How Irish gun laws would have prevented the Aurora massacre
By: John Spain | Published Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 6:39 AM | Updated Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 6:39 AM
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| James Holmes pictured in court on Monday (Credit: RJ Sangosti-Pool/Getty Images) |
One aspect of American culture that is incomprehensible to people in
Ireland (and probably the rest of the civilized world) is the attitude to guns and gun control.
We don't understand how such a simplistic insistence on "the right to bear arms" can prevail among so many people in America. And we don't understand why, given the absence of any meaningful level of gun control, anyone over there should be surprised when yet another shooting outrage occurs.
Watching the TV news here in the aftermath of the horror at the Aurora movie theater, people here were deeply moved by the anguish of the families and friends of the victims.
But as well as feeling sympathy, the unspoken question in everyone's mind here was a simple one --how can anyone over there be surprised?
How can anyone in the U.S. think that such outrages will not happen every now and then when ordinary people can possess an arsenal like the one accumulated by James Holmes?
Listening to the commentary by leaders and experts on the American TV news -- which many Irish people now get as part of their normal TV package -- it was notable how the fundamental issue of gun control was dodged yet again.
The
shooting rampage was discussed as a tragedy, as something impossible to understand, as something that could not have been predicted, as an outrage that could have happened anywhere, not just in the U.S.
No one was prepared to discuss the elephant in the room, the ease and speed with which Holmes was able to build up the arsenal for his killing spree.
When it was mentioned, it was stated without embarrassment that he had acquired the guns legally, even though they included semi-automatic weapons and thousands of rounds.
It was also emphasized that this was not the time for discussion about gun control, that any knee-jerk reaction in the wake of such a tragedy would be inappropriate.
Instead, the people of Aurora were urged to focus on rising above this awful atrocity by coming together to comfort and support each other and to begin the healing process.
Don't let the gunman win by going down to his level, they were told.
Don't let the gunman win by allowing his actions to degrade the community and its values. Don't let the gunman win by allowing Aurora to be defined in the future by the terrible thing that happened there.
This was the message put forward by community, political and church leaders in the aftermath of the shooting and seen by us here on the extended American TV news coverage.
It was also the message from ordinary people in Aurora who, although devastated by what had happened, were restating their values, their belief in how precious life is and how they must stand together with pride as a good and caring community.
All of which is laudable, even noble, showing us the best side of American culture. But the question is, is it enough?
Reporters and experts on American TV also spent time searching through Holmes's background, looking for an insight into the kind of young man he was and what stresses he was under, as though the answer to preventing a recurrence of what had happened could be found in that analysis.
But the answer won't be found there. As a response, that is not enough either.
So let's get down to the issue at the heart of all this -- gun control.
The fact is that there are young men under stress in Ireland and many other countries in Europe right now, but we do not see Auroras happening here.
There are isolated, resentful young men here, just as there are in the U.S. A proportion of them will become delusional and dangerous, just as happens in the U.S.
The difference is that here it is very difficult to get guns, and almost impossible to get automatic weapons and large amounts of ammunition.
If you have enough money and you're tough enough to deal with the criminal underworld, you can buy an old handgun or a sawn-off shotgun in
Dublin -- but even that is extremely difficult. A shy loner (like Holmes) would have no chance of getting a gun on the street here.
In the U.S., however, inadequates like him can do the paperwork and buy online or go into their local gun store and present an innocent face while they buy assault weapons more appropriate to a war zone.
The assertion on some American TV news shows that this kind of awful tragedy can happen anywhere and is not peculiar to America -- the Breivik case in Norway was cited several times -- is misguided.
There is a big difference in the frequency and character of these outrages in America. Cases like Aurora are much more frequent in the U.S. and their character is very different.
Breivik is a neo-Nazi nut with an extreme political agenda. Almost all the other cases in Europe also have political agendas.
The incidents in the U.S., apart from being much more frequent, are different because they are not usually politically motivated. Typically they are the work of inadequate men, often young men, who are escaping their private failure and isolation through a fantasy payback on the society they imagine is oppressing them.
The most obvious way of stopping them is to make it much more difficult for them to get guns. Yet that is something that America refuses to do.
Nor is it just shooting outrages like Aurora that is the problem in America today. The level of gun killings across the U.S. is so high -- an average of 84 people are shot and die as a result every day, with many more injured -- that it shames a country which calls itself civilized.
That's seven Auroras every day. Yet America refuses to do the one thing that would make a real difference -- introduce strong gun control.
The reasons put forward seem infantile to us, as though America is still living in the days of the Wild West.
There might have been some justification for carrying a gun back then. There is no justification for ordinary people having weapons in a modern society like the U.S. today.
The argument that the right to bear arms is a key part of the individual freedoms that make America the land of the free does not stand up to scrutiny. Yes it is a
constitutional right, but that does not mean it must remain forever.
In a healthy democracy, a constitution is changed by referendum as a society develops. What made sense in 1791 when the Second Amendment was adopted may not make any sense today.
And by the way, if you look at the wording of the Second Amendment it puts the right to bear arms in the context of having a militia ready to defend the state. So back then it was not seen as a fundamental right for the individual.That came later, most recently in Supreme Court decisions in the last few years.
The idea that true freedom must allow good people to have almost unrestricted access to weapons so they can protect themselves against the bad guys is flawed. It ignores the obvious fact that if there are very few guns around, very few bad guys will be able to get them.
What may be best for society may involve the curtailment of some individual freedoms. It's already clear from the statistics that states in the U.S. where there are lower levels of gun ownership have lower homicide levels.
The frequently heard gun lobby argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" ignores this. The fact is that the more guns there are around, the more people get killed with them.
The reason is simple -- killing someone with a gun is easy; killing someone with a knife, in contrast, is harder and also there are no automatic knives that enable you to kill a dozen people with a slight pressure of one finger.
There's no point in grieving for the Aurora dead if America does not do something about this because it's going to happen again. America needs gun control. That's the reality.
It's a reality that almost all other developed countries have accepted, even somewhere like Ireland, in spite of our much more recent fight for national freedom and our rebel image as the fighting Irish. America could do worse than copy what we have done here.
Basically in Ireland, you can't have a gun unless you can convince your local Gardai (police) that you have a good reason for wanting one. That reason is usually that you are a farmer or you want to use the gun for hunting in the countryside -- well over 90% of guns held here are shotguns and sporting rifles used for hunting or controlling vermin. These weapons are usually single shot and never automatic.
If your reason for wanting a gun is to do target shooting, you have to belong to a recognized gun club where very strict rules will apply. Almost no handguns (pistols or revolvers) are allowed in private possession outside of gun clubs.
Anyone who wants a gun here has to get a firearm certificate from the Gardai, allowing them to have possession of a specified type of gun, as well as a relatively small quantity of appropriate ammunition.
The license or certificate has to be renewed every three years. A separate certificate is required for each gun, and the Gardai are very slow to issue more than one to a person without good reason.
Handguns are severely restricted with very few in private possession, and those are limited to small caliber guns or air guns.
No one here seems to find any of this a problem. I don't have the latest figures, but the number of guns per 100 population in Ireland is around five. It's an insult to the intelligence of the American people that nothing is done about gun control once and for all.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.zalzan | Mar 07, 2013, 12:21 PM EST
Being of Irish descent, I am embarrassed for this author. In the past 100 years, 260,000,000 unarmed civilians have been murdered by their own government, or allowed to die of starvation. I am sorry, but the colorado theater and Sandy Hook and Columbine pale in comparison to the bloodshed that has occurred at the hands of armed soldiers against civilians. It is a disgrace to have to point this out to an Irishman. My ancestors came here from Wexford in 1810 to escape British tyranny. The 2nd Amendment is not just about personal defense. It is about knowing, unlike the idiot who wrote the article above, that the most murderous force on the earth is a politician with an army to command against unarmed people who disagree with him. Secondarily it is about national defense against infantry. If the Chinese dropped 20k paratroopers into downtown Dublin today, half the city would be dead in an hour. if they dropped in my neighborhood, they themselves would be dead in 10 minutes. I know I would take at least 100 on my own before I fell. The Irish who were slaughtered by neglect in the famine, did so while educated, civilized, happy politicians congratulated each other on eliminating a sub-human race. If you think this cannot happen again, anywhere, you are hopelessly stupid and deserve the consequences. They can take my gun from my cold, dead hands.
PLance | Dec 17, 2012, 06:52 PM EST
Folks in much of Europe seem to forget how easily a tyrant (Hitler) was able to take control of Europe (WWII), or they're sheltered or over confident thinking the same thing won't happen again. The new generations are doomed to relearn the lessons of their ancestors. If not for gun control, and the over confidence of Europeans in the 1930's, millions of lives could have been saved. Become lax again, and watch the next tyrants kill millions more as happens over and over throughout history. Your fathers and grandfathers thought society was too civilized for a person like Hitler to dominate them, but they were wrong. America's "Gun Culture" saved Europe's butt in WWII. If the Americans follow the lead of European countries with their over-confidence in imagined safety, there won't be anyone around to stop the next Hitler. The violence in America is not caused by guns. You would see it get worse if guns were all but eliminated. Guns help to equalize the playing field allowing a frail old woman to defend herself from a muscle bound gorilla or drug driven maniac - even when the maniac is also gun wielding. Our worst domestic massacres of recent years where the terrorist attack on 9/11 and the Oklahoma city bombing, neither of which involved firearms yet dwarf the body count of all our crazy gun involved massacres. The USA has nearly 10xs the guns of Russia, however the murder rate in Russia is double that of the USA. Mexico has tough gun laws, and it only embolden's their criminals. The lack of violence in Ireland is commendable, but it is not driven or aided by their strict gun laws.
dsarti1 | Oct 22, 2012, 10:48 PM EDT
Most of us Americans cannot comprehend the lack of willingness for Europeans to fight to keep their liberties and freedoms. If it would not be for America, right now Russia or should I say the Soviet Union would have been in total control of all of Europe, us gun toting Americans willing to fight for freedom is one of the few things keeping the world free. With illogic of the gun control groups and gun confiscation groups, the same logic would also have to apply to automobiles which kill far more young people and children every year than every firearm in the United States. Thus putting governors on all cars and not allowing them to drive over 60 miles an hour would save more lives than confiscating all the firearms. So if you really want to save lives let's start manufacturing cars that will not exceed the speed of 80 km/h.
murphy666 | Aug 31, 2012, 10:39 AM EDT
Wow, Ireland must be boring.
seanomelb | Jul 31, 2012, 07:03 PM EDT
schon my dear ex Brit grunt who served in Belfast killing nationalists. I never look do you inspect your coins everyday!! stupid little girl with a puerile mind.
ciaradexy | Jul 31, 2012, 05:44 PM EDT
Seano, who is this squaddie youre waffling on about? By the way, Im moving to Connemara. Kinda far away from where you are in Queens country. Hows it feel getting to see the Queens face on your money everyday??
sirpeter | Jul 31, 2012, 02:32 PM EDT
@Nikademus.You sound like you live in Dodge with all those guns you have.I had a fierce urge to put on the theme music to the movie the Good,the Bad and the Ugly.For fu*k sake you have more chance of shooting yourself playing with your "toys" than you have been shot by someone else.Also people who carry guns are far likelier to get shot – and killed – than those who are unarmed.The problem is guns give a sense of empowerment that causes carriers to overreact in tense situations.It can easily happen.Ask the British army grunt Schon how many kids they killed in NI because they were shi*ting themselves out on patrol.I,m glad you were not in the movie theater.One madman was enough killing people.
Mohawker | Jul 31, 2012, 02:18 PM EDT
Yeah it wasn't too long ago being drawn and quartered was the play of the day in the public square shame it's gone could use a little of that home town punishment in today's prisons diffenetly would make the worst criminal think real hard twice even the phyco's.
sirpeter | Jul 31, 2012, 01:21 PM EDT
@curtisjohnson.You are spot on.Britain's imperial atrocities around the world are an never-ending on going list.
Desty | Jul 30, 2012, 11:58 PM EDT
Excellent article, with some good points raised. I also find it disturbing and exasperating how the media feel compelled to apologise to the gun lobby crowd when these mass murders happen. "Now is not the time" my hole. Now is exactly the time. And people keep arguing that "yes, but if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. Then what?" - maybe, but the outlaws will have LESS guns. And more importantly, it's _not_ the outlaws, the gangsters, the hardened criminals that are the problem. It's the mentally unstable lone nutjob who one day gets really frustrated and decides to carry out mass murder, easily arming himself with multiple automatic weapons and boatloads of ammunition. The so-called outlaws are not the problem. "Normal" people with easy access to guns are the problem. Besides, right now, if the cops find a known gangster on the street with a loaded weapon, they can't do anything. Even if they know the gangster is up to no good. If guns were illegal, then you could cart off those gangsters to jail as soon as you catch them with a weapon. Another win!
curtisjohnson | Jul 30, 2012, 11:13 PM EDT
The british campaigns of worldwide terror and nation mugging make even the Islamic lunatic extremist appears as choir girls by comparison. Nearly all of the hotspots in the world, including Iraq, Afghanistan/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine, and the occupied statelet, are products of britain's imperial atrocities and incompetence. Most of these countries are artificial creations cobbled together to pit bitter ethnic enemies against each other to prevent unity against imperialism (Iraq being the textbook example; although less realized, Southern Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan constitues the area defining the traditional Pashtun nation).
seanomelb | Jul 30, 2012, 07:15 PM EDT
Ciaradexy is aligning herself with a British squaddie who served in the north who assisted in the murder of nationalists children. She is a good west Brit without an Irish soul.I suppose we can judge her by the company she keeps
Mohawker | Jul 30, 2012, 06:00 PM EDT
Being as Ireland is appox. the size of the U.S. state of Georgia how in the Lords name can anyone make any such comparison ? Live free or die as long as theres a sword or gun in my hands .Any good Viking knows that .
ciaradexy | Jul 30, 2012, 04:13 PM EDT
Schon, seanomelb, has lived in Australia for most of his life. A country where the Queen is figure head! maybe he hates the Brits so much because he financially contributes to her commonwealth?
Schon | Jul 30, 2012, 05:36 AM EDT
Seanomelb if we gross up the figures that your glorious murdering heros were responsible for the figures would be; US 220,000 (your figures) and 800,000(4000 * 200) population of the North approx 1.5 Million. So, what is your point! Also I have no animosity to anyone who is not trying to kill me, my family or friends. A number of my teachers and lecturers were Muslim and a number of the teachers in the State school I attended were Roman Catholic. Hell, my sister and brother both married Roman Catholics one of which was in the RUC. I work for a small company employing a number of Muslins, Hindu's, Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox Catholics, and protestant. My bodd is a Muslim. So you inference regarding my ethics are wrong on all counts as is you opinion on most of your posts. You are a disengenious, unschooled heckler whose ability to prove a point is limited by your inbred hate of the English.
Schon | Jul 30, 2012, 05:27 AM EDT
Nikademus' argument is strong, why should the criminals be given any advantage; if the population is armed and educated, it can defend itself. THe US is huge and lwas enforcememnt is not always readily available. In 2000 there were over 20,000 firearmm deaths in the US while less than 250 were caused by police. Gun owning in many European countries and Canada is quite high while firearm deaths are much reduced compared to the US. The Constitution gave its citizens the right to bear arms to prevent either invasion or the establishment home grown dictatorial rule. The reason there is more deaths in the US is tat it is a more violent society, probably due to drug crime. Deaths from firearms were higher in the 1980s and appear to be dropping towards the post World War II fiugures.
Schon | Jul 30, 2012, 05:11 AM EDT
Seanomelb dissembling again... Once the Muslim Brotherhood entrench their holding in Egypt and marginalise their military we will see the women becoming disenfranchised. Libya will suffer the same ends as will Syria in the event that Assad or his regime is removed. I wish the Muslim countries were moving towards democracy, unfortunately, their democracy will be fueled by ethnic divisions much like those existing in Northern Ireland today as has been seen in the aftermath of the liberation and democratisation of Iraq. Try reading the news from different sources and maybe you will understand the situation. Women are being disenfranchised in the 'new democracies' or Iraq, Egypt and Tunisia. But that suits the murdering republicans and their apologists; remember the IRA both Provos and Officials, had lots of support from Muslim terrorists and Gadaffi. But none from the over thrown regimes that were Iraq and Egypt.
LolaJoyceJames | Jul 30, 2012, 01:12 AM EDT
Maybe you don't have the volume and horrific crimes we have here - ask any woman who's ever been attacked, any person who's been awakened in the middle of the night by an intruder, anyone who lives in a neighborhood rampant with gang members, anyone who has to travel through really bad neighborhoods, or who works the night shift, or who has to carry large sums of money or valuables, or anyone who's ever been stalked, or is a VICTIM of crime here in the USA and lived through it! For women, the elderly, and those who live alone - our 2nd Amendment rights are inviolate.
seanomelb | Jul 29, 2012, 07:21 PM EDT
Good on Yer!! Nikademus a gun fight in the theatre. BTW almost 4,000 people died in the north during the 20 years of "war" in the north in that period 170,000 died from gunshot wounds in the good old U.S of A and add to that 50,000 killed in Vietnam(5'000 of those by friendly fire) and what's your point.I read today that your Right wing justice Scalia stated on fox that there is a limit to "article two" and actions should be taken in the courts to "control" gun totin freaks like you.
Nikademus | Jul 29, 2012, 04:34 PM EDT
Hmm lets see, there are a LOT more people in the US, a lot more diverse cultures TRYING to live together. And all of your irish gun laws sure did a whole lot of good when people where blowing each other up in the streets of your cities. Hmm how many terrorist bombings happened in either "Ireland" vs how many happened here in the US. MILLIONS of gun owners DO NOT kill people every day. BUT i will be damned if I will give up my guns just so some criminal can have them and not me. If you are content to live as a sheep then be my guest. I my friend am not, I have firearms, i have a concealed carry permit for the state that i live in. I HAVE NEVER SHOT anyone, but I will tell you this, if I had been there you can darn well believe that I would be shooting back.
seanomelb | Jul 28, 2012, 06:42 PM EDT
Typical schon misreads my article(deliberately) and condemns the Arab spring and Arab states moving toward democracy The US was attacked by Saudi nationals,one of your pro western Arab states where women cannot vote or drive a car. At least in Libya,Syria an Egypt women could vote and wear European styled clothes and drive a car and have a university education and will be far better off when the turmoil settles and they have full democracy.I can now enter into my posts your ethnic bias against Muslims.BTW when I entered Australia there was no sign over the door telling me to leave my political beliefs behind.Your post is sad, means spirited and full of disdain for anyone who is not British
Pittsburghkid | Jul 28, 2012, 02:59 PM EDT
Hitler outlaw guns in the '30. Hitler had his Holocaust in the '40. Today the Disarmed German People are blamed for the Holocaust.
Schon | Jul 27, 2012, 10:32 PM EDT
seanomelb. You're right there. The world is now paying the price of terrorism excused as freedom fighting in Ireland and Afghanistan in the 1970's and 1980's. The failure of the Yanks to identify terrorism as bad with their official and unofficial support has enboldened the terrorist while at the same time bewildering the lawful world community. The US suffered from the effects of this terrorism in their 9/11 experiences. And you criticise the Brits for their clamping down on civil freedoms in Northern Ireland! What about the US and their 'police actions, first to deposed a head of state that never attacked them and then to wipe out al Quaeda but fight the Taliban instead. We are now seeing Arab countries being taken over by fundamentalist regimes to the detriment of their women and the stability of the Middle east. Terrorism, the killing of un-involved peoples is wrong, to promote your view over a disinterested majority or to cajole a minority, no matter whole participates in the act. Your attitude is strange. An Irishman who emigrates to Australia; why? But you want to force a large majority of people in the North to live in the Ireland that YOU LEFT! That is beynd the height of hypocrisy! If it's such a great place, why did you leave? What are you a typical Irish money grubbing git, or are you looking out for the future welfare of your family? The latter is what the majority of people in North are doing.
seanomelb | Jul 27, 2012, 07:37 PM EDT
The IRA handed in their weapons schon. You as an ex grunt who served in Belfast may call the terrorist.As you know one mans terrorist etc...I suppose freedom fighters in India and Africa were terrorist and Thatcher (and Reagan) both defined Mandela as a terrorist.Do world events confuse you or are you just an ex serviceman living alone in his council flat pondering where is the Empire!! What happened!! the sun now sets on the empire! I'll let you in on a secret the freedom fighters or terrorist as you Brits call them won and Britain is just another country in Europe it all must be so sad for you schon
Mohawker | Jul 27, 2012, 02:29 PM EDT
Your right BrianO the real threat comes from the natural redheads of Northern Ireland especially Belfast but not limited to .
BrianO | Jul 27, 2012, 12:34 PM EDT
Outlaw Orange dye and the problem is solved.
Schon | Jul 27, 2012, 08:33 AM EDT
Whoa up there... that post from IrelandNorth was really from me, me ol' seanomenolb! The one starting 'Hold on a bit...'. Can't have other people take such an intellect as yourself on for me, now, can I?
IrelandNorth | Jul 27, 2012, 08:09 AM EDT
To access the incomprehensiblity of something to someone, it would be necessary to conduct a survey rather than presume to speculate on their behalf. "Ireland, like the rest of the civilised world"(?) Reminds me of a quote attributed to Mathatman Ghandi who, when asked what he though of western civilisation, said he thougt it would be a good idea. John - brevity is key!
IrelandNorth | Jul 27, 2012, 07:01 AM EDT
Hold on a bit... we have seanomelb, the apologist for murdering republican terrorists advocating an amnesty. Does he mean like the one in Northern Ireland. Well Sean, me lad, it hasn't worked here. You see, as so many other people have posted, only law abiding people would hand in their weapons. People are still being shot here and in the South. Canada has a higher per capita gun owning culture than the US while their murder rate with fireamrs is miniscule compared to the US. Last year they had 554 murders, 170 of which were firearms related. One thing that springs to mind... in UK and most other modern countries, a prison sentence for crimes against property is not overyly onerous. Criminals caught usually give up and do their time, which is usually short. In the US prison sentencing, in general, is open ended with cumulative sentencing for crimes common. In short, criminals don't want to get locked up for a long time, especially in prions with violent and degrading conditions, so they will resort to nearly anything to prevent being caught resulting in a much more violent society. Also prisons in US are intimidating while the European standard rates up there with Michelin 3 to 4 Star Hotels.
IrishAndProud | Jul 27, 2012, 02:35 AM EDT
EXACTLY, Pecos Kid. The IRA and other paramilitaries (whether you support their armed struggles, or not) were able to acquire guns and explosives, etc. for DECADES...and still do, btw. As is said...when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Another one I like is: "When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away."
seanomelb | Jul 26, 2012, 09:23 PM EDT
what Mohawkers really means by his trash bins remark is the carpet bombing of innocent civilians, killing children with drones, pissing on dead Muslims or shooing dogs on naked men in Abu Ghraib or me lai massacres we know his bigoted type.
Mohawker | Jul 26, 2012, 06:32 PM EDT
sirpeter and sir I use lightly you seem to be just another ingrate not wanting to admit your a loser and needed bailing out . Sorry my friend we yanks aren't bailing you europeans , and you are european if you don't know it ,out anymore as soon as we get rid of this muslim we have as a puppet idiot as president .By the way good luck kissing those royals rearends it's gotten you far .
Pecos Kid | Jul 26, 2012, 03:09 PM EDT
Funny, how did the IRA get their weapons and explosives? If someone wants to kill lots of people, they WILL find a way!
sirpeter | Jul 26, 2012, 02:36 PM EDT
Mohawker.Thanks for policing the world's trash bins.Find anything useful? I hear empty pizza cartons are a good source of cheese.
JBRAFTREE | Jul 26, 2012, 11:18 AM EDT
Why was my comment not printed? It was the truth and was the opinion of probably 80% of all combat veterans of which I am one.
Kilsally | Jul 26, 2012, 11:05 AM EDT
What a silly article - Irish gun laws don`t stop the dissident IRA and criminal gangs having their shoot outs in the Republic or Northern Ireland - just yesterday a dissident Republican IRA man was shot in both legs in some sort of inter-Republican spat or maybe drug deal?
Mohawker | Jul 26, 2012, 10:05 AM EDT
Damn near all the rest of the world owes America a fee which can't be counted in dollar value even up to today for having to police the world's trash bins from any further mishaps at our expence ,the American citizen . This defunk U.N. should be kicked out and off of our sacred soil for it is made up of misguided losers, again at our expence, ever since it was formed . So when you look around breathing free air thank an American .
michaelidaho | Jul 26, 2012, 10:04 AM EDT
Spain makes some good points in this article. However, he repeats a common misconception that greater gun control equals less crime. (Ex. “It's already clear from the statistics that states in the U.S. where there are lower levels of gun ownership have lower homicide levels” ). There are so many exceptions to this rule I could point out, but I will just use one example. In Boise, Idaho, where just about everybody has a gun and acquiring one is as easy as buying a potato, the city has a much lower homicide rate than much smaller cities across Massachusetts, where the gun control laws are just as strict as they are in Ireland. In fact, Boise has a lower homicide rate than the city of Cork but has twice its population. Certainly it is plausible to argue that greater restrictions on the type of weapon and amount of ammunition a person could purchase might make it more difficult to pull off another Aurora. However, to assert simplistically that greater gun control is going to dramatically reduce crime is simply naïve.
Mohawker | Jul 26, 2012, 09:47 AM EDT
Way to go Ms.McVeety and Mr. McKenzie these people who are against firearms seem to be all of the European continent of whom we the people of the United States of America saved their miserable asses from German domination . We even suppied them with American made weapons to help defend their sorry lives . I do applaud the people of Europe of taking care of our cemetaries filled with American citizens armed with firearms to help give Europe back to its original owners . Otherwise just keep your mouths shut concerning America's ways . By the way please vacation elsewhere maybe a communist country .
briandelaney | Jul 26, 2012, 05:51 AM EDT
Hi ColleenMcVeety, why not check Wikipedia before you comment? Ireland, and most of Europe, has a quarter the homicide rate of the USA. And strict gun control. Think these things might be connected? Also, as this website is called IrishCentral, can you see that there might, perhaps, be an Irish angle on some of the stories here?
michaelcollins | Jul 26, 2012, 04:51 AM EDT
i thought americans would be use to this sort of stuff by now.......there biggest export is murder
seanaci | Jul 26, 2012, 01:50 AM EDT
Well spotted, ncjessica125! I would feel safe around you armed or unarmed.
Kevin Longan | Jul 26, 2012, 01:08 AM EDT
The point that I had not seen addressed is that guns are BIG business in the States; we are a huge exporter of arms plus our people are massive consumers. I am ex-military and own 2 small-caliber guns for protection but that makes me neither a gun nut or advocate for mass slaughter. If gun control is enacted, what is to be done about the literally millions of black-market weapons that will inexorably be flooding the streets? Then we would be like England, unarmed police and criminals armed to the teeth. Just saying..
sirpeter | Jul 25, 2012, 11:28 PM EDT
Americans pay a heavy price for the right to own firearms.Look at the state of the guy's head.Unstable is written all over him.But then there is more killings with the horseless carriage than with guns.Millions die from lack of adequate health care.What should we control first?An untimely death is routine for so many.Besides who should worry about the odd loon killing a few innocent people.Keep your eye on your governments though.Past experience tells me they do killing on an industrial scale.
aloistmartin | Jul 25, 2012, 10:58 PM EDT
Imagine a World where only The English, The Criminals, and their Fat Kat, Boss Man, Polititian`s, have all the Iron ? LOL !
ColleenMcVeety | Jul 25, 2012, 10:31 PM EDT
Kpliedel....I am with you on that. This man should not have been able to purchase that much ammo. Out of 315 million people, these things are bound to happen as they happen in countries where guns are illegal and are the size of one state in America. Overall, this is a very safe country. One of the reasons it is safe is because of our second amendment. We should be watching our fellow man/woman much closer for mental issues as there are always signs when someone is unwell mentally.
kpliedel | Jul 25, 2012, 10:20 PM EDT
Colleen McVeety, Ireland also knows how to use bombs. I for one, don't think this clown should have been able to stockpile so much ammo, but had someone in that theatre had a gun, maybe things would have been different. And as of today, gun sales are up, people want to be armed and know they can protect themselves. Just because a country doesn't have gun crime doesn't mean they don't have crime. I would rather be shot than knifed.
ColleenMcVeety | Jul 25, 2012, 09:44 PM EDT
Now let me get this straight. The people of Ireland...who are now controlled by the UK as they owe a massive debt to them, and then Ireland being about the size of the state of Maine...IS GIVING US ADVICE? What a joke. Give it up..you are looking mighty foolish. We have a constitution, perhaps you should get one, while you are on your knees that is.
ncjessica125 | Jul 25, 2012, 09:40 PM EDT
Seanaci- It is probably a good idea before you post a comment complaining about typos that you make sure your post is typo free.
RthrBHistCorr | Jul 25, 2012, 09:30 PM EDT
apologies for typo, autocorrect got the better of ne, that of course should be "I am all for GUN (not GONE, but if they were all gone that would end the matter) control
paco | Jul 25, 2012, 09:27 PM EDT
Despite the fact that the U.S. constitution was written by anglo-saxons it is just fine as is. Folks like Reneida M. scare me. The non sequiturs of seanaci do as well. I hope my typing is OK! Good night all.
RthrBHistCorr | Jul 25, 2012, 09:26 PM EDT
"The fact is that there are young men under stress in Ireland and many other countries in Europe right now, but we do not see Auroras happening here." Really John? I think your bias is getting the better of your Judgement. What about Anders Behring Breivikwho killed 69 people in Norway last year? Whar about the recent Jewish School Massacre in France? What about the Dunblane Massacre in Scotland? You would look less the pompus fool John if you checked your facts before ranting and your bias at the door. Don't get me wrong I am all for gone control, but to claim a Euro Superiority on this matter is absurd
DMcKenzie | Jul 25, 2012, 09:12 PM EDT
maureenharkins - you should check your facts, you'll find your dead wrong. And for the record, if it weren't for us violent gun loving Americans a few of which were my relatives all of Europe would have been lost to one of the biggest madmen of them all. We earned our hard fought freedoms and some may not like them and even disdain them, but they aren't up for debate. Europeans kowtow to their governments and that is your way so be it. Just a few summers ago France was ablaze in fires, people there couldn't protect themselves or their property. Be civilized it is all so wonderfull. America will never be occuppied nor will we ever have a dictator, we'll never bow to our government. More than any other country on the face of earth Americans know that there is a cost to being a free nation, we've paid that price in blood many times over and I suppose we'll keep paying it over and over. My freedoms aren't yours to take away, or tell us how to run our affairs......
seanaci | Jul 25, 2012, 09:05 PM EDT
Anyone else noticed the high incidence of typos, grammatical errors and misspelling in the posts from gun supporters? Very worrying that the people so fond of of having lethal weapons seem to be ignorant, careless and/or unable to operate a keyboard correctly. Maybe we do need to be protected form them after all.
Renelda M. | Jul 25, 2012, 08:45 PM EDT
To John Spain: Seldom do I read an article of which I totally agree. This is one. I am an advocate for a new and improved U.S. Constitution. You stated the reasons for this much-needed change far more eloquently than I. Thank you, sir.
jflanagan | Jul 25, 2012, 08:37 PM EDT
The United States ranks 52nd in the world in intentional Homicide rates and behind Great Britain, France and 9 other European countries in violent crime rates. Gun Control is a placebo and a waste of paper. These murders happen in open and controlled countries and people get a false sense of security with useless laws.
rfo | Jul 25, 2012, 07:34 PM EDT
I guess the Irish prefer to stab innocent people or just beat the Jaysus out of them on Stephen's Green!
paco | Jul 25, 2012, 07:33 PM EDT
I don't expect person in the 'civilized' world to understand the American attitude toward guns and firearms nor do I care. It seems to me that nobodys hands are completely clean (norway for example). I agree there should be a way to keep guns from falling into the hands of disturbed people. The majority of gun owners, including myself have never shot or will shoot anyone.
ncjessica125 | Jul 25, 2012, 06:56 PM EDT
Seanomelb. Maybe there are alot of people in Australia that would hand in there guns but I gaurentee you it is not the same over here. People who don't commit crimes are not going to trust that all the criminals are going to be honest and turn in there guns. Sadly there is a butt load of bad people in this country and being offered market value for their guns is not going to make them all come out and turn them in. These people like to hurt people and giving them a couple hundred dollars is not going to make them change their ways. If you don't live over here and see all the bad that happens everyday then naturally you wuold not see the reasoning behind my arguement. With all the crime that happens here everyday I feel much more secure knowing I have a gun in my house to protect my children if it came down to it.
Belphagor | Jul 25, 2012, 06:48 PM EDT
Seanomelb i get you now, you are Australian, the melb is for melbourne?, i thought you were half irish Half Spice Girl. Back on topic, Guns are tools which are used to cause suffering, whether used by a policeman, soldier or a private individual. This American infatuation for such murderous tools isn't surprising and neither is the Governments unwillingness to even discuss it. The US are supposed to be world leaders, a superpower and a civilized western society, they talk about Freedom, Democracy, Justice, The American Way but it isn't for me. Any Western civilized democratic society who spout on about Justice and then send two teams of heavilly armed special forces illegally into Pakistan and murder a man who has never faced charges for his alleged crimes and then for the US President to comment afterwards "Justice Was Done" is a society with so many contradictions and way beyond saving. I say give the land back to the native americans and return to your original homeland.
FallsRNat | Jul 25, 2012, 06:45 PM EDT
Gun laws don't work because they only apply to lawfully abiding citizens, most countries have significant numbers of illegal weapons held by the criminal community, only when some way is found to take these guns out of equation, then a proper gun control law can work.
seanomelb | Jul 25, 2012, 06:23 PM EDT
Australia had a mass murder(Port Arthur)1996,since then gun laws were tightened and an amnesty for for those handing in guns whom did not have a license and payment (Market Value) for the hand in of legal weapons, assault weapons were banned.We have now had 16 yrs without any such crimes. The last two posters fail to make a common sense argument for the retention of guns.
Daytonavejim | Jul 25, 2012, 06:06 PM EDT
How did that kind of thinking work out for Eire in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries?
kcceltic | Jul 25, 2012, 06:03 PM EDT
This is all good and well for the Irish people. I have grown up with guns in my house and I own several. Our ownership of guns has prevented this great nation of ours from being invaded. The axis powers of WW2 didn't even try to invade the US because of our guns. This sick individual would have created mayhem by other means even if guns were banned. Stop trying to mold the only country who hasn't been conquered to the ways of those who have had been conquered. Until you live like we do don't critize us.
Curitiba | Jul 25, 2012, 05:56 PM EDT
ncjessica: Well, James Holmes was a law-abiding citizen, right up to the moment he went into the cinema and started his rampage. We are told that England is awash with weapons from the former Soviet bloc, but why aren't we seeing gun rampages on a daily basis? Good question. We have had several gun rampages here, and each time the gun laws are tightened, making it more difficult for deranged people to get hold of weapons, and consequently gun massacres are prevented as a result. Murders still happen, of course, but you cannot kill as many people with a knife as you can a gun. You say that you need it for self-defence, but the burglar or mugger is not going to wait until high noon until you pull out your gun-he's going to shoot you first if he thinks you are going to get shot. Take guns out of the equation and you are more likely to get a non-fatal outcome.
Schon | Jul 25, 2012, 05:48 PM EDT
How many people are killed in the US with knives? In 2004 there was 1866. Same year there was 9326 deaths from firearms. Do you want to ban knives? Hell, do that and you still have 933 deaths from fists and kickings. We can save even more people if we ban cars; in 2004 there were 42,636 traffic fatalities.
ncjessica125 | Jul 25, 2012, 05:33 PM EDT
Making the gun laws sticter would do nothing to solve the problem. It just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to arm and protect themselves. Even if it became impossible to obtain a gun in the states it doesn't magically make all the ones already owned disappear. There would still be and endless supply of guns for criminals to get a hold of if they want one that bad. The only people gun laws hurt are the people who obey the laws. It might be hard to come across a gun to illegally buy in some countries but over here in the states unfortunately it is very easy. Tougher gun laws will just make it that much easier for someone to commit a crime with a gun because they will have more confident that there victim will not be armed to fight back. We will never be able to get rid of the millions of guns already in circulation so the only way to help curb gun crime rates is to make sure everyone has a chance to purchase a gun legally if wanted so people can protect themselves. Even if James Holmes wasn't able to purchase the 4 guns, he was obviously determined and would have found an illegal way to get the guns. It is not that hard over here. I am almost done rambling.Yes it sucks that someone this crazy can just go purchase a gun but he would have got it either way.
Gracie1 | Jul 25, 2012, 05:23 PM EDT
You hear them say that guns don't kill people - people with guns kill people. No kidding! But people who are stressed, paranoid, mentally limited, mentally impaired, under the influence, etc. who have been able to hide their deficit can buy guns within a few hours at a store (at least in Colorado). They can also buy thousands of rounds of ammunition on the internet without anybody wondering why this one person is accumulating such a stockpile of bullets. That is just no acceptable. NRA be damned - this is NOT what the founding fathers intended. This is a case of many "little" people whose egos are about the biggest and brightest thing about them. Europe is doing just fine with higher population density in many locations and nobody getting hurt with guns. This posting is so true and makes excellent points. What IS wrong with Americans who don't feel safe or whole or powerful or authoritative without a gun or guns? What is wrong with people who feel they must be armed to feel whole? What inadequacies in themselves are they supplementing with the weapons? I have noticed that the majority of the men I have met, even in Colorado, who feel a need to collect guns frequently aren't terribly effective in other areas. Just saying . . . and the Second Amendment never said every idiot who feels afraid has a right to arm him(her)self and shoot if (s)he feels threatened. Yes, it is VERY SAD that Americans, in their refusal to give up their guns, have created such an environment of fear and terror. Sadder still is that the citizens of "THE LAND OF THE FREE" are ceeding their freedoms for gun ownership. Pretty flipping sad, indeed.
motljoe | Jul 25, 2012, 05:13 PM EDT
Every progressive stooge trumpets the gun control horn ; the fact that this theatre had a no cocealed carry policy and that this borundanga brain washed medical school drop out , who didnt have a wooden nickle was armed with $ 15,000 .00 WORTH OF MILITARY GEAR . Stuff the cops don't even have and neither do any of us permit holders . Where did he , Mr. No Brains and no bucks come up with this stuff ? Ever since Hitlers gun control to exterminate the Jews ; the anti American european communist have been trying to force this issue on Americans through the Vatican controlled UN . The only people who benefit from gun control are the criminals who will never have any problem getting the means to rob and kill honest folks because no law apply's to them . We have a predatory corporation disguised as a federal government . And as we've witnessed from Obama ; no lie or unlawfull act is too big for him ; three years of lies is enough .
mmmmikkimac | Jul 25, 2012, 04:56 PM EDT
While I don't mind each adult being allowed to own one rifle,one shotgun and one handgun, there is NO reason for assault weapons to be allowed by anyone other than law enforcement or the military. The Second Amendment and the Right to Bare Arms was written so as to protect citizens from having the govt confiscate their weapons, which at the time, were needed for hunting in order to provide food for their families. In 1776, there were no grocery stores or convenience stores. People raised cows, pigs and chickens, along with sheep and goats and also hunted for wild animals as a supplement to their food supply.
pilib04 | Jul 25, 2012, 04:01 PM EDT
KRISDALY, please keep to the Amendment and not what you think it should say. That simply continues the NRA big lie. The Second Amendment as passed by the states reads: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
pilib04 | Jul 25, 2012, 03:53 PM EDT
I do not understand how John Spain can write such a lengthy article with the appropriate research and still is unable to land on one irrefutable fact: the National Rifle Association own's the United States Congress, lock, stock and barrel! No law, big or small, regarding gun control can be passed. The NRA also controls the executive branch and the judicial branch. The Supreme Court does their bidding and the President will not interfere. This is why you do not hear about proposed assault weapon ban legislation when there is a tragedy. This is why you are not allowed to speak about limiting the amount of ammunition during a tragedy. The NRA completely controls the discussion including what is said in the churches. Only when the power of the NRA is broken can there be any hope for change. However, given the strength of the NRA, don't expect that too soon. Mr. Spain, a country that allows concealed weapons in pubs/bars is completely beyond the pale. Now they want to bring them into sports arenas and stadiums.
seanaci | Jul 25, 2012, 03:45 PM EDT
In a wake-up call for all ardent supporters of the 2nd Amendment. The Army - or at least the Northern Command - is setting aside the Posse Comitatus Act and calling your bluff. “During the Democratic/Republican National Conventions, Department of Defense personnel will support the U.S. Secret Service,” a Northern Command spokesman said in an email."
BulldogMania | Jul 25, 2012, 03:43 PM EDT
Seriously, are liberals this stupid? Come on, no joking around...do liberals really think that if the US had tougher gun control laws this kind of thing wouldn't happen? This guy is a nut AND a criminal...two segments of the population that tend to ignore laws...including gun laws.
patrickesq | Jul 25, 2012, 03:05 PM EDT
It is too bad that your thoughtful, rational article would generate so many thoughtless, abusive responses by those delusional people who believe that their guns are going to protect them from a tyrannical government, or some lunatic shooting at them with an assault rifle. In America's Democracy there is no right to armed insurrection. Our Constitution provides several means of peaceful redress of any grievances, not the least of which is the right to vote for your elected officials. Even though the majority of Justices in the recent Heller decision found an individual right to bear arms, despite the clear historical intent of the Constitution to limit this right to militias, there is no constitutional right to own and use assault weapons. It is time that Congress did its job to protect innocent people from these horrendous assaults.
krisdaly | Jul 25, 2012, 02:31 PM EDT
The Right of the People to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED! A firearm is nothing more than a last resort tool against tyranny (evil). This evil can be from criminals, governments, or the mentally insane. How about bomb control?
Celtlaw | Jul 25, 2012, 02:22 PM EDT
Remember: The genesis of America's Right to Bear Arms was the American Revolution and the right of every citizen to rise up against an oppressive government. If people are unhappy about the 2nd Amendement, then change it!
sbennett | Jul 25, 2012, 02:18 PM EDT
It's not suprising to me that someone who does not live in the United States could wonder how we would allow an average citizen to own an arsenal such as James Holmes. Most foreigners do not/ have not known what it is for their government to fear it's people. The US is unique in that it elevates the 'Individual' right above that of the government. We have a 'Gun Right' to protect all other rights endowed to us in the Constitution. The minute that right is removed from the Citizen, the government no longer fears it's people and becomes just like any other government in the world, causing it's people to live in fear of oppression rather than basking in the light of freedom. Mr. Spain, your envy of our rights is very transparent. Here, Here to forever greeting the tyranny of the majority with a loaded weapon at my front door!
Nicomax | Jul 25, 2012, 01:53 PM EDT
Of those 84 people shot dead on average each day, only a tiny number of them, less than two, are the result of a gun being used to protect themselves or their property. Thus the self-defense or 'stand your ground' reason is not enough to allow weak gun control laws to persist. The damage is only magnified by the ready access to weapons commonly used in war fronts allowing for mass destruction in public areas. A former governor of Massachusetts, now running for POTUS, said it best when he signed an anti-assault weapons ban several years ago. This could be his more helpful flip backwards if he had the courage to do so, and this applies to the current POTUS, who up until recently, was just as committed to banning such weapons. Both of them should dust off their "Profiles in Courage" book for some guidance.
Springfield9 | Jul 25, 2012, 01:42 PM EDT
Put simply, the Second Amendment to the American Constitution was put there to allow the people to remedy government tyranny (if that should occur). IN Europe people fear their government. In America the Gov't is aware that the people have firearms. The Supreme Court of the U.S. affirmed the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. In 1940 Admiral Yamamoto (Imperial Navy) was asked if an invasion of America might be practical. He simply said "there is a gun behind every blade of grass." I have the C-96 Mauser pistol my Grandfather used during the Irish war for Independence. He once commented that everything he had to say to The Crown came out of that gun.
cynicus | Jul 25, 2012, 01:37 PM EDT
Murderous massacre of its innocent people is the price the US pays for its crazy gun laws. Collateral damage? Price of Freedom?? Like it or not, that is now the way it is. Americans 'must be allowed to defend themselves against all those barbarian hordes of armed, foreign savages that are swarming into the US intent on wiping out each individual in the country!' The massacred innocents, of course, could not be protected from murderers by these loyal and patriotic gun-toting heroes!! Seems they can only operate agsinst (non-existent) foreign enemies!!
missecho | Jul 25, 2012, 01:28 PM EDT
Thanks for posting this common sense. It is sickening to witness the ongoing craziness, and the reaction after each of these terrible incidents. The routine is that everyone is supposed to feel shocked, heroes at the scene are identified, and then "the grieving process" begins until the next time we are supposed to feel shocked. Why anyone, anyone, needs a machine gun in a theatre or anywhere else is beyond me. These right-wind nut jobs who think they need these guns are actually the most cowardly, non-Christian people in the U.S. today. Through their support of the NRA, well-funded by the gun manufacturer's lobby, they allow this carnage to continue unabated. Tombstone Arizona in the late 1800's--the Wild West. Wyatt Earp had everyone check their handgun at the sherriff's office while they were in town. No longer--now everyone can carry around machine guns. What progress.
Schon | Jul 25, 2012, 01:18 PM EDT
I must say I am amazed at the God damned cheek of the author of this article. Mr Spain forgets that the history of Ireland has been a history ruled by the gun. His assertion that you needed to get permission from the Guards to hold guns flies in the face of fact that the various branches of murdering republican terrorists, i hope, didn't have the Guards permission to own their weapons. Unless Mr Spain is implying that the Troubles in the North were sanctioned by the Eire government. (Now thats a thought!) And this ability of the murdering republican terrorists to keep weapon caches in the South, people in the North needed their weapons for protection; that is the legally held weapons. The murderers of both the republican and loyalist persuations also needed their guns to kill each other, rob banks and post offices ... oh, and kill innocent people. Nearly forgot about them; over 3000 innocent people. Easy thing to do, isn't it Mr Spain!
Mohawker | Jul 25, 2012, 12:56 PM EDT
P.S. Mr. Spain one more note opinions are like that thing between the cheeks of our butts everyone has one and yours is exceptionlly large which means you odor is that much stronger , good day .
jerrydonovan | Jul 25, 2012, 12:53 PM EDT
I own a couple of hand guns.My son has 4 or 5 shotguns which he uses for hunting.He was a member of the N.R.A..He quit this organ isation because he thought that it was too extreme.I agree with him.There can be a happy medium in gun ownership but forces like the N.R.A. are not interested in dialouge. Lets face it they say greater enforcement of existing laws is what we need.Mybe so but if they were being honest they would prefer to remove all gun control laws.By the way have the courts ever ruled on the absolute right of the individual to bear arms.i don't believe that they have.I believe that according to the second amendment that it is a conditional right.
Mohawker | Jul 25, 2012, 12:49 PM EDT
Mr. Spain : Why in the Lords name is everyone coming to America ?? Second : anyone with half a brain can make bombs out of all sorts household products that can cause much more damage and carrnige . Third: Ireland wouldn't have been under English rule for hundreds of years and dominated by English to this day if you folks were set up as our Constitution of the United States of America , and other famous and sacred documents written by our Forefathers , has aloud us our rights and freedoms and kept those butchers from around the world at bay like the ones we the people sent packing two hundred some old years ago from our shores . Afterall we tell you you should be drinking German beer now do we .
shop tom | Jul 25, 2012, 12:39 PM EDT
Only one who's vision is limited by the inside of his naval would pen such tripe as this. There are no laws or restrictions that would have stopped Holmes. In fact, he was encouraged by the "no weapons" policy that the theater forced upon it's patrons. Holmes KNEW he would be the only one armed. We do have the NRA to thank for it's continued defense of our rights to self-defense. I once thought that I would like to live in the land of my father's grandparents. But I will never live in a land that does not allow it citizens the right to self-defense. I find Irish gun laws to be demeaning and self-defeating. Truly, dis-arming the public leaves only those who don't follow the law in possession of guns. THAT is insanity.
maureenharkins | Jul 25, 2012, 12:26 PM EDT
This is the best article I have read so far on the subject. Mr. Spain is absolutely right. In 2012 in a civilized society we have to change our wild west way of thinking. DMcKenzie's comment below about England having the highest violent crime rate in the world is not quite correct. The UK does have the second highest crime rate in the world. Guess who the first is. Yay USA, we're number one!
Caspertfg | Jul 25, 2012, 12:15 PM EDT
It appears that most of the writings are from the NE or those in large cities, and have those who have limited knowledge and opinions about firearms. We in the rest of the country, especially those in the country, see things differently. Firearms are for hunting or just shooting for expertise or pleasure, not killing others or self defense. We usually know those around us, know their families or know something about them. I.e., we are better aware of our surroundings.
EamonnDublin | Jul 25, 2012, 11:54 AM EDT
What an amazing article you have penned Mr. Spain! I have no idea how he has the downright cheek to say "we" (the Irish people in Ireland), when he really should say "I". When spouting rubbish, Rule No. 1 is always "speak for yourself, not for the community" - otherwise you make the whole community appear rubbish. And I resent that. Surely John Spain knows full well that any half-arsed wannabe criminal can get hold of a gun in Ireland. If he wants to put his Liberal ideas on gun control forward, let's at least have a little bit of any evidence he has that serious gun control reduces crime and gun killings. I have never seen any. But, back to the point, Mr. Spain must be looking through the old rose tints to think that there is gun control in Ireland. The only people who possess guns here - apart from the legally held ones, mainly by farmers - are the criminals. And no, not just serious criminals - as I said above, half baked idiot ones as well. I suppose Mr. Spain also thinks there are no illegal immigrants in Ireland, no forced marriages and "honour killings and beatings", no foreign terror groups (Islamism) using Ireland as a base for money laundering? Oh, and yes, I can provide evidence. Éamonn, Dublin.
hyattsville | Jul 25, 2012, 11:51 AM EDT
I think it’s incredible that someone can purchase any amount of firearms without raising any alarms, yet meanwhile if one goes a little extravagant in purchasing certain over the counter cold meds the pharmacist is required to report you. Why aren’t there such laws for people purchasing deadly weapons? I guess we have the NRA and certain republicans to thank for that.
hyattsville | Jul 25, 2012, 11:48 AM EDT
What an amazing article you have penned Mr. Spain! I have no idea how he has the downright cheek to say "we" (the Irish people in Ireland), when he really should say "I". When spouting rubbish, Rule No. 1 is always "speak for yourself, not for the community" - otherwise you make the whole community appear rubbish. And I resent that. Surely John Spain knows full well that any half-arsed wannabe criminal can get hold of a gun in Ireland. If he wants to put his Liberal ideas on gun control forward, let's at least have a little bit of any evidence he has that serious gun control reduces crime and gun killings. I have never seen any. But, back to the point, Mr. Spain must be looking through the old rose tints to think that there is gun control in Ireland. The only people who possess guns here - apart from the legally held ones, mainly by farmers - are the criminals. And no, not just serious criminals - as I said above, half baked idiot ones as well. I suppose Mr. Spain also thinks there are no illegal immigrants in Ireland, no forced marriages and "honour killings and beatings", no foreign terror groups (Islamism) using Ireland as a base for money laundering? Oh, and yes, I can provide evidence. Éamonn, Dublin.
ArmaghCity | Jul 25, 2012, 11:46 AM EDT
I am an American that is an advocate of tighter gun control. For you NRA-types, is it REALLY necessary for you to have legal access to these rapid-fire automatic weapons?? Shouldn't a handgun, or a rifle, be enough for you if you want to protect your home, and/or go kill animals?
FastEddy | Jul 25, 2012, 11:22 AM EDT
Not! The guy was on very esoteric drugs and totally crazy and quite smart: He would have found another way to kill without guns. In Australia they have rolled back their nanny state gun laws so anyone can have them now, and thus the gun violence has significantly decreased there.
DMcKenzie | Jul 25, 2012, 11:18 AM EDT
I guess that I can't really expect you to understand how Americans feel about our right to bear arms since the Irish have never had that right. Of course I don't understand the violence that has plagued N.Ireland, the bombings and killings of inocent people. I don't comprehend how England can have the highest level of violent crime in the world with their strict gun laws. I think its fair to say we all have our problems and the difficulty trying to deal with them. It's easy to cast stones at each other, to pick one another apart and accuse one another of this or that. I feel your article is shallow at best and lacks any sort of validity - but hey that's just me and I'm just a 10th generation Scots-Irishman who's family fought and beat the Brittish from our gleaming shores and created our own way of doing things for better or worse. America - Love it or leave it!
Slaeghunder | Jul 25, 2012, 11:17 AM EDT
"How can anyone in the U.S. think that such outrages will not happen every now and then when ordinary people can possess an arsenal like the one accumulated by James Holmes?" Let me explain it to you , as an American with that "incomprehensible" point of view. We don't think it won't happen. We also don't think it won't happen if guns were banned. It WILL happen. There will always be terrible people who do terrible things, just like there will always be car accidents, tornadoes, hurricanes, riots, cancer, and any number of things that cause senseless deaths and cut people's lives short. The main difference between random natural disasters and bad people is you can SHOOT bad people. Unless you don't have a gun. Then you go from maybe having some chance (slim or no) to save your life and the lives of others, to simply being murdered like a fish in a barrel.
joma5004 | Jul 25, 2012, 11:09 AM EDT
No guns? No problem! Use BOMBS! A killer will ALWAYS find a way to kill,
aeblizard | Jul 25, 2012, 11:02 AM EDT
I like to go by a little saying... If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns... It's so easy for criminals to get guns on the black market as it is, so taking away our gun rights would only create defenseless Americans who are terrorized by criminals with their illegal guns. It doesn't matter what laws you create, criminals will still get guns just like they get cocaine. Where I live, there are many criminals who wander the streets, and it's frightening knowing they could break in. That's why we have guns, so we can protect ourselves. Criminals will always be criminals, but we can't allow the American people to become defenseless against them.
jamthecat | Jul 25, 2012, 10:50 AM EDT
All well and good, but it's too late for gun control in the US; that should've happened 30 years ago, before the NRA became a religion. Now we're past the point where it will make any difference. Just read some of the asinine comments below and you'll see how impossible it now is.
bogsidebunny | Jul 25, 2012, 10:30 AM EDT
Why not send this article to all the North Dublin gangs who are better armed than the Irish defense forces? Or to the Dundon & McCarthy families (Travellers) in Limerick who have been caught with MAC-10's, Glocks and other heavy artillary? And, by the way, have murdered numerous people without any justice being done. Naturally in Saintly Ireland where you blame the sin and forgive the sinner the only people who aren't armed are the honest citizens. Hand gun shooting use to be a sport in Ireland with a small number of citizens licensed to own 9 mm handguns for trget shooting at an approved gun club. Then the 21 Garda district superetendants got together and decided to confiscate them all. Since they were all "registered2 with the Gardai it was easy. Confiscation at the whim of 21 incompetent stooges without any legal backing. It went to the courts several years ago, but the stall tactics of a country, which doesn't believe in self-responsibility and supresses free speech will probably see the former gun owners dead before any action is forthcoming. Gun crime is rampant in Ireland and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
thumpdrum | Jul 25, 2012, 10:16 AM EDT
Journalistic idiocy! John Spain, I am calling on your to tun in your press credentials as you apparently have no ability to separate your journalistic integrity for your liberal judgement. You have no sense of your countries own history or struggle, nor any sense of the current surge in Irish crime since the Celtic Tiger boom. It is sad that Irish Central has allowed this piece.
JimmieM | Jul 25, 2012, 09:59 AM EDT
No comparison....The British kept Ireland defenseless for 800 years or so...if Ireland had means of defense the British would have had let Ireland be Irish a lot sooner They couldn't keep the colonies disarmed....Indians, and distance, you know So they could not keep the United States from forming....So yes if you would like to live under the thumb of who ever has the guns then by all means take all means of defense away from the commoners...the peasants...the cropies and we the conquered can go back to living very simple lives.
jackinnj | Jul 25, 2012, 09:46 AM EDT
Thomas Jefferson was the one who thought that it was useful for the public to be armed, as protection against tyranny. Do you think it would have been useful for the Irish to have been equally armed in the 16th century?
nana2127 | Jul 25, 2012, 09:34 AM EDT
I think that more restrictions or making it more difficult for us to buy guns should be done. Automatic weapons & ammunition should never be sold. Why would I our any other law abiding American want an assault rifle and tons of ammunition to go with it. To protect their property? That should be a red flag right there. Selling Guns or ammunition of any kind over the internet should be illegal. The criminals or the bad guys though will always have access to these guns and not just an old used handgun like in Dublin either.
pepcaone | Jul 25, 2012, 09:24 AM EDT
We don't have to take the guns away, just regulate what guns we can have. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, needs an arsenal of auto and semi-auto rifles. Leave those to the military and police. If you want a gun, a pistol works just as well. It's not the type of gun that does the damage, it's the projectile that comes out of the gun that does the damage.
Tericonnolly7 | Jul 25, 2012, 08:55 AM EDT
Be very careful to react here.....if you take the guns from the people you take the guns from the police....enforce the laws on the books first. I am not NRA I am just an American that likes having a few of our rights still intact...just be careful to not over react here
pepcaone | Jul 25, 2012, 08:18 AM EDT
The problem here in America is most of us live by outdated philosophies. The right to bear arms was fine in the 1800's when many lived in the middle of nowhere and outlaw justice was prevalent. These days the right to bear arms takes on a different meaning, but I believe there are more people that would use guns for something other than protection. The gun laws here in the US need to change, not drastically, but change nonetheless.