Why Irish Catholics are no different from Muslims
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 at 08:09 AM
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Last Monday, George Marlin published an article in The New York Post entitled “Catholics' lessons for U.S. Muslims.”
Marlin is an interesting thinker who writes often about overlooked aspects of Irish American and Catholic American history.
“In earlier times,” Marlin wrote on Monday, “tens of millions who came through Ellis Island quickly embraced their new nation and what it stood for and refuted the charge that there was a conflict between their religious or ethnic loyalty and patriotism."
I have interviewed George Marlin in the past and found him to be genial and well-informed. So it is with respect that I disagree with his very charitable look back at the how the Irish and other Catholic immigrants assimilated.
In fact, it could be argued that Catholic efforts to assimilate into the American mainstream were more similar than different from current Muslim efforts.
I’d go so far as to say that the Irish took part in more so-called “un-American activities” than today’s immigrants. Imagine, for example, if 20,000 Middle Eastern immigrants congregated at Madison Square Garden to rally for the cause of, say, Palestinian independence.
Well, that’s just what many New York Irish Catholics did in 1916 after the Easter Rising in Dublin, which aimed to achieve Irish independence.
By 1917, America entered into World War I alongside the Brits, much to the chagrin of Irish nationalists in America such as John Devoy. Indeed, some factions in the Irish community were more than willing to undermine America’s allies (the Brits) and ponder alliances with America’s enemies (the Germans) in the name of a free Ireland.
This may have been a small slice of Irish America. But it is far too simplistic to suggest that Irish Americans in particular and immigrant Catholics in general came to the U.S. and forgot about their homelands. Not for nothing did President Woodrow Wilson lament “hyphenated Americans.” His comments may have been tinged with xenophobia, but Wilson was right on one thing: many ethnic Americans did have dual allegiances.
Even on the eve of World War II, Irish Catholic members of extremist groups such as the Christian Mobilizers found common ground with the Bund and other groups linked to Hitler’s Germany.
Then again, should we be so surprised? Seventy years before Devoy and so many Irish in America proved they were willing to negotiate with America’s enemies, Galway native John Patrick Riley and about 200 other Irish and Catholic immigrants fought against America itself in the Mexican-American war.
Back then they were executed as traitors loyal to Rome. Today, The Chieftains sing songs about the St. Patricio Brigade.
None of this changes the fact that a majority of Irish Catholics were willing to become patriotic Americans. Just as some immigrants were launching a crusade for Irish independence from U.S. soil, many others went off to fight alongside the Brits for their new nation.
As George Marlin notes: “During World War I, more than 1.1 million immigrant Catholics … joined the US Armed Forces. More than 20 percent of the troops who served in the war were Church members, and many served with distinction. Col. ‘Wild Bill’ Donovan, who led the famed ‘Fighting Irish’ 69th Regiment from New York, was awarded the Medal of Honor.”
And yet, the very existence of a “Fighting Irish” regiment proves that ethnic allegiances were not set aside so easily. Imagine if today’s military allowed a “Fighting Dominican” or “Fighting Pakistani” brigade? And don’t give me this business that today’s immigrants don’t fight in the military. Check the names of those wounded and slain in Iraq and Afghanistan.
In the end, I would argue that while the Irish and other Catholics did embrace America, they also changed America, for the better. It might have been smart for Famine immigrants to convert in the face of 19th Century anti-Catholicism. But the Irish held onto their beliefs and eventually convinced Americans to accept Catholicism and other minority religions.
Immigrant union leaders, meanwhile, changed the way Americans thought about working conditions and – yes – nationalists figured out a way to harness Irish American power to bring peace to the homeland.
The Irish were the first large-scale immigrant group to do this. Despite what some say, I suspect they will not be the last.
42 comments
lawyer4 | Sep 01, 2010, 06:07 PM EDT
This article makes several excellent points.
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IrishTierney | Sep 01, 2010, 05:58 PM EDT
Irish Catholics are very different than Muslims Tommy boy, and you have failed to convince me otherwise. Rebelforce and MrSinatra have both hit the nail right on the head with their comments. All you've succeeded in doing Tommy, is making the Deignan's look foolish. Redeem yourself!
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Rebelforce | Sep 01, 2010, 04:29 PM EDT
Tommy, where on earth did you get the idiotic notion that Irish-American support for Irish freedom in Ireland suggests that they weren't "patriotic Americans"? Utter rubbish. I would suggest to you that those Americans of Irish descent who opposed British tyranny in Ireland were infact among the most patriotic Americans this country has ever produced.
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MrSinatra | Sep 01, 2010, 04:26 PM EDT
in the old days, when people came to America, they wanted to become American, which didn't mean renouncing your past but did mean embracing a new culture. these days, a lot of people who come to America want America to become like them, and thats the problem.
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shidoobe | Sep 01, 2010, 04:03 PM EDT
irish Catholics never hijacked 4 jetliners and killed nearly 3000 people in one day. NOT THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD, they are not, I have freinds that are of that faith.
Myself I am a Baptist, NOT IRISH CATHOLIC but the ONLY way through heaven is what Jesus Christ said ""I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Yet the Muslim Faith preaches this...
Surah 9:5 verse of the Quran, which is claimed to call upon "all" Muslims to kill "all" non-Muslims or the so-called "Infidels".
Quran say, "fight and slay the pagans (or infidels or unbelievers) wherever you find them?" (9:5).
So you tell me if Irish Catholics are like Muslims.
And BTW I hope the mosque doe snot get built near Ground Zero, how insensitive.
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RiverAveGuy | Sep 01, 2010, 03:42 PM EDT
Nice try Tom, but no one believes that crap.
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irishimport | Sep 01, 2010, 03:23 PM EDT
The reason John Reilly and others fought for Mexico
during the Mexican-American war was because the were
under the rule of British officers and were subjected to all kinds of religous bigotry the main reason they left Ireland in the first place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7zZkGAvGT0
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JamesMurphy | Sep 01, 2010, 01:50 PM EDT
Well out, Tom. Along similar lines, it's important to note that previous generations, like the present one being concerned about a Muslim-dominated world, became paranoid about Catholics imposing their way of life on others and, during the 1950s no thanks to the lunatic Joe McCarthy, of Communism festering unchecked. What next after Islam fails to take over the world? The Zaroastrians are going to be on the march? Please, wake up and smell that coffee.
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killowen | Sep 01, 2010, 01:12 PM EDT
Such crap is hard to take. Sheer fodder for nada
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Binasdad | Sep 01, 2010, 12:58 PM EDT
How often does it have to be repeated before it sinks in? The Muslum religion didn't attack us on 9/11, Al-Queda did.
As recently as 1960, President Kennedy had to reassure America that he wouldn't be taking orders from the Vatican. It is much easier to attack another religion when we forget that our religion was once under similar attack.
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hancock | Sep 01, 2010, 12:52 PM EDT
Whe srtippers fly planes into skyscrapers I'll worry about them.
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Irishphotograph | Sep 01, 2010, 12:39 PM EDT
John Devoy was my grandfathers uncle...David Hayes find me on Facebook.
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TheYank | Sep 01, 2010, 12:30 PM EDT
wjmcgi1,
Your point on Canada misses one vital ingredient: the government and the people of the United States did not consider Canada - really, Great Britain - "friendly." They'd fought a war in 1812 - something many Americans living in the 1860s had not forgotten - and during the Civil War the British toyed with the idea of offering formal recognition to the Confederates. And, Canada offered refuge to Confederate spies and saboteurs, including John Suratt, who conspired to kidnap Lincoln and possibly was in on the later plot to kill him.
For that reason the US government had given signals to the prominent Irish leaders in and out of the Union Army that when the Civil War was over they would not interfere in their plans to invade Canada. However, the Johnson Administration got cold feet and did intervene and sailed American war ships up the Niagara River to stop the Irish from sending any more troops into Canada after they'd actually won their initial engagements.
Your point on Canada misses one vital ingredient: the government and the people of the United States did not consider Canada - really, Great Britain - "friendly." They'd fought a war in 1812 - something many Americans living in the 1860s had not forgotten - and during the Civil War the British toyed with the idea of offering formal recognition to the Confederates. And, Canada offered refuge to Confederate spies and saboteurs, including John Suratt, who conspired to kidnap Lincoln and possibly was in on the later plot to kill him.
For that reason the US government had given signals to the prominent Irish leaders in and out of the Union Army that when the Civil War was over they would not interfere in their plans to invade Canada. However, the Johnson Administration got cold feet and did intervene and sailed American war ships up the Niagara River to stop the Irish from sending any more troops into Canada after they'd actually won their initial engagements.
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HorsesInMdstrm | Sep 01, 2010, 11:14 AM EDT
To MaryM232: I'm not vermin and you have no right to call me that. I'm a military veteran. And while decidedly non-religious myself, I support the right of all religions to have places of worship.
And just to remind you. It's not solely a mosque and it is two blocks from ground zero, at roughly the same distance as a strip club, I've read (but never attended).
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