Sidewalks by Tom Deignan


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Sidewalks by Tom Deignan

‘Irishmen Who Are Drunks’ - a reaction to FDNY's discriminatory remarks

Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 at 08:34 AM

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As the 10th anniversary of 9/11 looms, you see many stories these days about firefighters and their families, and how they are coping with the loss of loved ones and the passage of time since that terrible day.

But that’s not all you will hear about the FDNY these days.  For the past several weeks, Brooklyn Federal Court has been the setting for a federal discrimination trial against the New York City fire department.

The feds are looking into allegations that the FDNY discriminates against minority firefighters. So it is interesting that in this setting, one of the most blatantly anti-Irish statements I’ve ever heard was not only muttered, but entered into the public record.

Worse, there was not a peep from anyone that it was at least ironic that Irish stereotypes were being peddled at a -- wait for it! -- anti-racism trial.

There was no outrage from an Irish American politician or the national AOH, or even the Emerald Society of the FDNY.  Nothing.

These comments were made as the trial against the FDNY got underway earlier this month.  The topic of the day was the allegation that white FDNY candidates with criminal backgrounds seemed to be getting much more lenient treatment than minority candidates with similarly troubled pasts.

Former assistant commissioner for FDNY personnel Patricia Kavaler testified that FDNY big wigs might call members of a review board to vouch for white candidates with checkered pasts.

“You’re dealing with a lot of Irishmen who are drunks and they get into bar fights and they get arrested and they get arrested again.  They fight, they sock their girlfriends…they get arrested because they fought with the police when they got arrested.  This is boys being boys.  That type of thing.”

How does one even begin to deal with this?

First off, we have to let Kavaler off the hook.  It appears she was simply relaying what she had heard someone else say.  She apparently did not say these words herself.

However, since these drunken Irish comments were reported in exactly one news outlet -- the New York Daily News -- there were no follow-up questions seeking clarification.

So, let’s say Kavaler heard some other FDNY bigwig say this.  Isn’t this nearly as newsworthy as anti-black comments?

Look, I am not naïve.  Are there Irish members of the FDNY who like to drink?  I know several.  Do the Irish in general like to drink?

Often, Irish folks themselves put this message out.  When basketball great and Queens native Chris

Mullin was recently inducted into the NBA Hall of Fame, several stories linked his alcoholism with his Irish American upbringing.

Watch any episode of Denis Leary’s FDNY show Rescue Me and it will probably confirm every existing stereotypes.

Okay.  Fine.  So, let’s pretend the FDNY bigwig who claimed, “You’re dealing with a lot of Irishmen who are drunks,” is named Kevin O’Donovan, or something similarly Hibernian.  This is still inexcusable.

In a forum dedicated to correcting the wrongs of racial or ethnic bias, there is no way comments about drunken, brawling Irishmen should be allowed to pass unremarked upon.

Unless, that is, we are then going to discuss Mafia Italians and dumb Pollocks and cheap Jews or any other lame racial/ethnic/religious stereotype.

That all being said, it could be that the FDNY has a serious problem.  It simply does not look good that, in a city like New York, only 3% of firefighters are African American.

It is true that it is very much a job passed from father to son, which gives New York’s white ethnic groups a leg up, and it’s hard to pass a law against that.
It’s also true that other major cities have found ways to diversify their firefighting ranks. And that presumably goes for gender also.

We’ll let New York Post gossip columnist Cindy Adams have the last word. She recently lamented that the number of female firefighters has stayed at around 30 for the past several decades because the FDNY is “an old Irish club of sexists.”

It begs the question -- how can Irish firefighters find time to be sexist when they are drinking and brawling and getting arrested all the time?

(Contact “Sidewalks” at tomdeignan@earthlink.net or facebook.com/tomdeignan)




15 comments

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Not only are there many countries with higher rates of alcoholism than Ireland. Wiki has Ireland ranked 16th in percapita alcohol consumption. Ireland is number two in beer consumption per capita.
What sirpeter says is stupid nonsense. The majority of Irish pubs are dumps. I don't know how many Irish pubs I've been in (got out after one drink) where there is a TV blaring some English soccer match, and the bar is full of "fans' shouting and cursing for some English ball club. The weirdest thing I've ever seen is when the Irish "fans" attempt to mimic the English accent, in some kind of lunatic solidarity with Manchester, Liverpool etc. Now that's psycho territory. For sirpeter to claim these pubs are places of good conversation is total garbage, though then again that could be said of any of his posts.
MY Father & Brother were Both Firemen and were not Drunks they were good living Christian Family Men. they were never arrested. My Father Retired Due to Cancer after 28 years being on the Boston Fire Dept My Brother Mike is still on the B.F.D I Hate it when they Type Cast All Firemen because of a Few. They also call us Police officers Drunks. But when the Chips are Down who do they call when they are in need of Help ? Irish Firemen & Irish Cops
@Mairin67.It's more then a theory,it's a fact.But it goes deeper.Catholic Ireland was drained of it's wealth for hundreds of years by the English.We had nothing but eachother.We gathered,we talked,we sang,we told stories,we made eachother laugh and we argued and fought.It was very public.But all those things I said have one thing in common.The Irish are great communicators because of pub life.If you stay at home or stay in your comfort zone.You lose the art of conversation.
I'm not making excuses for some of the Irish that drink and act up but, I have read that research shows the Irish behind the Germans, Russians and Poles in drinking per capita. My theory has always been, the Irish stick out because they have more fun doing it!
who better to target than the Irish. They who slot neatly within the above and lower others. That middle from which easily forgotten history of their bravery has them running into flaming buildings as others are running for their lives. The Fighting Irish whose contributions in lands far from their ancestral homeland are not widely understood. They who fought with Merry O, one notable "took-the-shilling" Colley family member, better known as Wellington, Commodore Brown of Argentine Navy, Higgins of Chile, Leary, Bolivar's Aide de camp. Layafette's troops were largely ancestors of those "Wild Geese" who fled America's Mother's tyranny. It is said that 50% of George Washington's Army were Irish-born. Audie Murphy of WWII fame and on it goes of a people who appears to be highly regarded for their role as protectors i.e Cops and heads who are in great demand. Their first names and surnames being usurped by others (they know) who sought to have names that sounded less gutteral or too long to fit. Russia's spy who used Collins in the 1950s later on in time the use of Irish passports by CIA and our ME friend for a killing purpose. Enough said.
I'm sick of reading that the Irish are drunks.Do some research and you'll find plenty of Countries have a higher percentage of alcoholics.
I love it..........The truth hurts when it's close to home. I've witnessed plenty of Hibernian hi-jinx when it comes to alcohol intake amongst the Irish. Compared to the rest of their Western European mates the Irish are on top of the pile when it comes to drunken brawls. However, the Latvians, Lithuanians and Poles are catching up thanks to their growing numbers on the Emerald isle.
another artical passed over by the liberal irish central. THANK YOU!!!
The world is full of drunks, and the vast majority of them have no Irish blood.
Thank God, for the Irish taking the dangerous, underpaid jobs that nobody wanted. Now, that most private sector jobs pay, so little, with little or no benefits, everyone wants to apply for a job for the union benefits. I know some volunteer fireman. I'll tell you these men are of a heroic breed! God Bless all the fireman, paid or volunteers. They deserve much more pay than they get.
If being a drunk is genetic, then it's certain proof that's the whole world's Irish. My family-in-law's worst drunk is German and serving time now because he can't stop driving and drinking. My commanding officer in the US Navy, who was a certified WASP, was prone to making quips while drunk at the officers club bar about so and so talking like an Irishman from the ghetto. Later we docked in Guam for fuel on the way back from Vietnam. He really got fueled up at the Guam officer's club. When the ship left Guam we ran into a Russian trawler that was spying on the B-52s headed for Hanoi. It was a big deal we had to report it to Henry Kissenger and God, when I called my c/o he showed up on the ship's bridge completely wasted and babbling inconherently in front of all the enlisted sailors. It was a big problem. I quieted down sent him back to his room and forged his signature on the message to Henry Kissenger and God about the Russian trawler spying on the B-52s.
An "Irish Queer" is a lad who prefers women to whiskey! Lighten up Tom.
The reason is that there are a disproportionate number of Irish drunks. Deal with it.
The Irish took the job when it was bottom of the Barrell, then over the years with union negotiations etc, it became respectable as such, then everybody started shouting Favoritism". However the danger is always there lurking in the background. It's more than a job, it's a way of life.
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