Is there an Irish New York Accent?
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 at 11:46 AM
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Peter Quinn is a Bronx-born and raised Irish American. He was a speechwriter for New York governors Mario Cuomo and Hugh Carey and, in recent years, has become a well-known essayist and novelist. He even has a new novel out, entitled The Man Who Never Returned, about the legendarily vanished New York judge Joseph Crater.
But that’s not all Quinn has. According to one observer, Quinn also has -- if you will -- the “quin”-tessential New York Irish accent.
But this observation raises a larger question? Is there really an Irish variation on the world famous New York accent?
Another Irish American with roots in the Bronx named Heather Quinlan has embarked on a journey to answer just that question.
“I’ve always been interested in language and accents,” said Quinlan, in a recent interview with “Sidewalks.”
Quinlan was laid off from her job earlier this year. She decided, then, to devote herself full-time to what had been a part-time obsession -- making a documentary film about the “Noo Yawk” accent. The title is If These Knishes Could Talk: A New York Accent Film.
“The thing that fueled the idea,” Quinlan said, “was that my father died in 1996.”
She recalls her youth, listening to stories told by her father and grandparents in thick New York accents.
“It’s one of the things I miss about them,” Quinlan added. “It’s something good to celebrate.”
By now, of course, the New York accent has become something cartoonish. In fact, this was the case six or so decades ago, when that famous cartoon rabbit Bugs Bunny was causing mayhem on the streets of New York with an accent thicker than molasses, singing about Rosie O’Grady, that “regular old fashioned goil.”
In recent decades, however, something strange has happened. The New York accent -- or a wildly exaggerated version of it -- has become more and more popular in films. At the same time it has become less prominent on certain New York streets.
As Quinlan noted, Manhattan tends to be filled with migrants from across America as well as newly-arrived immigrants. This generally means that it is possible to spend a whole day in Manhattan without actually hearing the beloved New York accent. Unless, that is, you wander into an OTB or a Blarney Stone.
But there are also misguided folks who believe the New York accent is not only dead, but died roughly around the same time The Honeymooners left the airwaves.
This is generally the opinion of folks who fancy themselves New York experts, who, nevertheless, couldn’t find their way to ethnic enclaves in Brooklyn or the Bronx or Staten Island with a Metro Card, a map or a GPS app.
Indeed, Quinlan said the title of her New York accent film was inspired by a snack her dad bought for her during a youthful trip to the Staten Island zoo.
“A New York/Jewish food introduced to me by my Irish father in an Italian borough. That’s about as New York as it gets,” Quinlan notes on her website.
But how is the Irish New York accent different from, say, the Italian New York accent?
“The Irish New York accent is more like Jimmy Cagney. It’s very rat-tat-tat. Very Tommy Gun,” Quinlan says, noting that Quinn is a current expert practitioner.
The New York Irish accent is more subtle than, say, the Italian New York inflection which tends to be more broad -- what people tend to talk about, Quinlan notes, when they vaguely refer to a “typical Brooklyn accent.”
Quinlan’s own ancestors came to the Bronx from Tipperary and she spent her youth in several New York boroughs as well as New Jersey.
She did eventually make contact with cousins in Tipperary and made a trip to Ireland, where she saw the Quinlan homestead, which is still standing -- “barely.”
While shooting her film, Quinlan also came across the work of the late Irish language scholar Daniel Cassidy, who showed how the Irish language deeply influenced New York slang.
“It was mind-blowing,” Quinlan said.
Quinlan is continuing to shoot footage for If These Knishes Could Talk. She has already talked to the likes of Pete Hamill, and is aiming to have the film completed next year, in time to put it on the film festival circuit.
While raising money for this project, she has also seen an outpouring of generosity from many people.
“I think that speaks to New Yorkers love of the accent,” Quinlan says. “It’s as much a part of Americana as apple pie.”
(Contact Sidewalks at tomdeignan@earthlink.net or facebook.com/tomdeignan)
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carrickcourt | Aug 29, 2010, 08:49 AM EDT
Speaking of Irish New York accents when I worked for the Federal government I had dealing with a fellow who worked for a Delaware State Agency. I forget the fellow's name now but he had good Irish surname. When I first had dealing with this lad I asked him if he might be from New York City because of his accent, which was very New York City to my ears. I was surprised when he told me that he was born and raised in New Orleans in area called the Irish Channel. I learned late that Irish famine era settlers to New Orleans learned English after they settled in New Orleans. Many teachers in this Irish Channel area of New Orleans were nuns from a religious order that came to New Orleans from New York City, thus a New York City style accent within the Irish community of the Irish Channel of New Orleans.
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norinalundy | Aug 28, 2010, 10:15 PM EDT
So far, the NY accent is still alive. I think it is a combo of Irish, Italian and Jewish. Anywhere you go where there is this ethnic mix, you will find this accent, or something quite like it - I heard it in South San Francisco. Typically the "a" sound is attributed to the Irish, and it seems to be exaggerated in a place like Boston more so than in NY. Jimmy Cagney chopped speech is more indicative of the Irish accent which was prevalent in NY in the 30s and 40s. However, with the ethnic mix changing rapidly in NY, this accent is going to change since the majority will probably be Latino, Chinese and Russian immigrants. I wonder what that will sound like? Yikes!
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yorkville | Aug 27, 2010, 07:18 PM EDT
I bartended in yorkville and the new york accent was alive and well! im Irish, and i love New Yorkers and the New york accent! best people in the world!!And the "Cawfee" aint bad eetha!!
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eileenkny | Aug 27, 2010, 04:51 PM EDT
While reading this, all of a sudden I heard my father-in-law's voice. He spoke with that rat-tat-tat and laughed the same way. I'd love to see this film when it comes out. Thanks for the memory.
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Searlit | Aug 27, 2010, 01:43 PM EDT
Yes, I think there's a little bit of the Irish lilt to the New York Irish accent. That bit of up and down pitch to their voices. Anyway, they maybe losing their accents because they spend so much time in Connecticut, where it there is, apparently, no accent.
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Sheilah | Aug 27, 2010, 10:02 AM EDT
Absolutely - go to any NYC Catholic church or school reunion and you'll find your research base.
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manhattan | Aug 26, 2010, 02:55 PM EDT
Thank you Tom, for bringing great stories that pertain to New York City.As I grew up there it is of great interest to me .
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manhattan | Aug 26, 2010, 02:51 PM EDT
I grew up on the west side in manhattan. We Irish americans most definitely have our own distinctive accent. But you will have to go to the suburbs to find us. We were the children of the immigrants who got a bit of our accents from them. Italian american and jewish american who grew up in New York City have there own accents. My kids don't sound like me and there aren't many of us left. If I am anywhere outside of New York all I have to say is cooffee or boddles(bottles{ then I hear "are you from New York? There are so many words we say that I hope this project comes true because we are dying out.
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TheYank | Aug 26, 2010, 11:34 AM EDT
I definitely think there was a New York Irish accent, but I thought it was either gone or on the way out. If you watch old movies - Jimmy Cagney's a good suggestion - you'll often hear it. Sometimes a short film clip will be even better because I think Hollywood changes everything to suit their own purposes.
I can hear it in my head still from old people I knew. One word that definitely stands out in my memory is potatoes or b'ataetas (maybe there's a better way to render that).
I can hear it in my head still from old people I knew. One word that definitely stands out in my memory is potatoes or b'ataetas (maybe there's a better way to render that).
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In Irish there are two ways to answer An bhfaca tú sin? (Did you see that?). One is Chonaic mé (I saw) or Ní fhaca mé (I didn't see.)
For those who say that the Irish can never give you a simple yes-or-no answer, the reason is lost in antiquity. You can say Is ea which is like saying 'Tis but you wouldn't have to say 'Tis if there were a word for Yes. Is é sin é.
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