The line of shame - thousands of unemployed Irish get in line to get out of Ireland
By: John Spain | Published Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:30 PM | Updated Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 3:30 PM
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| The Overseas Jobs Fair in Dublin two weekends ago attracted thousands of Irish |
No doubt you will have seen the pictures last week of the long line of people queuing to get into the Overseas Jobs Fair in Dublin. Effectively they were lining up to get out of Ireland.
It's a shameful thing, when you think about it. But the shame is not theirs.
The shame belongs to the politicians, senior civil servants, bankers and speculators who got this country into the mess it is in.
Inside the fair were exhibition stands with staff from companies in countries like Canada and Australia where they have shortages of skilled workers in all kinds of areas from cow milkers to carpenters, plumbers to painters, truck drivers to teachers.
Outside, the line started early, hours before the exhibition was due to open.
The organizers were taken by surprise at the scale of the demand, with 15,000 or so people turning up.
Eventually, as the day wore on, people in the second half of the line were told they had no hope of getting in. I heard one young woman who had driven up from Waterford being interviewed on radio. She had left home at five that morning.
Now she was going home again, without even getting in to see what was on offer and where. But she didn't sound bitter or angry, just resigned.
That's what being out of work for a couple of years does -- it beats the spirit out of you.
The Overseas Jobs Fair was happening in the RDS, the Royal Dublin Society's huge exhibition center and showjumping arena, just south of the city center. In another part of the complex, at the same time, there was another event taking place, the ard fheis (annual convention) of Fianna Fail. Such irony.
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Outside the RDS there were thousands of people lining up to get a job somewhere overseas. Inside, in another part of the complex, the political party which had ruined the economy was in session.
Outside, those in the jobs line looked worn out and depressed. Inside, Bertie Ahern was grinning away, shaking hands. Brian Cowen stood sheepishly to acknowledge applause.
The party delegates and members from all over the country - over a thousand of them -- were determined to show that, whatever about the mistakes of the past, the party is far from dead.
The new leader of Fianna Fail Micheal Martin, at least, had the good grace to sound embarrassed by the situation and to say sorry. He said he regretted the errors of the past, but he was focused on the future.
And there is such anger out there among ordinary people at the scale of the cutbacks in state spending that Fianna Fail could be back sooner than anyone thinks. As time passes the new government will be blamed for the cutbacks, not the old government.
At least Fianna Fail are contrite. Which is far better than being smug, which the present government manages to be in spite of the situation the country faces.
The present government has nothing to be smug about. Granted they inherited an economic nightmare, but their attempts to grapple with the situation and take the hard decisions have been unconvincing.
Last week they were a year in office and they have little to show for it. Over the past year they have failed to stand up to the vested interests here -- from the state sector unions to the wealthy professional groups -- and have instead squeezed the easy targets, mainly the middle class private sector people who can't defend themselves.
Last year, for example, the government put a new tax on private sector pension funds to pay for a new jobs initiative. This particularly sneaky tax will suck hundreds of millions out of private pensions this year, even though a lot of these pension funds are already in trouble.
The government wanted to be seen to be doing something about the 14% unemployment rate, but they can't get any money for their jobs schemes thanks to the new fiscal rules imposed by the EU and the IMF. So they raided private pension funds.
And how many jobs have been created by this initiative? None, of course.
In spite of what the Labor Party thinks, governments can't create jobs. The money has vanished into the black hole of general state spending.
The only policy this new government appears to have is a relentless positivity, an insistence that we have turned the corner, that we're not Greece, that we're on the path to recovery.
The line of people queuing to get into the Jobs Overseas Fairs in Dublin and Cork last week exposed just how wrong that view is.
Our economy is a mess, and thousands of bright young people are leaving the country every month because they feel there's no future for them here.
Meanwhile, the government is radiating sunshine as though everything is fine.
Instead of taking bold decisions to tackle the size and expense of the state sector we can no longer afford, they are tinkering at the margins of the problem. They are so afraid of provoking a reaction from the inefficient, overpaid army of state workers that they are failing to take real action.
Instead of new stealth taxes and extra charges on private sector workers and their pension funds, the government should be cutting its spending much faster so it can give people an incentive to work harder and expand business.
The scale of the problem is staggering, and it's worth recalling how it happened.
Before the boom here really got going, Irish banks funded most of their lending the normal way, from deposits. Once the boom took off, however, that was too slow and too limiting, so the Irish banks started borrowing from other banks, mostly in Germany and France.
In 2003 foreign borrowing by Irish banks was below €15 billion. By the time the boom was peaking in 2007/’08 the Irish banks had borrowed €110 billion.
Most of this was loaned out to fund property speculation here in a boom that was obviously unsustainable. The European banks involved in the gamble, and the European Central Bank (ECB) which was supposed to be regulating banking in Europe, should now be sharing in the cost of the crash.
Instead of doing so, however, they have insisted on getting all of their money back, and the ECB has insisted that the Irish taxpayer must carry all of the cost.
That has placed a huge burden on our national finances since billions have to be diverted every year from anything productive into simply repaying our debts.
This month, for example, we have to repay €3 billion of around €30 billion in debts run up by Anglo Irish Bank which is now being wound up.
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Unless the government can cut some deal from the EU on the promissory notes involved, we will have to go on paying €3 billion a year every year for the next decade for the debts of a private bank that doesn't even exist anymore.
That ordinary Irish people have to carry the cost of the lunacy that went on in Irish banks during the boom makes no sense. Yet in the warped world of international finance this is accepted as justifiable, if regrettable.
To their shame, the present government, despite huffing and puffing during the election, seem to accept this as well.
The result is that a huge amount of money that could now be helping us rebuild our economy is instead being sent out of the country to repay the foreign banks that speculated on the Irish property boom.
Most of them have been paid off by now, and to do so the government here borrowed tens of billions from the ECB. That's a big part of why we needed the bailout.
The other half of the bailout was needed because once the property boom here collapsed tax revenue dried up, leaving a huge budget deficit. The rising number of people out of work and needing welfare made the situation even worse.
Also, state spending here during the boom went completely off the rails and we are now left with a system of high welfare and benefits payments of all kinds that people have come to expect but the country can no longer afford.
Spending on welfare and the health system here almost doubled during the boom. Adjusting that now with close to half a million people out of work is going to be very difficult. But it has to be done because we're still spending almost a third more than we raise in tax revenue.
Rather than getting lost in the billions, let me give you just one example of how far state benefits in Ireland are out of line with most other places.
One of the most sensitive subjects you can raise here is the old age pension. In Ireland, you get what they call the contributory old age pension at age 66. It's €230.30 a week, which adds up to €11,975 a year.
In Britain the old age pension adds up to £5,311 a year, equivalent to €6,357 a year. So the Irish state pension is almost twice as much as the U.K. state pension.
The average pay of state workers in Ireland increased by 60% between 2000 and 2009. As a result senior civil servants here are paid around double what their counterparts in other similarly sized countries in Europe earn. Teachers in Ireland, for example, earn almost a third more than their counterparts in the U.K.
Yet any suggestion that old age pensions or pay for teachers or nurses has to be reduced is greeted with fury here. Any attempt to do so is likely to end up in street protests which could quickly descend into Greek-style chaos.
Another huge burden being carried by the taxpayer here is the enormous cost of pensions for state workers, which are guaranteed and paid out of current tax revenue (or state borrowing). They don't depend on stock market performance like private pensions. They are pitched at around two-thirds of earnings.
In some sectors (like the police), state workers can get them at age 60 or even earlier. The cost runs into billions for taxpayers every year.
Yet there has been no reform of the system to reflect what has happened to pensions in the private sector.
Other inefficiencies and anomalies crop up regularly. Last weekend, for example, the lead story in The Irish Times revealed that workers in the state sector taking sick leave costs us over half a billion a year.
Workers in the state sector can take seven uncertified sick days in a 12-month period without losing any pay. Or in other words, they can take a long weekend once a month for seven months of the year. If they are on certified sick leave (they get their doctor to sign a form) they get full pay for six months and half pay after that.
No one is saying that people who are sick should not be supported, but clearly this system invites abuse.
Similarly, no one is saying that state welfare payments and benefits should be reduced below what is necessary, but the wide disparity between benefit levels in our system and in the U.K. needs to be explained.
All of this -- and it's no accident that our senior civil servants and politicians are major beneficiaries of the system as it is -- is a drain on what's left of our economy and a serious blockage to our recovery.
Until we change it and until we stand up to the EU on the bank debt issue, the long lines of young people here attending overseas jobs fairs won't be getting any shorter.
31 Comments
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.MichaelMcGrath | Jul 25, 2012, 08:21 PM EDT
Actually in every day life we would refer to them simply as "The Guards" or "The Gardai" - but I have heard them, occasionally I admit, being referred to as "the police".
Bythebay | Jun 05, 2012, 02:47 PM EDT
It's highly doubtful John Spain lives in Ireland, he's called An Garda Síochána "the police". They're not called the police. He obviously was away with the fairies when all of this happened in Ireland and rendered mute at that time. His feeble attempt to belittle Ireland by labeling this shame only reflects badly on him, shame on him.
Bythebay | Jun 05, 2012, 02:38 PM EDT
John Spain has missed understanding Ireland's economic situation miserably and exhibits little or no understanding of how to remedy it. Not only does Spain not have any journalism training, he likewise has no econimic training or understanding.
MichaelMcGrath | Jun 05, 2012, 02:26 AM EDT
The Irish spawned famous children abroad , like The Beatles and JFK - and none of the Irish I knew in Britain back in th 60's or 70's knew where the dole offices were, and cared less. No Irish navvy would be seen dead drawing the dole¬!
MichaelMcGrath | Jun 04, 2012, 10:24 AM EDT
And btw the Irish not willing to work in lower-paid manual jobs has changed, there are more and more Irish working in and looking for jobs in Supermacs and Dunnes Stores for instance since the crash, so over the past four years that requirement for immigrant labour in Ireland no longer exists, so why quote the position of four and five years ago, Ciaradexy, and ignore the real situation in Ireland today, why parrot the old justifications for immigration that no longer exist in present day Ireland, why do you do that, what's your agenda ???
MichaelMcGrath | Jun 04, 2012, 10:18 AM EDT
So why quote Irish emigration to justify mass immigration into Ireland, where is the logic in that? The Irish don't emigrate to Nigeria or Pakistan , so how does an Irishman who decides to emigrate to the USA justify a Nigerian to immigrate into Ireland? I don't get that? Anybody???
MichaelMcGrath | Jun 04, 2012, 10:04 AM EDT
So, Ciaradexy, just because some Irishmen decides to emigrate to the UK, USA,Australia that means that Nigerians and Pakistanis are then entitled to immigrate into Ireland??? Nothing to do with the fact that the UK was our country up to recently in historical terms, nothing to do with the fact that the UK stripped Ireland to create England as the industrial centre of the UK, nothing to do with the fact that we are "immigrating" within the British Isles, that there are 44 million Irish-Americans because we were amongst the original people that made and built up the USA whereas Ireland has absolutely no links with Nigeria or Pakistan at all. So why should we let them in? To give them "new lives" though we can't afford a life for ourselves in Ireland now rated as a Junk Economy by the international credit agencies, that will probably get a second bail out loan at the end of 2014 to last us for two years to the end of 2016, what then? And in the meantime we have 80,000 immigrants here on the Dole, rent allowances, child benefits, health and hospital services and schools and universities for free and so on.....yet according to you "everybody who needs a new life is to be taken into Ireland" ??? BTW the community welfare officers pay immigrants the equivalent of the dole, rent allowance etc from the moment they enter Ireland for the two years residency until they qualify for the dole, but you conveniently didn't know that, did you?
MichaelMcGrath | Jun 04, 2012, 09:29 AM EDT
And, Ciaeadexy "everybody who needs a new life"is to be taken into Ireland? How, why, please explain???
MichaelMcGrath | Jun 04, 2012, 09:25 AM EDT
Ciaradexy, so now it's time to take in masses of immigrants into an Ireland with over 14 per cent, half a million unemployed? How is that?
ciaradexy | Mar 16, 2012, 05:48 AM EDT
That was it Dan! Her name is Audrey McLoughlin. She was there from about 1995 I reckon. She is from Roswell in Atlanta but now lives in LA. Small world!
DanOLoingsigh | Mar 15, 2012, 08:29 PM EDT
Hey Ciara..Georgia Tech? one of my boys studied there...civil engineering...when was your cuz there?
ciaradexy | Mar 15, 2012, 06:36 PM EDT
My cousin studied engineering in uni in Atlanta. She couldnt get a job when she graduated and she now runs her own clothing line in LA. She chose to study for a career that there was no call for at the time. The jobs in Ireland for the future will be jobs that require people to have a non EU language so we will have even more migrants into Ireland to do these jobs and thats just how it is. Like in EVERY country in tghe world, if you cant get your own to do the jobs, you get in the migrants who will. If someone is legally in my country and wants to work, then fair play to them. The Irish went abroad to work for years and we were taken in now its time to take in those who need a new life here.
ciaradexy | Mar 15, 2012, 06:32 PM EDT
Section4, so what are you suggesting my friend who runs the pub should do? Should he just cloes up shop or leave people standing around waiting ages to get served a pint or should he hire someone who is not Irish but who is here legally? There is a 2 year habitual residency rule in Ireland so you cannot claim the dole here. This law was introduced a couple of years ago when migration into Ireland started. There are very well paid jobs on Nixers. I live in Kilmainham and the Hilton here is constantly looking for staff and the pay is good. I dont need a job as I already have one but I got a job in City West hotel a few years ago on that site and it paid very well however, I was the only irish memeber of staff in the restaurant as we couldnt get Irish people to take the jobs. They wanted the much better paid jobs and wouldnt work for a tenner an hour plus tips. George, Im glad to think so highly of Sir Pete and I that you have done exactly what I said you would do! You are now using the nickname we gave YOU and are incorporating it into your posts! I am flattered!
Towngate | Mar 15, 2012, 06:14 PM EDT
John, a fine article. Pity you didn't include the Irish farmers who fleece the State with their Subsidies and hold the people to ransom. The Single Farm Payment for 'area' alone, is enough to make your eyes water! Unionised Public State and welfare payments are simply unjustified and the Child Allowance which increases with subsequent children is obscene. ~~~ The image of the 'dole queue' in the plush surroundings of the ROYAL Dublin Society is heartbreaking. It will take a very special person to stand up for ~ and TO the Irish people to save them from themselves. We do not have such a person; ... and the bitter truth is; that we never had! ... time to give Patrick a rest ... a Prayer to Saint Anthony,I think ~ the Patron Saint of Lost Causes!
GeorgeDillon | Mar 15, 2012, 03:29 PM EDT
Section4, you've written a number of good posts. You're wasting your time with SirDildo, note how he cursed at you. You see, he's a member of the Fianna Fail party, the party which brought Ireland to ruin and impoverishment. First they gave Ireland Mass Immigration, then they gave it Mass Emigration. The unfortunate part is that this creep hasn't emigrated yet, though outside the EU where they have to accept him it would be hard to think of where he could go.
section4 | Mar 15, 2012, 11:28 AM EDT
sirpeter, the thick stupid unemployed in america are american citizens and i would venture to say very few of them are stupid, yes uneducated and their mind numbed by TV, but more just not aware of how to get ahead in life, poor areas breed poor people and the state does not care because all business is interested in is profit and it is cheaper to brain drain people from less prosperous countries than for the state or companies to train their own people, so what you have is a constant churning of immigrants coming from less prosperous countries every generation, leaving their home countries brain drained and replacing americans or irish who have been used to good wage and conditions which the employer want to cut to increase their own profits and so are replaced by immigrants from countries where the standard of living is not so high and these dispaced americans or irish are thrown on the scraphead in the name of competitiveness, which helps no one but the business leaders. Take for example poland the poles come to ireland to do the jobs the irish suposedly wont do and the ukranians come to poland to do the jobs the poles wont do, its like a daisy chain.
joycean | Mar 15, 2012, 09:56 AM EDT
sirpeter, Actually,you can have a college degree (or several) and not get rich with it in America. Parents and students are paying $100,000s for degrees that aren't turning into job opportunities here. We have well educated Americans, like well educated Irish in Ireland, who aren't getting jobs, and have gone into debt trying to pay for these educations. Like Ireland, there are plenty of foreigners for unskilled jobs flooding in.
sirpeter | Mar 15, 2012, 12:02 AM EDT
Fu*k you.There is no shame.There is no blame.That's just the way life is John Spain.
sirpeter | Mar 14, 2012, 11:53 PM EDT
ciaradexy.Don't mind them they are as thick as sh*t.They know nothing about supply and demand.They don't know anything about economics.They don't know anything.What they don't understand is in America the thick stupid unemployed are to stupid to do the jobs that need to be filled in America and the unemployed in Ireland are to qualified to do the crappy jobs here.Americans will never understand that you can have a college degree and not get a job with that degree in Ireland.The question has to be asked what is the cost to parents to send their kids through college in the states?I bet everybody with a college degree gets a job in the states.
section4 | Mar 14, 2012, 07:32 PM EDT
ciara dexy, who buys the drink and food in your friends pub, irish people who just now have the money to buy it but if your friends and his like keep employing non irish his business will collapse because irish people will have no jobs and no money to drink in the pubs, its happening already.
section4 | Mar 14, 2012, 07:28 PM EDT
Ciara dexy, there is no party in ireland hat will do anything about the mass immigration issue, Sinn Fein are not nationalists they are internationalists, Gerry Adams said it doesn matter to him whether you are in Ireland 5 days or 5 hundred years you are irish to him, does not matter how you got in. The left have been used by the right to allow mass immigration into ireland in order to allow a pool of cheap labour which drives down wages and sets irish worker against foreign worker. The left have let the true working class down years ago, if you say anyhting about the immigrants they are the first to call you a racist. And the reason your friend will get a foreign person to do the job is simple, if you come from china and you earn 50 euro a week and you can come here and earn multiples of that of course you will take the job, if you are an irish person the wages dont make sense, so its not that the irish wont do the job, it does not make finacial sense, and furthermore if there had not been a milion immigrants let into ireland in thelast fifteeen years we would have a more balanced organic economy where wages and prices would more reflect the situation of a natural population growth instead od the artificial growth which the country has experience which was unnatural and caused the crash.
section4 | Mar 14, 2012, 07:09 PM EDT
ciaradexy, you are very niave, in the first instance a person from eastern europe who has 2 years stamps paid in his country is entitled to the social welfare and all associated benefits after just 2 weeks in Ireland, can you imagine what that means to some one from EEurope who may only earn 100 euro a week, its like winning the lottery, If they come from china or africa it is even more beneficial altho they would have to have 2 years stamps paid in the EU before being entiteld to the FULL benefits of the social welfare system in Ireland including a council house. In north county dublin over half the people on the waiting list for council houses are not Irish, there are 80000 foreign nationals on the Dole in Ireland, where it is far more benficial to be on the dole in ireland than to go back home to work, they will be on the dole in ireland for the rest of their lives because its finacialy better for them than working in their own country. Its strange how the 80000 foreign nationals on the dole dont take up your friends offer of a minimum wage job, they dont take it for the same reason irish dont, it does not make financial sense because the wages offered are so low, like the rest of the business class your friend wants to pay third world wages while charging first world prices. Have you ever tried for a job on Nixers,ie, NO thought not, that is a cattle market, they want work done for nothing. You need to get out more.
ciaradexy | Mar 14, 2012, 05:32 PM EDT
Merefallow! LOOK AT NIXERS .IE!! There are plenty of jobs! As I have said, my mate runs the Stags head pub and cant get Irish experienced staff! What should he do? Employ a non Irish person or stay stuck? if an American comes to Ireland with an Irish passport, they are still a foreigner! Should they get the job?
merefalow | Mar 14, 2012, 05:12 PM EDT
so when there isn't work for our own young ,are we still being flooded with people we cant find work for,?crazy politics going on here,we are ruled by bloody eurocrats.
ciaradexy | Mar 14, 2012, 04:32 PM EDT
George, the 'Left' in Ireland are parties such as the ULA who are pro equal rights for migrants. FF let them in and there is no anti immigration party in Ireland. You only have to look across to our nearest neighbour to see the reaction people have to anti-immigration parties such as the BNP. The majority do not support these parties and they are classed as racists and fascists so even those who do support them are afraid to say so.
ciaradexy | Mar 14, 2012, 04:29 PM EDT
Eamonn, whats your suggestion? People from outside Ireland can come here and work legally. Should we ban this? What do we do about the jobs on nixers .ie for example? Should we only allow Irish people (who may not be applying for them) to take these jobs? My friend runs the Stags Head in Dublin and he has been looking for bar man for the past 2 months. He has had no experienced Irish people apply for the job. My mate runs 2 desks in the Tourist Office on Suffolk st and cannot for the life of him get Irish staff so he ended up employing Spanish staff. What do you suggest these employers do when no Irish apply? People are complaining about the employer in Australia saying 'No Irish' on his ad and yet people on here seem to think it would be perfectly acceptable to employ 'Irish only' here!! We had little migration into Ireland because there were no jobs which we needed migrants for, that then changed. Our own were still emigrating back then for jobs and opportunities outside of Ireland.
GeorgeDillon | Mar 14, 2012, 03:43 PM EDT
Eamon12: Good post, but I don't agree with you about "left-leaning meadia". Mass Immigration is not a policy of the left--why would anyone who favors Irish workers' rights support the importation of hundreds of thousands of units of cheap labor to bring down wages and conditions? No, Mass Immigration is a policy of the rich, powerful and corrupt. In Ireland's case that means the Fianna Fail party and their cronies.
GeorgeDillon | Mar 14, 2012, 03:40 PM EDT
"The people queueing for these jobs abroad will not get visas for these countries unless they have skills and qualifications required." Believe it or not, our resident nut finally gets something right. But what she doesn't point out is that the migrants streaming into Ireland don't need any "skills or qualifications". Ireland is not just replacing its own people with foreigners--a truly weird policy for any country--it's replacing skilled workers with unskilled. That's why the welfare bill for the Irish taxpayer will keep growing until it breaks his/her back.
Eamonn12 | Mar 14, 2012, 01:46 PM EDT
@ ciaradexy..sorry to disagree but section4 is absolutely correct. We had almost no immigrants pre-mid 90s and Irish did all of the work you say they won't do. You are merely repeating what has been driven into us by the immigration lobby and left-leaning meadia.
ciaradexy | Mar 14, 2012, 01:22 PM EDT
Section4, where do you see these migrants into ireland working? Its the skilled irish who are leaving not the unskilled. If you want a job there are plenty on nixers .ie and I guarantee you, Irish people wont take these jobs. Migrants will work at these jobs because they dont have the welfare safety net the irish and other europeans have here. I work in a maternity hospital in Dublin and I can guarantee you that most babies being born there are to irish mothers who are on welfare and who have always been on welfare. Their kids will be on welfare and will never work an honest day in their lives. The people queueing for these jobs abroad will not get visas for these countries unless they have skills and qualifications required.
section4 | Mar 14, 2012, 09:31 AM EDT
again as a person living in dublin and donegal i have to ask why are people queing up to leave ireland due to lack of work while 10000 people entered ireland this year to date and 70000 were let in last yearm there is some thing wrong somewhere