Has the time come for Celtic Independence? - Scottish win could spell seismic shift
By: Paddy Duffy | Published Tuesday, December 18, 2012, 9:32 PM | Updated Tuesday, December 18, 2012, 9:32 PM
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| Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond |
Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond is currently embroiled in a power struggle with British PM over a referendum for Scottish independence, but if he wins the dominoes won’t just stop at Hadrian’s Wall.
If Scotland and England do take divergent paths, that leaves Wales and Northern Ireland essentially in a “back me or sack me” situation, stuck between siding with their Celtic brethren (and to a lesser degree Europe) and the Westminster government who supply the block grant for their respective assemblies. And if they do, then it may be the best chance proponents of a United Ireland will have in decades.
If the UK becomes more of a loose confederation as would be likely the case under Scottish independence, then Northern Ireland’s closeness to the Republic of Ireland will come under closer scrutiny, in terms of trade, services, culture and a host of other things that will suddenly become relevant if such a debate ever arises. Of course, that means it will energise both sides of the argument.
Already you can see the Unionist side in particular sharpening their swords. This Tuesday on Spotlight, a Northern Ireland current affairs discussion programme, DUP Health Minister Edwin Poots claimed First Minister Salmond was like a dog agitating to get off the leash and went on to essentially claim that the fundamentals of the Union were strong. But United Ireland advocates are getting more nuanced in their approach, with younger members of Sinn Féin like Pearse Doherty providing a counter-balance to old irredentism by considering a range of ideas about how the arrangement could work, even how to accommodate hardline Unionists in an Irish parliamentary setting. More interesting still, they’re focusing on a referendum of their own for around the 2016 mark.
As I’ve said before, the case of a United Ireland is something I’m intensely ambivalent about and would be of the opinion that an independent Scotland would more likely precipitate a kind of Celtic alliance, each country becoming more independent of London but still under the kind of loose confederation I mentioned earlier. But, the political sands are changing and changing quickly, and for those who dream of a United Ireland they should make their case extremely well for the debate ahead. Their day may finally be coming if they do.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.TayandCake | Apr 22, 2012, 04:19 PM EDT
esatdigiwank Ireland secular? its a slow process but its happening, you must have hope
esatdigiwank | Apr 22, 2012, 02:21 PM EDT
Scots independence will count for nothing once they're under the foot of the EU Monolith State! IMHO, Ireland would have to be secular first before it could contemplate being united. Who thinks similar here?
DanOLoingsigh | Mar 01, 2012, 02:34 PM EST
You don't go into bars??? Thank G for that...have a great holiday, anyway, we all deserve it........
seanomelb | Feb 29, 2012, 05:15 PM EST
You will not find me in a bar Dano, stick to your 1/2 glasses of milk and genuflect to your English overlords.
DanOLoingsigh | Feb 29, 2012, 02:13 PM EST
You certainly won't find me...but if I hear someone propping up certain bars in certain Mayo hostelries, speaking with a strangled Dublin/Oz accent, whining on about how wonderful the IRA campaign was, or how he spent a couple of years twiddling his thumbs at Finner Camp, I'll have you spotted!!!
seanomelb | Feb 28, 2012, 05:05 PM EST
come to think of it Dano I'm due a holiday,but theres one thing for sure I will not find you in Ireland.
DanOLoingsigh | Feb 28, 2012, 02:07 PM EST
Seano - so when are you booking a ticket back to 'your' country? Do let us know?
AlunPalmer | Feb 28, 2012, 12:32 AM EST
And as someone said Churchill pointed out, the English are celts (Britons) under the surface, at least by blood, except that celtic culture was pretty much wiped out in England. Of course in the South they are also to some extent Saxons, and in the North, Angles and Danes, the North of England having once been part of Denmark under King Knut/Canute. So England has a huge North/South cultural divide, but perhaps better known than that is the class divide, caused by the Norman French intermarrying with and/or replacing mostly only the upper classes. And you think Ireland is screwed up?
AlunPalmer | Feb 28, 2012, 12:23 AM EST
A lot of issues here. Only the highlanders were descended from Irish Gaelic celts, but also from Vikings and Picts. And the Picts may have been Brythonic celts (Britons) or a separate race, depending on who you believe and how much that really means anyway. The borderers are not Gaels, except to the extent that some of them are of highland descent, but that doesn't mean they aren't of celtic descent, although they are also descended from Angles and Danes, so in fact pretty much the same ethnic mix as the North of England. It's a wonder that the Scots consider themselves one nation, but the same could be said for the North and South of England. Political boundaries anywhere in the world have more to do with conquest than ethnicity, and that causes half the world's problems.
Briandee | Feb 28, 2012, 12:18 AM EST
Scotland, Eire, The North, and other lesser kingdoms united. Pull out of german AngleLand and leave them to the Jamaicans. When the war is over repopulate the Islands with a new breed of natives. NO IMMIGRANTS AT ALL!!!!!
seanomelb | Feb 27, 2012, 06:17 PM EST
Ireland for the Irish,Scotland for the scots,Dan for defeatism and grovelling to his Brit masters.
patriot | Feb 27, 2012, 02:00 PM EST
Scotland will be independent or devolved. One of the two. Ireland will be united by the referendum in 2016, or there will be war. One of the two.
DanOLoingsigh | Feb 26, 2012, 07:16 PM EST
Anyone who thinks that Scotland, with a population less than Finland, will carry much clout in either the EU or the world, is delusional...they need to sort their sectarian differences before they enter the world stage...oh, and there's the millstone of their banking debacle to address...
AMWilson | Feb 25, 2012, 10:47 PM EST
Seamus, great post. Paddy, thanks for the Pearse Doherty shout-out. IMO, the new-generation SF has shown itself to have less historical baggage, and more to offer than bullets and bombs.
seanomelb | Feb 25, 2012, 04:48 PM EST
A Scottish mation would no doubt be capable of great things.Megrahi/Dev or the DNA makeup of the Scots are irrelevant.If the majority vote in favour of freedom from the british apron strings so be it. An independent Scotland would not be insignificant.In fact it would be a player on the world stage having its own vote in Brussels and at the UN.
RedBranch | Feb 25, 2012, 04:21 PM EST
Let's have a look one story to indicate what an independent Scotland may do... In an effort to make an 'impression' on the world stage Salmond OKed the release of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi aka the Lockerbie bomber on compassionate grounds (he had already had two unsuccessful appeals to his conviction and was supposed to die in a mater of weeks) Now two and a half years later he's still going. Like DeV's condolences on the death of Hitler this may play well to elements at home, but selfish grandstanding with justice, especially in such sensative cases, that's a sign of immaturity.
bunkerhill | Feb 25, 2012, 01:55 PM EST
The Celts and Britains of the "British" isles have had their history stolen by the "related royals" of questionable origin controlling the Nordic countries, the Netherlands, Belgium etc. All we ever hear about are AS's and I recall a Scotsman asking "Where is my heritage." Although I was never a fan of Churchill. he did write in his "Birth of Britain" that there was never an AS invasion of England and he explains what happened. DNA has proven him right and anyone who knows Latin knows that English is approx 65% Latin. Imagine the Romans being in Albion for five hundred years and leaving no input or descendents. look at the buildings and coins, totally Roman. But then there was that big split Henry VIII (the head chopper) had with Rome. All the Celts or Britains have had their history stolen by the AS's. Where in "Saxonia" do you find the monuments, books, (recent treasure trove of weapons) that are found in the lands of the Britains or Celts. My American history books told me the Nordics were the first to sail in the North Atlantic in the 7th century, although monuments in the "Celtic British" isles date back before the pyramids. Does anyone have DNA on the AS royals.
like2tweet | Feb 25, 2012, 12:34 PM EST
Excellent article -- go Scots and Braveheart !
pndirishandprou | Feb 25, 2012, 11:24 AM EST
Scotland would be foolish to split from the UK. Why go from being part of a large European country (although most Brits don't consider themselves European) to becoming a small and insignificant country? On the other hand, it would not really matter much as the true center of gravity on the old continent has been Brussels for a long time. An independent Scotland may well be a plus for the European Union.
SeamusMor | Feb 25, 2012, 11:07 AM EST
The Scottish Kings had Irish ancestors. The Irish Kingdom of Dal Riada extended from Ulster to Argyle. Brian Boru's daughter married Scottish King Malcolm II; MacBeth was their grandson. Politics is best defined as the struggle for wealth. Scotland, through her off shore oil fields' contribution to the U.K. economy is a net looser as less is spent on them than she contributes. That is not the case in Northern Ireland where the U.K. spends far more on services than it takes in from taxes. Celtic solidarity will be trumped by enlightened economic interest. The Republic of Ireland is a failed state, broken by bankers and bond holders, ruled by the troika, and limited by austerity measures. It is hardly an attractive alternative to the status quo in Ulster.
colkelley | Feb 25, 2012, 10:19 AM EST
If they are more Nordic it means they are a cradle-to-grave welfare state. No thanks. Incidentally, Fergananim, the Scots are descended also from Irish raiders who settled there and conquered the Picts in the 700s AD.
Fergananim | Feb 25, 2012, 10:05 AM EST
Celtic independence? As far as I know, France, Germany, and Belgium are independent. Scotland is not an Celtic state as none of its ancient peoples ever described themselves as Celts. A better word would surely be Pict, British, Norse, Old English or Norman, all of whom were ancestral to today's Scottish people.