35 Comments

• Monsoonman | Aug 02, 2010, 09:28 AM EDT

  Yawn! George Bush, Dick Cheney, George Bush Dick Cheney...warmongers, the root of all evil. Don't you remember we were attacked and killed on 911? There was a unanimous congressional and senate vote to OK the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq...So git yer facks straight. This revisionist history is so ridiculous, i guess you think if you repeat it early and often enough you can change historical events.

• LiamDavid | Aug 02, 2010, 04:09 AM EDT

  America is fighting against the governments of Russia, China, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, through a veil of the burka! Those are some very heavy opponents to be sure! As it has been stated here in a number of different ways, America finds itself mired in a conflict that there is no realistic way to win, and that it had no intentions of being in, in the first place! A cagy enemy like the Taliban, who receive all of the latest weapons and ammunition from the governments listed above, (in a screwy twist of history, since the Afghans received sidewinder rocket launchers from America, in order to defeat the Russians years ago!). Today, the Obama administration is saddled with a very unfortunate and painful task that of which is to disengage the American forces from Afghanistan within the next two years. Wherein, his dissenters will wallow in their murky delight of seeing their hated enemy taking a tremendous hit in popularity, so much so that most of them will have forgotten their bitching about his “birth certificate”. Vietnam was a horrible mistake for America, just as the two wars that George Bush and Dick Chaney instigated. America can not afford to be the policeman for the world, for many reasons, but foremost on the list of whys, is that America is faced with far more insidious enemies right within its own borders. You can’t feed, or educate, or house other peoples, when you have Americans with these needs, far too many of them. You can’t promote human rights for other peoples, when in doing so; you impede the rights of your citizens. There is much for America to do, especially for itself! Slan

• LiamDavid | Aug 01, 2010, 08:45 PM EDT

  MSM, this story is spent, lad, and you failed miserably in rational, reasonable debate. It's down to you and me and you are not good company to be in.

• Monsoonman | Aug 01, 2010, 03:08 PM EDT

  LOL Mr. swineford, that all you got? Can't battle me with the facks so you call me names...Doesn't speak well of your stand...go run along and play well with the other children...LOL!!!!!

• Monsoonman | Aug 01, 2010, 02:31 PM EDT

  Monsoonman, you are one sick dude. There is no reasoning with you. You're beyond that, doing your revolutions around Pluto. What a horrible place it must be to live inside your head. I wouldn't even stop by for a cup of joe. Have a nice day.

• Monsoonman | Aug 01, 2010, 12:26 PM EDT

  "We need to disengage so that we can focus on saving our own country." So mr. swineford, does that mean we should secure our borders? Does that mean we should preserve our own language and culture? Or just let the religion of "peace" slowly transform our inner cities and the prison systems into mini caliphates ruled by sharia law, the dictates of the reverend Louis Farakhan and the fruit of islam? Aid and comfort them, give them political power to transform our society? We have "honor killings" here. Chicago and detroit are ground zero and our present occupant of the whitehouse is spawned from chicago....and yes the ACLU is working at a feverish pace to erase Christianity from our society, although the catholic churches scandals are helping mightily.

• Monsoonman | Aug 01, 2010, 08:41 AM EDT

  A fair point RobbCobb and one that I am deeply conflicted over. What is happening to Afghan women and girls under Taliban control is barbaric, evil and cruel but it happening in large swaths of the Muslim world where females are, despite arguments to the contrary, considered the property of males. Yet, in the harsh reality of our own national security needs and limited resources, the well being of Muslim women cannot drive our foreign policy. Human rights are also brutally repressed in China, Burma, North Korea, several African countries and even still, next door in Cuba. Our out-of-control domestic spending requirements coupled with our foreign expenditures are driving us to the very brink of financial calamity. The bitter truth today is that we cannot afford it, nor can we afford the unending sacrifice of our young men and women. We need to disengage so that we can focus on saving our own country.

• RobbCobb | Aug 01, 2010, 02:05 AM EDT

  There's no doubt that it's certainly a quagmire, and although the war effort should have been focused on taking down the terrorist that perpetrated the 9/11 attacks, instead of going after a despotic leader in an oil rich country - the troops in Afghanistan are now fighting for a different cause as well - check out the TIME magazine issue on the women of Afghanistan. These women and children need the intervention of the rest of the civilized world. If you need a reason for us to be there, I can't think of a much better one.

• Monsoonman | Jul 31, 2010, 08:59 PM EDT

  tsk tsk mr. Swineford...Talk to the hand.

• bosslady2898 | Jul 31, 2010, 03:31 PM EDT

  It couldn't have anything to do with the huge lithium deposit they "found" over there could it? Kind of like the uranium deposits in Vietnam...I'm just wondering....oh what;s wrong with me...of course not..that would be wrong...

• bosslady2898 | Jul 31, 2010, 03:22 PM EDT

  Monsoonman, your paranoid, pathetic, over-the-top drivel is beyond stupid - and you must be called out for writing such trash. The mosque you refer to is not at Ground Zero but several blocks away and has very broad support in the community. Christmas themes are not being sued out of existence and Obama is not a Muslim. You rely on lies and Bulls..t to defend an absurd proposition - that Muslims are taking over America. If you truly believe this you are sick. Perhaps you've been out too much in the rain monsoon man and are suffering from 'water on the brain.'

• irishwxman | Jul 31, 2010, 02:24 PM EDT

  Why Niall? So the Taliban can come back in and undo all of the hard work that has been done? All of the troops would have died for nothing if we get out now. Obama need to undo his outrageous rules of engagement that have clearly handcuffed our guys. his liberal tree hugging anti war philosophy is killing us. We need a new president. That is what we need to do.

• Monsoonman | Jul 31, 2010, 11:08 AM EDT

  The muslims are already winning the war on the US homeland. Our borders are porous, anyone can enter through the southern side, a ground zero mosque is planned on being built. Taxpayer funded footwashes are provided in detroit and other big cities, chritsmas themes are being sued out of existence, and we have a muslim in the whitehouse....I see the homefront battle for borders, language and culture being lost on every front.

• Monsoonman | Jul 31, 2010, 09:49 AM EDT

  I am a combat veteran of Vietnam. We were told ad nauseam back then that if we didn't stop the commies in Southeast Asia we'd be fighting them on the beaches of California. This is the old canard, as false now as it was then. It took me more than 25 years to accept the terrible truth - that more than 58,000 young Americans (our first teenage war) were sacrificed for nothing. We started out with a justified and noble purpose in Afghanistan but botched it in the worst way by taking our eye off the ball and invading Iraq - where Saddam was already safely confined in his box. Too late we returned to the real threat but with an amended and expanded mission, the success of which is in grave doubt. Niall O'Dowd's article may not have been spot on but he did raise the frightening parallels between Afghanistan and Vietnam. This war can only end as Vietnam did - with a phoney peace and a phoney victory. But let's not be stupid, radical Muslims will never, ever take over the United States. Idiot statements like that may appeal to the dullard but not to rational, reasonably intelligent people.

• TaranOconner | Jul 31, 2010, 02:35 AM EDT

  Mike7571, I hope your comment "why not pull out and run now?" was meant as sarcasm?!

• TaranOconner | Jul 31, 2010, 02:24 AM EDT

  vincem13---You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. My son-in-law has Many years experience in Iraq, Afghanistan,etc. and says we HAVE to STOP the Muslim Terrorists from taking over the USA---either over there OR over here! Stop 'em now-----THERE!! We don't like it this way, but there is NO other way that anyone else has found either. Survival of the fittest is all the Terrorists understand!

• patrick1945 | Jul 31, 2010, 12:38 AM EDT

  The answer, either remove the restrictions put on the war by the politicians and fight the war to win, or get out. You can't fight a political correct war!

• mayoman | Jul 30, 2010, 07:21 PM EDT

  Way to go Niall. Karzai and his cronies are the new Cao Ky and Crew. All were, and are, corrupt. And we certainly shouldn't be sacrificing our troops, or emptying the treasury. A blind man can see that we need to get the hell out of this pointless, pathetic mess immediately.

• Mike7571 | Jul 30, 2010, 06:25 PM EDT

  What happened the last time we ignored this place? Oh right, the Taliban took over and we ended up with 9/11. Why not pull out and run now?

• docmikey | Jul 30, 2010, 03:15 PM EDT

  Right on! We need to get out ASAP.

• Scrivner | Jul 30, 2010, 03:02 PM EDT

  As a foreign leader observed, after the US withdrew from Viet Nam and Congress calously cutoff aid to the Saigon Govt, "...true, it is dangerous to be an enemy of America, but it is much more dangerous to be America's friend." I guess that you lefties want to teach this leasson again.

• bostonblakie | Jul 30, 2010, 02:00 PM EDT

  We'll never turn that place into New Jersey. Why are we still there??

• Nicomax | Jul 30, 2010, 01:21 PM EDT

  As with Vietnam, the final call is seldom the number of dead and injured, or the economic loss, but the political damage incurred in exiting a war without being able to issue a definitive victory declaration. Tough guys like Johnson and Nixon had trouble crossing that bridge, and so will Obama.

• vincem13 | Jul 30, 2010, 01:06 PM EDT

  Dear Mr. O'Dowd: Your comparison was interesting, but fatally flawed. If the Taliban and the Al-Qaeda are successful in defeating the United States and its allies, they won't stop there- as the North Vietnamese did. Afghanistan will once again become a staging point and factory for Islamic terrorism in its attempt to bring the whole world under the sword of it God. Have you forgotten already that Afghanistan was where the 9-11 hijackers planned and finished training? There was a similarity to Vietnam you omitted. If the combat had been waged as a WAR instead of a Police Action, the United States would have won. In both cases we had a president who lacked the moral courage.

• joanmoody | Jul 30, 2010, 12:59 PM EDT

  Look at the Brits in Afganistan in the 19th century and Russia in the 20th. Don't we learn anything from History?

• yellowstockings | Jul 30, 2010, 12:26 PM EDT

  I agree with you wholeheartedly and with most of the comments. However, I wonder why JDI2269 is calling Obama Howdy Doody. I thought we already had Howdy and the gang for eight years just recently. They also happened to start both these wars.

• jdi2269 | Jul 30, 2010, 12:14 PM EDT

  YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING !! WE HAVE "HOWDY DOODY" IN THE OVAL OFFICE AND NOTHING WILL GET BETTER UNTIL HE IS REMOVED !!!

• adhuil07 | Jul 30, 2010, 10:27 AM EDT

  AMEN - been saying this for a long time. This is a No Win Situation and a waste of our brave men and women. God, when will we ever learn. Bring all of our troops home and stope being the protector of the world. Bob Gardner (USAF)

• tomgallagher | Jul 30, 2010, 10:22 AM EDT

  Do we really need to be taught another lesson like Vietnam.? 58,000 Americans killed in action and in the end we ran with our tail between our legs. 99% of the rest of the world thinks we are crazy to get involved over there. We have to get out of Astan and Iraq and stop getting our Military killed in a lost cause.

• Searlit | Jul 30, 2010, 10:00 AM EDT

  There never should have been ground troops in the mideast, in the first place. George Bush Sr. knew better than to send in ground troops, but not his son. I hope the current adminisration will bring the troops home as soon as possible. I keep hearing reports, in the news, that Bin Laden is in Pakistan anyway.

• etig1130 | Jul 30, 2010, 09:56 AM EDT

  If we walk out of Afghanistan, we'll be surrendering that part of the world to Al Qaida & the Taliban...and then we can look forward to another terrorist attack. Islamic fundamentalism is looking to take over the world. They've taken over England & France...who's next?

• carrickcourt | Jul 30, 2010, 09:10 AM EDT

  I agree with you Niall. No major power, starting with Alexander the Great to the USSR has ever had "success" in Afghanistan. How does one deal with the treat of extremist elements in Afghanistan and get out of Afghanistan? Good luck figuring that one out. I believe an exit is the only way as the loss of USA lives in Afghanistan will never end. How many USA lives are to be spent supporting a corrupt Afghanistan government that has failed to improve the lot of their own citizens?

• DennisQ | Jul 30, 2010, 05:43 AM EDT

  George, the examples that you've used don't support your thesis that indigenous resistance can be overcome. You can argue that it can be brutally suppressed as is the case in Palestine and Chechnya, but that's at best only a temporary pause in the violence. I certainly hope we don't plan to do in Afghanistan what Russian puppet Ramzan Kadyrov is doing in Chechnya. He's a thug on the scale of Pol Pot or Saddam Hussein. And we don't want to endorse what the Israelis are doing in Palestine, much less replicate it. Iraq is relatively quiet only because we're leaving and everybody knows it. David Petraeus bought off the chieftains to create the illusion that the war is over, but it's not. As soon as the money runs out, the free-for-all will begin anew. I'm not rejecting your thesis entirely, but the examples you gave are inept. The elements that were there when the insurgencies began in Iraq, Palestine and Chechnya are still there, waiting for a relatively trivial event like an assassination. It is emphatically not true that indigenous resistance has been extirpated and lo! peace is on the land.

• GeorgeDavis | Jul 30, 2010, 04:03 AM EDT

  As a traditional conservative, I do not support American military interventions abroad. I stand with people like Pat Buchanan in saying that America should only defend itself when directly threatened. But Dennisq is talking nonsense when he claims "nothing works against indigenous resistance." That shows no understanding of history. There are countless examples of indigenous resistance movements being suppressed or failing for other reasons. Irish history alone will set you straight, DennisQ, but if that's not enough look at places like Palestine, Chechnya etc. And don't forget Iraq -- the "indigenous resistance movement" of say five years ago is gone, and all that's left is nihilistic and sectarian violence.

• DennisQ | Jul 30, 2010, 12:46 AM EDT

  The Pentagon should realize by now that there's no way to win against popularly-supported insurgencies. American armies are foreigners to the natives of the lands in which they fight. Americans further complicate the task of victory with their assumption of superiority to the inhabitants. Our soldiers are typically not even aware of their own attitudes. At home, Americans are stymied that the peoples of the world prefer their own values to American values. When American troops use violence to impose their values, the resistance they encounter often comes as a response to that violence. Since losing Vietnam, American generals decided the reason we lost was that we were too nice to our enemies. The "Powell Doctrine" implemented Iraq calls for nonstop bombing of civilian areas. It didn't work; in fact, nothing works against indigenous resistance. In Iran and Afghanistan, we've inherited the situation of the British occupying Ireland - about which Paul Johnson commented: In Ireland, over the centuries, we have tried every possible formula: direct rule, indirect rule, genocide, apartheid, puppet governments, real parliaments, marshal law, civil law, colonization, land reform, partition. Nothing has worked. The only solution we have not tried is absolute and unconditional withdrawal.