Across The Pond


Paddy Duffy Blog Picture
Across The Pond by Paddy Duffy

What’s the point of a United Ireland? - Martin McGuinness' presidential campaign raises questions

Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 at 06:50 AM

RSS


Recent Posts

Archives

submit to reddit

Martin McGuinness
Last week’s column on Martin McGuinness has, to say the least, prompted a great deal of debate. While a lot of it was regarding the rights or wrongs of the circumstances of McGuinness and by extension Republicanism in general, some involved the nature and rationale of the conflict itself. But really, what possible reason could there be for a united Ireland?

There are certainly no logical reasons for such a move. In a lot of cases, it seems to me, the desire to unite Ireland comes from a deep-seated case of geographical obsessive compulsion: Ireland is an island, that stands alone on the north Atlantic, and having another country administering a small part of it is just plain messy. The anti-partition school of thought in favor of a United Ireland is related to this, in as much as they claim every political problem from social inequality to the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa could be solved by scrubbing the border.

And then there’s the good old irredentists, the ones who maintain the Brits are occupying the six counties and that Ireland is for the Irish, whatever the hell that means. None of these have any real life application. I’ve lived on the border basically all my life and I don’t understand the fervency towards what is and has always been an infeasible pipe-dream.
_______________
Read More:
Gay Mitchell slammed over throwaway suicide remark

Martin McGuinness says Irish public don’t care about his IRA past


McGuinness accuses Fine Gael of ‘Black Propaganda’ as election race turns dirty
______________


The reality is that green post boxes in Strabane will not make Strabane any happier or more prosperous a place to live in. It will not make the villages between Strabane and Derry that paint their curbs red, white and blue and brandish union flags and ensigns any more favorable to Ireland, or any less attached to Britain. It will not change the fact that whatever the nationality of the people who live in those villages, they can probably trace their family roots as far back on this island as anyone.

Besides, a lot of Donegal Catholics have Scottish planter lineage too who converted at some point along the way. They’re hardly more Irish because of that. Britain handing over the deeds to Northern Ireland would not have any positive transformative effect. Combining our forces will not create a land of milk and honey.

As the recent Life and Times survey bears out (see link above), this isn’t a niche opinion. Most people in Ireland, northern Catholics or otherwise, are much more concerned about tackling social and economic matters than eternally gazing through a national prism. Besides, Ireland has always been much more complex and interwoven than the irredentists like to imagine.

Taking Donegal as an example, we have much more tangible connection with Glasgow than we do with Cork, lovely a place as it is. It’s much easier and quicker to get to Glasgow from Letterkenny than it is to Cork too. People where I’m from who live in the Republic often do a lot of their shopping, socializing and even working across the border, the presence of which forms no impediment to traveling or interacting. In Padraig Pearse’s proclamation nearly one hundred years ago, he talked about freedom and liberty, about equal rights and opportunity, about pursuing happiness and prosperity.

As our access to the world and its different cultures becomes greater and greater, so long as we fight for those principles does it really matter what flags are flying overhead?


45 Comments

15 - 45 | See all comments

A united Ireland ?, Im Irish i live here and i was born here but im in my 30s...Its the year 2012 and the Irish goverment can barely run the south of Ireland never mind inflict the North of ireland with the same mess. I think Martin would be far better off forgetting about our British neighbors who we now all get on great with and FOCUS on the Germans who now practically run Ireland and are next to take over the EU banking system .. Its time to move on and focus on whats relevant now and as this paper focuses mainly on Americans with sentimental Ireland you dont have a clue whats going on over here in the year 2012 ...
Ireland SHOULD be United! Or country was stolen from us and only 4/5 was given back! anyone who disagrees with sinn fein or a united Ireland should be ashamed.. Our ancestors weren't butchered and imprisoned for nothing.. and o i don't want more violence and i don't hate britain but i believe in what's right and hat's right is an Ireland free of borders and free of discrimination.. ONE IRELAND GREEN AND PROUD! btw i'm 17 so don't bother accusing me of being sectarian or a religous fanatic.. UNITE!!
Ireland should be reunited - absolutely. The republic should rejoin the United Kingdom. How can the tiny states of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland - even England compete in the modern world independently - impossible. All current economic decisions about the Republic of Ireland are made in Germany who see Ireland as an irrelevant island so distant from its centre - more of an nuisance. It is a ridiculous situation when its closest neighbour is an hour away by boat and shares an irrelevant land border. The ROI shares a deep cultural connection especially when at least 5 million mainland British are Irish. The whole idea of a separate Ireland is stupid -just plain mythical 19th Century nonsense causing thousands of lives for an illogical cause for the delusional uneducated few. Each state can have their own flags and emblems but economically and culturally they are one - think music, football, arts and entertainment and more importantly science and technology and higher knowledge - they have been integrated for centuries. And yes they have shared a enormous amount of bloodshed as has every human culture and race. Get your heads together and rejoin the UK and stop being a backwater.
Ireland should be reunited - absolutely. The republic should rejoin the United Kingdom. How can the tiny states of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland - even England compete in the modern world independently - impossible. All current economic decisions about the Republic of Ireland are made in Germany who see Ireland as an irrelevant island so distant from its centre - more of an nuisance. It is a ridiculous situation when its closest neighbour is an hour away by boat and shares an irrelevant land border. The ROI shares a deep cultural connection especially when at least 5 million mainland British are Irish. The whole idea of a separate Ireland is stupid -just plain mythical 19th Century nonsense causing thousands of lives for an illogical cause for the delusional uneducated few. Each state can have their own flags and emblems but economically and culturally they are one - think music, football, arts and entertainment and more importantly science and technology and higher knowledge - they have been integrated for centuries. And yes they have shared a enormous amount of bloodshed as has every human culture and race. Get your heads together and rejoin the UK and stop being a backwater.
Ireland should be reunited - absolutely. The republic should rejoin the United Kingdom. How can the tiny states of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland - even England compete in the modern world independently - impossible. All current economic decisions about the Republic of Ireland are made in Germany who see Ireland as an irrelevant island so distant from its centre - mor of an nuisance. It is a ridiculous situation when its closet neighbour is an hour away by boat and shares an irrelevant land border. The ROI shares a deep cultural connection especially when at least 5 million mainland British are Irish. The whole idea of a separate Ireland is stupid -just plain mythical 19th Century nonsense causing thousands of lives for an illogical cause for the delusional uneducated few. Each state can have their own flags and emblems but economically and culturally they are one - think music, football, arts and entertainment and more importantly science and technology and higher knowledge - they have been integrated for centuries. And yes they have shared a enormous amount of bloodshed as has every human culture and race. Get your heads together and rejoin the UK and stop being a backwater.
Paddy I have friends in Fermanagh too, and they consider themselves nothing but Irish. Very hard not to to in a county where so many of the place names are all of Gaelic origin.
As an Irishman living in Ireland I feel compelled to point out that since it began its campaign in 1969 the IRA were never supported by even a majority of Irish people living in Northern Ireland, still less in the Republic, where they remain an illegal organisation. They were responsible for over 1700 murders during the troubles, more than the loyalists and British security forces. Combined. Many of the people the IRA murdered were Irish, so is it any wonder than so many here in Ireland are disgusted at McGuinness running for President? How would Americans react if a man who endorsed an organisation responsible for that American deaths ran for the White House?
Brilliant article! Sometimes I think that Irish Americans are more upset by the border than the people actually living there. I have heard arguments that if NI was returned to the Republic that the pro-English faction would go on a rampage and there'd be anarchy. I've also heard that neither the British nor the Irish governments actually want NI as it's more trouble than it's worth.
Ha, cheers Towngate, always appreciate your comments! I also appreciate that this is a very emotionally charged debate and people will always have strong opinions about it. However, Ernesider: while I respect your fervency for United Ireland I can't understand why me simply expressing an opinion would make you so angry as to invoke GBH. Or worse, Henry VI! I have friends in your own home county of Fermanagh who would never consider themselves Irish, not out of spite, they just simply don't consider themselves such. I think therefore we need to think beyond the old school solutions and try and move in lockstep, where people can feel free to be whatever they want and leave the bad old days of imposition behind. I've seen some of your comments elsewhere on the site, like with the Bosnian family, and you seem to be a compassionate sort of person who values looking after your fellow man, stances I completely agree with, so there's really no need bring phrases like "jailtime" or assumptions into the conversation.
Paddy: you certainly got a few feathers flapping and flustered with this Post. All the usual suspects and even a few new ones too! ~~~ With The Dauntless O'Dowd hopelessly beating the drum for the hapless McGuinness still,and the not so veiled threat of violence from one of your Commenters, it is a brave stance you have taken here. ~ Aughavey sensibly points out that the island we now like to call Ireland is historically, culturally and geographically divided,but fails to include that its connection to the British Crown is much longer than any of the local dynasties that went before! It only truly became a single political entity under British influence intil part of it decided to break away. ..........The hard bullet your detracters below have to bite on, Paddy, is the fact that Britain has a right to try and retain its sovereignty and the 'North' are justified it fighting to avoid being forced to break away and join the 'South'. The South, having Formally removed their Territorial claim to the 'North' from their Constitution should now stop bleating on about it! BOTH sided should take a big gulp and swallow the bitter reality pill. When they are cured, they will wake up to the fact that our little island is,and always has been,a hotbed of strife and division, inhabited by a very strange racial mixture of curious, but deliciously argumentative people. ~~~ So hold steady under fire Paddy,a chara,you are quite right. It's just that some members of IC appear to be very slow learners. Slainte!
I have never heard as much rubbish in all my life. Mr Duffy must not have looked at a history book in his young life.The Irish people have for the most part lived a very sad existence.Their lands have been seized,they have lived and died through famines and have fought and died so that people like Mr Duffy and everyone on this island can have a better life. Do we stop supporting the Irish rugby team because it does not matter who wins,or that Wales will do as good as job in the final? of course not,we are Irish after all. And as a person that wants to see a united Ireland for all,it is my duty to lam-blast this waffle when ever and from who ever it comes from.
Paddy Duffy! Are you some sort of eejit? Some have lived along the border longer than you. You must have always been well enough off to take such an aloof view of things. A sort of a Horse Catholic I'd be thinking. The problem with boys like you, Mr. Duffy, is you get me so upset since I can never understand how you can take such a position. I might do jail time if I ever met you. God you madden me. "Plantagenet : The truth appears so naked on my side That any purblind eye may find it out. Somerset : And on my side it is so well apparell'd, That it will glimmer through a blind man's eye". Jaysus, you have me now turning to Shakespeare to figure you out.
Mr. Duffy's pro Brit opinion does not belong in our Irish Central. His ignorance is the best example of English propaganda. Slan abhaile, Mr. Duffy (and the editor that allowed this article to print!) Ireland was one nation and will be one nation again. Brits out now!
I believe the latest poll shows that the majority of Catholics in Northern Ireland would prefer that the North stayed united with the UK.
Aughavey, the battle between Cuchulain and Queen Maeve was an inter-dynastic war between two Irish factions and not a battle between Ulster and the rest of Ireland. During the reign of Brian Boru(941-1014), the High King of Ireland, the Kingdom of Leinter was warring constantly with the King Brian's native Munster and this does not suggest that Leinster was battling the rest of Ireland. Ulster has been one of the strongest repositories of Irish Gaelic culture and resisted valiantly the invasions by Anglo-Normans, Tudor Kings and Queens. Gaelic Ulster was the last Irish bastion to fall despite the great military resistance led by Hugh O'Neill(Earl of Tyrone) and Hugh O'Donnell(Earl of Tyrconnell)against English rule under Queen Elizabeth 1st. You state that Ireland was given to an English King to spread Catholicism. This is a very simplistic and distorted view of a disputed event which involved a bull called "Laudbiliter" in 1154 which supposedly granted the English King Henry 11 complete sovereignty over Ireland if he managed to get the existing Church structures overhauled. There is a substantial body of opinion among the experts of this period that the letter was a forgery or amended by Henry to make it look like he was given certain powers by the pope that in reality he was not given.




Log into IrishCentral with your Facebook account


or sign-in directly

E-Mail:
Password:
 Remember me Forgot my password
Not a member? Register Now!
print this article Print
email this articleE-mail