our ungenerous citizenry.
A few days ago, I met had a chance meeting with a Hungarian living in Ireland. So I excitedly told him that I had traveled all around his country, documenting the plight of the Roma people. His facial expression turned from one of delight to disgust. “The Roma people?” he offered with a condescending snort.
“Have you been to any of the jails?” Well, no. “They’re full of Roma people.”
Interesting. I spoke about how a legacy of poverty and endless discrimination and marginalization leads to hopelessness, and often, in turn, crime. He cut me off, “The police over there, they are afraid to arrest anybody because they’ll say, hey you’re just doing it because I’m Roma.” He finished this last bit with a satisfied imitation of someone playing the “poor me” card.
I thought about it for a moment, and then I realized that didn’t make any sense.
“Well,” I asked, “are the jails full of Roma people, or are the cops afraid to arrest them? It can’t be both.”
He had no answer for this. He, like millions of others all around the world, had been fed a bunch of tripe about people that are different, and being inclined to dislike what it unfamiliar, he agreed to allow every reason he was given, to support his theory. Even if they were literally contradictory and illogical.
Discrimination is never logical. Nor is it permissible.
48 comments
Dublinjas | Sep 21, 2010, 08:09 PM EDT
Would the author of this Tripe take the Roma into her own home, And if she would , Why doesn't she do it and give us all fcuking peace.
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IrishAndProud | Sep 21, 2010, 05:15 PM EDT
cavantown, if you're referring to Irish 'Travelers' as they're known, they are Irish people -- and not the Romanian/Gypsie/Roma we're talking about, here. Two totally different ethnic groups.
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jimmy12003 | Sep 21, 2010, 05:06 PM EDT
they are just like the regular knac-kers we have to put up with here! law breaking cun-ts like the government we have!
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jacersagain | Sep 21, 2010, 04:51 PM EDT
(..contd) But you know what? I’ve never seen any one of the Roma people doing a day’s work to earn money. They simply beg on the streets, posing as street musicians. I’m sure that grey van comes to collect them all later in the day and brings them back to wherever they stay, only to repeat the exercise the next day and the next etc. What goes on then is anyone’s simple guess. My guess is that they are soft versions of mafia families whose only purpose is to collect money from gullible, charitable people, doing nothing to earn it. Much of the money collected is pooled then brought back to say, Romania or Bulgaria, to distribute and pay airfares for more Roma people to disperse around Europe’s main cities to beg, always with the intent to take the unearned money out of the countries that they solicit in. I can see where France’s President Sarkhozy is coming from and I would like to see the Irish Govt do something similar.
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jacersagain | Sep 21, 2010, 04:48 PM EDT
I agree with IrishAndProud on this. The problem of Roma people in any city of Europe is a big one. They arrive from wherever with only one purpose in mind – to beg for money on the streets. It is a highly organised matter. In Venice, I’ve seen black-gowned, head-covered women dispersed around the entrance to St. Mark’s Cathedral, one hand discretely poking out in begging mode; it’s clear that they all know each other, so it is an organised affair. I’ve seen it happen in a large town just outside Dublin where I saw a grey, windowless van arrive in the main street. It looked like any other delivery or tradesman’s van, with a sliding side door and back doors. The driver got out, opened both sets of doors and out poured about a dozen Roma beggars. He directed them to their begging spots around the street. Some carried an accordion, some a flute, some a guitar - all carried a collection box of some kind. Now, I agree that Roma people are peaceful people – they don’t drink, don’t start fights between themselves and don’t cause trouble like Irish Travellers often do. (contd..)
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sirpeter | Sep 21, 2010, 03:57 PM EDT
My post was censored too and deleted,for what reason I'm not sure,I guess you have to agree with the topic and feel sorry for the Roma people and say the French government are wrong and a bunch of bigots.
This is what the article is saying,but it must be bad if the french are deporting some Roma families,because history shows that the french have been very tolerant towards minority groups,unlike the history of a certain country west of Ireland.
I guess this post will be deleted too,because I agree with the french even if Henry cheated us out of the world cup.
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GeorgeDillon | Sep 21, 2010, 03:31 PM EDT
Cavantown: "Many Roma living in Ireland are Irish citizens". That's utter nonsense. Have you ever been to Ireland? Do you even know who the Roma are? You think the Roma and the Irish Travellers are one and the same? What a dope. Please, stop wasting our time.
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cavantown | Sep 21, 2010, 01:16 PM EDT
Even at 23,000...would that be about 1/2 of 1 percent of the population?
Would Romania and Bulgaria be part of the EU and therefore its citizens be extended the same rights as an Irish person's to live in another EU nation?
BTW Many Roma living in Ireland are Irish citizens...and who says that the rest of those living in Ireland are not there legally under Irish/Eu guidelines?
Check the government stats!
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GeorgeDillon | Sep 21, 2010, 01:01 PM EDT
Conor: "Why delete my previous comment? I am entitled to an opinion aren't i?" You're right, there is clear evidence of censorship by IrishCentral on this topic. I know of another posting which was censored, removed after it was posted. It supported France's posture in viewing Roma criminality and begging as unacceptable, but there was nothing offensive in the post. I assume the same is true of your posting, Conor. What's with the censorship, IrishCentral? No one is attacking the Clintons on this thread--no need for your censorship!
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GeorgeDillon | Sep 21, 2010, 12:57 PM EDT
cavantown--you show your ignorance. Roma are not Irish, they are from places like Romania, Bulgaria etc.
Really, don't burst in to a conversation when you know nothing about the topic.
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Justthefacts | Sep 21, 2010, 11:33 AM EDT
Cavantown needs to do the math(s). The figure 3 years ago was estimated at between 2,000 and 6,000 Romas in Ireland, with a figure of Irish travellers at around 23,000. These figures would not have gone down in the last three years. The figure in the UK combined is around 300,000 which is a conservative estimate based on caravan count 4 years ago.
The problem however is not the numbers. It's where they are. I liken it to someone pitching a tent on your front lawn and asking you for money every time you leave the house. You may allow them to stay and you may give them money, or you may ask them to get off your property. It's the same with the state, you either give them somewhere to live and benefits or you find ways to get them to leave. Obviously if they are not legal, then there is every justification in deporting them. (Ireland has limits on new EU members entering the Country). What is not acceptable is camping on private land.
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cavantown | Sep 21, 2010, 10:59 AM EDT
Of interest: Most Roma/ gypsies are Irish citizens by the fact that their
parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. have been born in Ireland.
As for cultural assimilation...it does not determine citizenship.
Highest crime rate in Ireland is amongst its non Roma/gypsy/traveler
communities.
BTW...2,000 out of 4,400,000 is what percentage? Do the math...
Research before writing on a public blog is probably a good idea!:)
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cabbagehead44 | Sep 21, 2010, 10:39 AM EDT
I agree with the writer. These people need help and not criticism. It's too bad that people will scapegoat them and blame them for causing problems that they are unwilling to address. There is an old Indian saying, "Don't judge anyone unless your have traveled 1M miles in their shoes."
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JBRAFTREE | Sep 21, 2010, 10:28 AM EDT
I'm confused. Have these people gone from being called Tinkers to Travellers to Roma in my lifetime????
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