65 Comments

• kinvara7 | Nov 16, 2012, 07:53 AM EST

  I have already said that I have a high regard for the Diaspora and you can take it as a given that I know a great deal about it. There are perhaps a million people living abroad who have Irish citizenship and are eligible to run for President. This group includes not only people born in Ireland, but who were born abroad and acquired citizenship under the present laws. They are part of the Diaspora, outside of their group, there are millions who are, as you say "Irish by heritage and culture and not to mention GOODWILL". so the Diaspora can be broken down (for the sake of this debate) into those who are Irish citizens and those who don't, but have Irish ancestry etc. You ask: "How then could the Diaspora of 70 million nominate a candidate?" It is a good question. How do you think they could do it? I think if the Diaspora focused on itself as regards these issues it could find a viable solution. There are a million potential candidates and millions who should feel a common cause in putting forward and supporting one of their own. There could be a pan-Diaspora group formed with the goal of finding a candidate for the 2018 Presidential elections. The group could hold a number of conventions in relevant parts of the world. Each Diaspora convention would allow their communities to participate; those that care enough to participate could be given a vote to nominate a candidate at their convention. Let's say there are five conventions putting forward five potential candidates in total. A decided method would then select a single candidate to support in the Presidential election in 2018. The structure to nominate the candidate would then become the structure to support the candidate i.e. the structure necessary to raise the €350,000 or so needed to run a campaign. The election is six years away. If the Diaspora woke up to its failure in this regard then it could work to change it. Will it?

• molliepmac | Nov 16, 2012, 04:54 AM EST

  kinvara7;- Interesting article about The Constitutional Convention. -The Irish Times - Friday, November 16, 2012 The faceless sixty-six It’s bad enough that the Government should severely circumscribe the agenda of the constitutional convention, but it is bizarre and unprecedented decision to turn it into an advertising focus group by allowing its 66 “citizen” members to remain anonymous takes the biscuit. What price transparency, supposedly one of our new core values

• molliepmac | Nov 15, 2012, 01:27 PM EST

  kinvara 7 Re the Constitutional Convention – I have already said “the FIS (Federation of Irish Societies) in Britain are committed to engaging with the Convention and will make representations on behalf of the Irish in Britain." Did you not read my post? My understanding is that individuals cannot make representations. Can non- Citizens make representations? You have not commented on the fact that Craig Barrett ex INTEL and others have volunteered to sit on any Irish state board without pay - and are still waiting to get a call from Dublin. If he has no INFLUENCE what hope for others? What about the tone of Martina Devlins articles? Also have you ever thought to yourself 'how unkind' when your fellow citizens call diaspora 'loud Yanks or Plastic Paddies' ? You are also avoiding naming the improved heritage sites and statues of important people. By not naming them you confirm they do not exist. The last I will say on the issue is that from reading the comments of others on IC – Ireland needs the diaspora more than they need Ireland so the onus is on Ireland to think hard about a way forward.

• molliepmac | Nov 15, 2012, 01:18 PM EST

  MY interpretation of what McWilliams means ;- WELL the first sentence: “if we exploit the demographic potential” –the word ‘WE’ refers to YOU and the people of Ireland so you must interpret that. The second - “who can be buyers, advisers, investors and influencers”. This can mean the diaspora or others. I believe the Chinese are keen to invest / buy Ireland. From my own experience the diaspora in UK ( have in the past ) been BUYERS of Irish produce – meat and dairy – when English or Danish was cheaper – BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO SUPORT Ireland. They visit on holiday and pay the price. INFLUENCERS – in so so many ways. Irelands champions someone somewhere every day in every way. Advisors and Investors I am sure there are many. I say IN THE PAST. Even as late as the 60’s no Blacks no dogs no Irish – in parts of the UK Still they worked away and sent the remittances ‘home’ Things changed in the last 20 years. Ireland the Celtic Tiger became “ one of the richest countries in the world” ( what a joke )and the Irish in Britain were no longer needed/considered part of the Tribe. We discovered that ‘BUY IRISH’ didn’t apply in Ireland so we thought we didn’t have to BUY IRISH in the UK. Now all’s changed and you find you need our support after all. So we come back around to the question. How do the Irish in Ireland re build the broken bridge?

• molliepmac | Nov 15, 2012, 01:17 PM EST

  kinvara7. New question for you – have you ever lived or worked outside of Ireland? You do not seem to have any concept of the complexity and spread of the diaspora otherwise you would not ask such questions. However I have given some thought and answer of out courtesy. I assume that you are aware that the President of Ireland has to be an Irish citizen and that only Irish Citizens can vote in the election. That excludes several million of the diaspora as not all have an Irish born grandparent so cannot claim citizenship. The issue is a bone of contention. Millions are Irish by heritage and culture not to mention GOODWILL. How then could the diaspora of 70 million nominate a candidate? Who would be eligible to take part in such an exercise? A KEY question – how would the Irish citizens in Ireland view a President from outside of the Island? Have you thought of the reaction? Do you understand how difficult it would be to sort out the legalities?

• kinvara7 | Nov 15, 2012, 08:14 AM EST

  Molliepmac: Do you really believe that the Diaspora has pulled together as a unit? How do explain its inability to support one of its own in contesting the Presidential election? You have provided me with another quote from David McWilliams, but I’m asking you to give me YOUR interpretation of what he means when he says things like: “if we exploit the demographic potential”, and “who can be buyers, advisers, investors and influencers”. I know a great deal about the Diaspora, telling me about Kingsley Aikins, a person I drew your attention to in the context of this debate, is pointless. I have a high regard for the Diaspora, but if the Diaspora constantly has ‘isn’t the Diaspora brilliant’ conversations with itself then it is unlikely to address some of its failings. I want to hear YOUR views on what the role of the Diaspora should be. As regards the Constitutional Convention, here is a passage from a speech made by the Taoiseach: “it is anticipated that interest groups and non-governmental organisations will be able to interact with the Convention, including by making submissions…The Government also hopes that there will be active engagement with the Diaspora.” So what submissions would you make? That is basically what I have asked, and I’m still waiting for a reply.

• molliepmac | Nov 14, 2012, 05:35 AM EST

  esatdigiwank;- Yes I do know! Add to that Possible sell-off of the public forests managed by Coillte Interest has been expressed by Swiss finance company Helvetia Wealth - who own the International Forestry Fund (IFF) - chaired by Bertie Ahern, (ex-prime minister of Ireland) as well as The China Investment Corporation. Massive windfarms proposed for the midlands to supply power to UK none for the Irish grid. So it goes on.

• molliepmac | Nov 14, 2012, 05:25 AM EST

  kinvara7;- You have asked me to answer your questions asking why the diaspora have not pulled together as a unit. Then you go on to provide the answer that they have in fact done so for years. 1. The Ireland Funds – 35 years raising millions for projects in Ireland- Kingsley Aikins was involved. 2.The Global Irish Economic Forum 2009 followed on from David McWilliams Generation Game – he said “ If we exploit the demographic potential of the Diaspora, we can re-invigorate the nation.” ….The Forum established The Global Irish Network. Craig Barrett and others have volunteered to sit on any Irish state board without pay - still waiting to get a call from Dublin.( wonder why - can you suggest a reason haha!) See the IC 23 September “Irish too often spurn Diaspora advice says top Wall Street figure”. With regard to the Constitutional convention – only 100 delegates in total made up of Parliamentarians and 66 randomly selected citizens so I do not think there was an invite for a ‘diaspora delegate’ as such although there certainly were calls for such representation. Who had the remit to issue invitations? Certainly the FIS (Federation of Irish Societies) in Britain are committed to engaging with the Convention and make representations on behalf of the Irish in Britain Yes President Higgins has an affinity with the Irish in Britain - he lived in London and Manchester in the 60's and has family there. Elaine Byrne - well jolly good - about time. Makes up for the disparaging remarks made by the likes of Martina Devlin- the gist of which is - we had better be nice to the diaspora now we need their cash - but wasnt it great fun to have a sneer at them in the past. The diaspora in Britain are aware of Irish products. We have been buying them for years. Now your turn; Name the Heritage Sites that are better? Name and place the statues of famous people?

• kinvara7 | Nov 13, 2012, 12:14 PM EST

  As regards David McWilliams not being the exception, you should look up Kingsley Aikins and the Global Diaspora Strategies Toolkit; Elaine Byrne wrote a fine Article in the Irish Independent around the time of the Notre Dame v. Navy Game; President Higgins has spoken a lot about the Diaspora in Britain and visited Irish communities there both before and after his election. Furthermore, what I wrote meant that McWilliams’ views were accepted by a great many people in Ireland. You seem to be quite happy with David McWilliams, and he is a strong advocate for the Diaspora. One of the questions he asked once was “What if each village in Ireland could harness the economic power of its Diaspora?” The question arose from an examination of an innovative plan for parishes to reach out to members of the Diaspora connected with it and welcome them back for a week of lectures and cultural engagements etc. McWilliams states that one of the goals is to: “identify…enterprising members of the Tribe who can be buyers, advisers, investors and influencers for the benefit of not just the locality but the Irish nation as a whole.” Tangible connections need such involvement. As I said, Irish communities need consumers for the products they produce and the Irish Diaspora should be more aware of, and interested in, the products made here.

• kinvara7 | Nov 13, 2012, 11:15 AM EST

  If you scroll down the comment thread you will see that I have asked my questions first, and as you appear to believe in the concept of first in time, I would be grateful if you could respond to them. The type of comments you have made are made time and again on this website, that is why I say they are predictable. Now we could have the same old “isn’t the Diaspora brilliant’ backslapping conversation which is the norm on IC, or we could have a focused debate on why a Diaspora, apparently 70 million strong, have failed to organize themselves in an effective way. A Debate that includes the views of people such as yourself in the Diaspora, and asks what role you think you should have.

• kinvara7 | Nov 13, 2012, 10:52 AM EST

  Molliepmac: Here is an example of what I mean, when I say the Diaspora deftly ignores its own failings –even though such an examination would serve them better: The Irish Presidency. You talk about the 70 million strong Diaspora, well will they organize to raise the $400,000 needed so that one of their own can contest the 2018 election? Why haven’t they done so already?

• esatdigiwank | Nov 13, 2012, 05:11 AM EST

  Molliepmac: Us Irish colonized? You don't know a fraction of. Do you know that British Gas may soon have its talons on Irish drinking water rights?? Our drinking water comes under the auspice of the Irish Gas Board (Bórd Gais), and that soon to be sold to the highest bidder. Diaspora need to save Ireland from itself - Connacht and adjacent soon to be raped by fracking!!

• eiriamach | Nov 12, 2012, 08:30 AM EST

  If it's "not a scam" and if Gabriel Byrne is "right on culture," then why did the Irish government pull funding for Byrne and put multi-million-dollar American CEOs like Fox Broadcasting President Denis Swanson to work designing the program? That's a scam the way running the "Jersey Shore" TV program and calling it "cultural programming" would be a scam. But don't worry: Americans will flock to it with full pockets-- the Irish-descended who voted for Romney and worship American entrepreneurs like demi-gods who should walk the earth tax-free. (The Diaspora elsewhere in the world, however, may catch on). The Gathering is their cupp'a tea, their electoral consolation prize, and they have the money to spend on it. But good luck to the Tourism Board getting that crowd to part with their money (LOL!) Will Sean Hannitty and Bill O'Reilly be their masters of ceremony?

• molliepmac | Nov 12, 2012, 07:06 AM EST

  kinvara7;- You say the Diaspora are .."deftly ignoring any examination of their own failings -even though such an examination might stand to them better" What exactly do you mean? Can you please clarify? To find out how the diaspora "FAILED" Ireland in the past do a bit of research - start with - Catherine Dunne An Unconsidered People - 'In one year alone, 1961, the value of the emigrant remittances reached £13.5m (€15.3m). The entire primary and secondary education budget of the State that year was £14m. They educated an entire generation from afar.'

• molliepmac | Nov 11, 2012, 08:42 PM EST

  kinvara7;- another question I posed - you have not answered. -Around 2006 Irish Ferries let their Irish staff go and now employ mainly Latvians at a lower wage. I wrote to the’ powers that be ‘in Ireland to protest. How many Irish protested at that move? How often has it been repeated? DID YOU PROTEST?

• molliepmac | Nov 11, 2012, 08:05 PM EST

  kinvara 7 ;- Nostalgia? I was last in Ireland 2 months ago. Sorry I do not recognise the picture you paint. Public transport virtually non existant outside of cities. Bus fares about 5 times the cost of the same journey in the UK. Moore Street N M under threat from developers. Motorways over Heritage sites. Artisan food - twice the price as elswhere. British shops everywhere( all the lovely money coming to the UK) Sorry never heard of Frommer's travel guide. questions; 1.Name the failings of the diaspora? 2. Name the Heritage Sites that are better? 3. Name and place the statues? 4.DAVID MCWILLIAMS far from the exception? Please please name others? so I can read what they have to say.

• Frosty38 | Nov 11, 2012, 04:06 PM EST

  this for the man looking for his name Esther McClurg, of Downpatrick,Co-Down, Ireland. She married John Skillen. Four known children. Jane b. 1821. John* b.1824..Jemima b.1833 & Esther b.1839. The children were born in Ballygawley and Ballyrenan in Downpatrick. *John, born 1824 married Margaret McMurray, in 1846. Their daur Elizabeth Ann Skillen b.1858 was my gt grandmother.

• kinvara7 | Nov 11, 2012, 07:33 AM EST

  Molliepmac: I have asked a number of questions, and I'm still waiting for you (or indeed anyone from the Diaspora) to answer them. Unfortunately, the type of messages people from the Diaspora are leaving are quite predictable in how they lay all the blame at the feet of the 'natives', while deftly ignoring any examination of their own failings -even though such an examination might stand to them better. I would have left you a longer reply the last day but I did not have the time. You said that the 'natives' have 'jettisoned' their culture and heritage etc., and that "If the natives get the ‘product’ right the Diaspora will be back to enjoy it. Have you any idea how to bring that about?" To be perfectly honest, I believe the 'product' has never been better. The towns have never looked better; the access to heritage sites; the restoration of old buildings; the erection of statues honouring figures of importance etc. The infrastructure has never been better; the choice of activities and festivals has never been better; the experience regarding artisan food etc., has never been better. After all, Ireland was voted the best tourist destination by readers of Frommer's travel guide in 2011. Now I can't make up for any sense of nostalgia you might have; holidays at your grandparents when you were young will always trump experiences in later years.

• Seanmor | Nov 10, 2012, 01:46 PM EST

  MaryM: Even if you don't consider yourseld "irish in any way", you still inherited DNA from your grandparnts who were Irish. If everyone left Irland as they -and I - did, there wouldn't be an Ireland anymore, even one that is now rapidly disappearing because so many of its nativs are emigrating and being replaced by foreigners, legal and illegal. I'll also state that I'm exceedingly grateful to IRISH CENTRAL for posting nearly al of my comments, many of which would NOT appear in print in the pro-Partitionist Irish media. As an English-born U.S. citizen of Irish parents, I feel a very strong sense of loyalty to this great nation and a firm cultural attachment to ALL of Ireland. But the part of that country that was formerly known as the Free State means almost nothng to me in and of itself, especially while it is being misgoverned by Partitionis politicians.

• MaryM232 | Nov 10, 2012, 11:25 AM EST

  Niall spits in the face of US citizens of Irish ancestry and views the US as a fat victim for the Irish to feed parasitically from, any critique of Byrne's comments, coming from Niall is a joke. This US citizen, whose paternal grandparents were Irish, doesn't consider herself Irish in any way, shape or form and have taught my children, using each example presented, for example, Bertie Ahern talking about Americans as though we were chattel, to sell or trade, the racist, whining, entitlement queens that write on Irish Central, that any of the Irish people who were good or worthy in any way, emigrated a long time ago. That Ireland has degenerated into a cesspit of hateful, greedy, grasping people that we have no connection to.

• Seanmor | Nov 09, 2012, 08:25 PM EST

  The powers-that-be in the Irish state need our dollasrs, even though they couldn't care less about our well being.

• WoundedKnee | Nov 09, 2012, 03:17 PM EST

  kinvara aka oloonsigh aka godknowswhatelse---I have only one user name, and I will continue to articulate the views of that 70% of the Irish people who when polled express opposition to the settlement of their country by huge numbers of foreigners. You're a liar--the views of these people have most certainly been stifled in Ireland. You Mass Immigrationists have nothing to offer here except lies and bigotry. You hate Ireland and its culture, and want to replace Irish people by foreigners.

• seamus60 | Nov 09, 2012, 01:48 PM EST

  We`ll know its a scam when we see Gerry and Marty with a wee stall set up on O Connell Street selling their infamous product, the bottled water called "Only our rivers run Free". LOL

• molliepmac | Nov 09, 2012, 11:58 AM EST

  kinvara7; you answer a question with a question. Well the diaspora are said to be 70 million around the world and Ireland as a whole 6 million. The question regarding The Gathering is whether the 6 million are willing to reach out to the rest and make them GENUINELY welcome ? The diaspora have no control over the TOURISM PRODUCT its down to the natives to figure out what a quality product is. Bord Failte say over and over that cultural tourism is important. Why then do we see for example the current row over Moore Street? Whatever ones views on 1916 it is utterly inconceivable that another National Monument is under threat of destruction by developers wanting to build another British store. Ye are well and truly colonised. QUESTION FOR YOU - SORRY TO REPEAT IT;- the tourism product is devalued. This seems to be the problem in that the ‘tourism product’ should consist of more than hotels and shops ( most of which are now British - all those lovely profits heading for the UK). Irelands most valuable UNIQUE asset is her heritage sites, history, language, culture – much of which appears to have been jettisoned by the natives during the smoke and mirrors of the Celtic Tiger years. If the natives get the ‘product’ right the diaspora will be back to enjoy it. Have you any idea how to bring that about? DAVID MCWILLIAMS far from the exception? Please please name others so I can read what they have to say. Who speaks for the diaspora? Well GABRIEL BYRNE just has. He has said he is relaying the views of many in the US and I think many in the UK would agree with him.

• kinvara7 | Nov 09, 2012, 11:07 AM EST

  @Woundedknee: How many times have I engaged you on that very topic? 20 times? More probably. How many times have you posted about it (under all your usernames)? Would it be a part of 90% of your countless posts here on IC? So the idea that I’m stifling you from debating that topic is laughable. In my last post to you I said: I’d like to hear what you think about leadership in the Diaspora and the role of the Diaspora etc. Could you ‘decide’ on a post that would resemble a reply to this?

• kinvara7 | Nov 09, 2012, 10:54 AM EST

  Molliepmac, David McWilliams is far from the exception when it comes to recognizing the Diaspora. Is there anyone in the Diaspora that eloquently and forcefully communicates ideas, like he does, about the potential of the Diaspora? Perhaps the question to be asked is not whether Ireland is out of touch with its Diaspora, but whether the Diaspora is out of touch with itself? Does it have a unity of purpose? If it doesn’t, then who is to blame for that?

• WoundedKnee | Nov 09, 2012, 10:38 AM EST

  kinvara> You don't get to decide what other people put in their posts. I'm sure you'd like to stifle all free discussion and critique of Mass Immigration, just like the ruling class in Ireland has done. But it won't work in my case. And maybe you need to consider the absurdity of what you say--in a discussion on Ireland's relationship with its emigrants you want to outlaw any consideration of Ireland's Open Door Mass Immigration policy. Shhh...Don't mention the immigrants!!! You're nuts.

• molliepmac | Nov 09, 2012, 09:20 AM EST

  kinvara7; In my post I pointed out that around 2006 Irish Ferries let their Irish staff go and now employ mainly Latvians at a lower wage. I wrote to the’ powers that be ‘in Ireland to protest. How many Irish protested at that move? How often has it been repeated? Now the ferry could well be on the Baltic heading for Riga – no feeling of anticipation at approaching Ireland. Thus the tourism product is devalued. This seems to be the problem in that the ‘tourism product’ should consist of more than hotels and shops ( most of which are now British - all those lovely profits heading for the UK). Irelands most valuable UNIQUE asset is her heritage sites, history, language, culture – much of which appears to have been jettisoned by the natives during the smoke and mirrors of the Celtic Tiger years. If the natives get the ‘product’ right the diaspora will be back to enjoy it. Have you any idea how to bring that about?

• IrelandNorth | Nov 09, 2012, 08:19 AM EST

  The Irish Times quoted An Taoiseach Ó Cíonnaith asking Irish traders not to rip-off diaspora during The Gathering, perhaps a reaction to Gabriel Byrne's criticisms? Yet a cute-hoor (ie shyster!) element does see the diaspora through cash-register spectacles. Their céad míle fáilte (kead meela fall-che)/hundred thousand welcomes is for diaspora with Aus/Can/NZ/US$ Stg£/€100,000 - ie a welcome per currency unit. The Irish government bailed-out the banksters who killed the Celtic Tiger with public money payed for by savage cut backs in public spending, (similar to policies that drove Irish people away from these shores under previous colonial rule). Now politicians want disapora to replenish the Exchequer. Maybe the banksters should be bailing-out the diaspora. What about blue-collar diaspora. The Government could reciprocate the diaspora's spiritual connection by runnning such conneection on a not-for-profit basis. The extent to which they do so will determine their degree of authenticity.

• kinvara7 | Nov 09, 2012, 07:16 AM EST

  @Woundedknee: In 2006, near the height of the construction boom and the attraction it had for young job seekers, 21% of those working in hotels were non-nationals. Furthermore, you need to remember that the tourist industry is not just about hotels. Are you able to discuss any of the substantive issues I’ve raised in my previous posts, or do you just want to talk about immigrants again? Because, I think, we’ve spoken about that before; perhaps we could park that for this thread. I’d like to hear what you think about leadership in the Diaspora and the role of the Diaspora etc.

• molliepmac | Nov 09, 2012, 05:09 AM EST

  bonjouryall; Dont be put off.Do go to Tara! Before you go read about why the Irish built a motorway through the landscape - which should be a World Heritage Site( when other routes were available for the road). There is plenty of information on the internet about Tara and the M3 motorway. Do try to visit nearby Newgrange and Knowth when you are there.

• WoundedKnee | Nov 09, 2012, 02:53 AM EST

  Kinvara ("Most of the Jobs in the Irish tourist industry are held by Irish people"): In every hotel stay I have made in Ireland in the last few years, the folks at reception have not been Irish, the shuttle bus driver has not been Irish, the waiter/waitress in the restaurant has not been Irish, the guy serving drinks in the bar was not Irish, the chambermaid was not Irish... So where were all the hidden Irish working in these hotels? The answer is that they aren't there, and that you're a liar. Even hotels in areas of huge unemployement (such as Dublin Airport´s Hilton, right beside a big working-class community) prefer to hire foreign workers from a thousand miles away rather than the young Irish men and women on their doorstep. Anyone who visits Ireland in order to support Irish workers is a fool. The hotel & restaurant sector and vast other areas of the economy are dominated by foreign settlers.

• WoundedKnee | Nov 09, 2012, 02:36 AM EST

  Bonjourall: You´'re wasting your time visiting Tara. Th Irish built a highway right thru it.

• bonjouryall | Nov 08, 2012, 08:58 PM EST

  Even if it's jacked up, the country is still cheaper than France. Don't know if I can make it next year as a result of more expenses this year and belt-tightening next, but I'll try. I want to see the original Tara plus the museums in Dublin. I've made two trips already but with only one day in Dublin.

• Seanmor | Nov 08, 2012, 05:32 PM EST

  A few questions come to my mind about the gathering of 2013 in Ireland: (1) Do they include the whole Irish nation, or merely the part of the country which is under the control of the Dáil? (2) Are New Yorkers who pasrticipated in the St. Patrick's Day parades of '83 and '85, which were bycotted b the government in Dublin, welcome to these gatherings? Are new York residents whose 'nationality' applies to All Ireland acceptable tourists at the gatherings? Na Gael san Oileán Mór a bhfuil Gaeilge mheasartha maith againn, am mbeidh cead againn dul thar ais go hÉirinn i gcóir na "gatherings? I'd greatly like an official answer to the above questiona, le bhur dtoil.

• molliepmac | Nov 08, 2012, 01:52 PM EST

  kinvara7. I might be 'the type of person' Gabriel Byrne refers to. You are clearly not aware that the diaspora have supported Ireland down the years not just materially but defending the Republics 'good name' often at their own risk of ridicule through very hard times since the State was founded. There has always been a huge amount of goodwill towards Ireland. The Irish diaspora in the UK ( before we were labeled 'Plastic Paddies' )used to buy Irish produce, butter, cheese meats even though it was more expensive than English Danish etc. Do the Irish at home 'buy Irish'? With regard to tourists travelling from Uk by ferry. Irish Ferries crews are almost all Latvian. What a great introduction for new tourists - no great Irish welcome there. Did you protest a few years ago when they sacked the Irish crews to employ cheaper labour? I did. Who in the UK can afford Irish whiskey at £20 a bottle when Scotch is £12? I do agree that the diaspora should be more involved in heritage issues however recent experience over the M3 through the Tara landscape shows that our views are not welcome. Diaspora labeled " busybodies from abroad with leprecaun ideas" by Meath councillors. No they have a failed motorway the AA roads head said recently 'its so empty you could almost take off from it'. We knew it was the wrong route for the motorway the short Orange route being better but we were told that it was what the people of Ireland wanted. I am sorry but I think Gabriel Byrne is right Ireland is out of touch with the diaspora and sadly unaware of their contribution over the last 150 years. ( David McWilliams is the exception)

• kinvara7 | Nov 08, 2012, 12:48 PM EST

  The Irish economy needs consumers; the creation of jobs in Ireland requires consumers. The Diaspora (like most of the Irish at home) will point the finger at the government of the day, but any government can only do so much. Jobs are created by businesses and businesses are created by meeting the demands of consumers. Ireland has a small population but the Irish Diaspora is quite large. However, does the Irish Diaspora consume enough Irish products? Does the Irish Diaspora help create a demand for Irish products in other countries and thus help create sustainable jobs in Ireland? Or does the type of person who Gabriel talks about just buy a bottle of whiskey for Christmas? And then expect a great deal of thanks for that act? If the Irish Diaspora is serious about wanting to improve the Irish economy and to create sustainable jobs, then the least it can expect to do is buy Irish products on a regular basis, and create a wider demand for same. By way of example: Scotch continues to dominate the US market. Sales of Irish whiskey are increasing, but the Irish Diaspora needs to ask itself: why, in a country where the Irish are so numerous, has it taken so long to see this trend develop and to what extent is it down to the marketing strength of a French company rather than the interest of the Irish Diaspora? Whiskey is one example there are many others.

• kinvara7 | Nov 08, 2012, 12:44 PM EST

  @Woundedknee: Most of the Jobs in the Irish tourist industry are held by Irish people. The rest are all taxpayers. The health of this industry impacts on the wider community. As regards what Irish Americans should care about, I think they should care about the Diaspora beyond America as well as Ireland, and I think they should do a better job of representing themselves rather than feeling so put-upon. They should also examine what responsibilities (as well as rights) they think they should have if there is going to be a real ‘bridge’ between the Diaspora and Island of Ireland.

• Searlit | Nov 08, 2012, 12:40 PM EST

  BrianO, try opening your heart, that usually makes people feel generous. People are very aware that when they go anywhere, even their local markets that they need to spend their money to support the economy. The bottom line, though, for most people is that it feels good to help other people.

• CitizenWhy | Nov 08, 2012, 11:45 AM EST

  Other than her my only source on the gathering is a Clare Facebook page. People on the page seem genuinely enthusiastic about Gathering plans and events in Clare, worked out by a local Clare committee, not by Dublin. So this article is right to emphasize the local nature of The Gathering. There often is too much emphasis on Dublin and official and government organizations. Clare for one has done a marvelous job on history and ancestry resources, many on the web. Other counties are working to catch up or surpass Clare, and the local gatherings in counties will help to spur these efforts. Overall a good thing though of no appeal to me.

• BrianO | Nov 08, 2012, 11:35 AM EST

  The gathering is a marketing attempt from the Irish tourism bureau, good for them as that is their job. The problem will be to get tourists to spend money in these uncertain and depressed times. I will wait for better days and protect my family from the upcoming deep recession that is on the horizon.

• WoundedKnee | Nov 08, 2012, 11:00 AM EST

  Frosty38: "They have found better jobs one of the Managers told me." That manager told you a lie. Don´t be so gullible when you visit Ireland. The Irish found "better jobs" but nearly 15% of the population is unemployed and thousands leave every month? Use your head.

• WoundedKnee | Nov 08, 2012, 10:55 AM EST

  Kinvara--Why should Irish Americans worry about creating jobs in the Irish tourist industry, when most of those jobs will be held by Poles, Russians etc? Get real.

• Murph46 | Nov 08, 2012, 09:29 AM EST

  Is there anyone out there that doubts airfare,B&B,car rentals,petrol,food prices won't get jacked up?

• kinvara7 | Nov 08, 2012, 09:14 AM EST

  “What if the diaspora was organised enough to submit some serious comment on how Ireland is being run.” Why isn’t the Diaspora organized enough to do that? That’s one of the questions I asked below. In the meantime, one issue that materially impacts many people in this country is the issue of jobs, and maintaining to tourism trade is important in this regard. The Irish Diaspora needs to coalesce into a more meaningful group. That is the responsibility of the Diaspora not ‘official Ireland’. Organizing the necessary funds to support one of their own in the next Presidential race in 2018 is a good place to start as it gives some shape to things and a deadline of sorts. I support giving the vote to Irish citizens (as opposed to the Diaspora) living abroad. However, I think that those who CAN pay, should pay a SMALL nominal amount when and if they choose to vote, and that that money should go towards supporting projects that benefit ALL Irish people, be it in areas of heritage conservation and research etc. I believe that if an organized Diaspora came forward with ideas and proposals that communicated a desire to accept some responsibilities as well, then there would be quicker change. The first meeting of the constitutional convention will take place on December 1st, in Dublin Castle. If a meaningful Diaspora group isn’t taking part and making submissions, then who is to blame? Anyway, have a good one in Mexico and watch the old Tequila consumption!

• Frosty38 | Nov 08, 2012, 08:58 AM EST

  When I went a couple of years ago. I did notice that the waiters were from the Eastern Counties and not AS MANY Irish waiting tables. They have found better jobs one of the Managers told me. But I'm back in 2013 for the Gathering. I hope I can connect with some of my clan members. Doherty-McLauhlin-McCann- Mcguire . I can't wait

• southerner | Nov 08, 2012, 08:19 AM EST

  Hi Kinvara7,thank you for your comment.You are correct when you indicate that ministers would not be hurt by a tourism drop. Rather those employed in the industry.You may agree that nothing can hurt Irish Ministers,the gravy train is well insulated! But I do believe that by acting on a campaign like the gathering is to submit to an amateurish attempt at dressing up an ad campaign as a real welcome home.Tugging at the strings of our nationalism.Urging us to do our bit for Ireland.Coming from the people who have demonstrably sold the country and its citizens to European bankers to protect their own interests.A bit rich I feel. What if the diaspora was organised enough to submit some serious comment on how Ireland is being run. Not comments based on green fields and pints but on issues which materially effect the lives of the people.This week for example we had the Minister for Finance say he did not have the power to stop bank executives paying themselves hundreds of thousands of euros from government bailout money. Why does he not have the power? He has the power to reduce old-age pensioners to poverty but not to stop the bankers robbing the taxpayers.It makes my blood boil to see the country raped like this.By its own government.So we can't blame the foreigners. Do you think the diaspora would or should have an interest in concrete issues like this. Or are we happy to play hurling, miss home and fly the flag on Paddy's Day? See you in Mexico next year, the craic should be good!!

• kinvara7 | Nov 08, 2012, 07:41 AM EST

  Southerner, you say: “most of us would feel our attachment would be quasi-spiritual. Like our religion it should not be used for cheap commercial purposes.” I’d like to have a debate about what the Diaspora believes its role should be. Could you provide any answers? You say you’re going to visit Mexico this year, well that’s fine. What if everyone in the Diaspora decided to do the same? Would it hurt government ministers or would it hurt Irish people working in the tourism trade and the families they support?

• southerner | Nov 08, 2012, 07:02 AM EST

  It seems to me that the Gathering is just a marketing campaign to encourage tourism to Ireland. Viewed as such it is no more a shakedown then any other.It trades on the emotional attachment we feel for our home-place. Does this mean that it belittles or de-values this feeling?? Probably yes, because most of us would feel our attachment would be quasi-spiritual. Like our religion it should not be used for cheap commercial purposes. Especially by a Government which treats its citizens with utter contempt in order to maintain the power of its elites. And that's the ones whoo live there !! Imagine the contempt they hold for the diaspora! And they are asking us to spend our money there to help them. Bunch of lying thieves. I think Gabriel probably got it right. its Mexico for me this year.

• hollabackgurl | Nov 07, 2012, 05:42 PM EST

  Wouldn’t it be more honest if “The Gathering” were renamed “The Whip-Round”? Come home to Mother Ireland and help pay for the elite’s private debts. Then take a hike back to America, England or Oz. - Paul Stuart, Dublin

• davidpmullins | Nov 07, 2012, 05:10 PM EST

  I share Gabriel Byrne's perspective and the not too critical view on The Gathering Ireland 2013, especially in the radio interview he referred to what he heard from the Irish Diaspora in US and not totally an uninformed opinion.

• casper1377 | Nov 07, 2012, 02:30 PM EST

  Hahaha, well said BrianO!

• BrianO | Nov 07, 2012, 01:59 PM EST

  Everything is a scam.

• nicgearailt | Nov 07, 2012, 12:30 PM EST

  If Gabriel does not support the Gathering,fine..but can he come up with a better plan ? I am am amazed at the number of people I have met, that go to Ireland ,having no connection with the place whatsoever.. I love the idea of going there but the fares are steep,and Aer Lingus does not seem to be in any way able to offer bargains to people like me. Getting back to Gabriel's comments..it's too bad he feels that way.That does not entitle him to knock it .Irish people are pretty savvy..they figure things out pretty well. I will be going to Ireland next year,no matter what ..

• luckodeirish | Nov 07, 2012, 11:58 AM EST

  I would love to see airlines making fares more affordable for the regular Irish people who go home to visit family and friends. People who have to spend nearly a thousand dollars to visit over the holidays. If fares were cheaper there could be a 'gathering' every few months!!

• richard cahill | Nov 07, 2012, 11:58 AM EST

  my initial reaction was to agree with Gabriel. I have been visiting the US over the past 20 years. I was offended by the presentation of the Gathering, particularly by the Minister for State Ring. His thoughtless guff probably set Gabriel off as it did me. However despite the premature end of Gabriels ambassadorial role, which was a rare good idea, I rethought my position. The concept was a good one but there is no sign of any practical incentives like subsidised airfares. Py the full whack at home and here!! A rethink is have required! Invest a little to reap the rewards? My invitation to the Diaspora is come and enjoy yourselves.the welcome is genuine. We have gobshites here but they are no more numerous than the US species so they can be ignored. Gabriel can be forgiven any trespass on the basis that he woke people up to a debateable point - - the genuineness of the Gathering.

• bobby | Nov 07, 2012, 11:15 AM EST

  You are not forced to go, i will be in Ireland in 2 weeks and again next year because i like the country. @carrickcourt i find it hard to understand alot of American accents also some english/Scottish/Welsh accents.

• Silling | Nov 07, 2012, 10:48 AM EST

  Why was there no gathering when the Celtic Tiger was roaming The Hiber Nation. Now that you are broke and can't afford to go and rob the Air Head Yanks, you invite them over for a bushwhacking.

• LiamScanlan | Nov 07, 2012, 10:06 AM EST

  As an Irish American, The Gathering does feel like an attempt at a shakedown. I can visit Ireland any time I like, just like Irish residents can visit the USA any time they like. I don't need a catchy marketing name for the visit, or to go there when everyone else is going there. Scam I tell you!

• Springfield9 | Nov 07, 2012, 10:03 AM EST

  Possibly the ONLY thing SinnFein ever saw clearly ws the tremendous potential of the Irish Americans to want to aid Ireland in any way possible. For the cynics: Look over the S/F checkbook

• carrickcourt | Nov 07, 2012, 09:54 AM EST

  I noted the item on "The Gathering" business on the RTE web site last night. The problem is that the reality of the Irish Diaspora is that while we are of Irish or part Irish heritage we are not "really" Irish. While I am eligible for Irish citizenship because my paternal grandfather was Irish born I realize that I am "American". Talking to the wife of an Irish cousin in Co. Monaghan the other day Maggie asked when I was coming back to visit them. Maggie was genuine and "The Gathering" business was something that was not a concern to her about my returning to visit them. Members of the Irish Diaspora be proud of you ancestry, visit Ireland whenever, and enjoy the hospitality of the "native" Irish. If you are invited in to an Irish kitchen for a cup of tea and a biscuit enjoy it and do not rush off to the next spot you might want to visit in Ireland. Now as to being able to understand the people in the Irish kitchen that is a whole other "concern".

• kinvara7 | Nov 07, 2012, 09:32 AM EST

  When I talk about how the Irish Diaspora needs to organize itself, here is an example: Niall O’Dowd, prides himself on being well up on Diaspora issues and that pride is largely well founded. He attempted to run for the Irish Presidency last year. He pulled out after failing to get the support of a political party and he ruled out running as an independent citing inter alia, that an independent would have no chance and that he would need $700,000 to fund the campaign. As it turned out an independent almost won (he would have won only for a big mistake on the last televised debate). It is clear that a credible independent can win the Irish Presidency. As regards campaign funds, that independent apparently spent around $412,676 on his campaign. There are, apparently, 40 million Irish Americans and 70 million in the Irish Diaspora as a whole… can the Irish Diaspora not organize itself sufficiently to pull together €400,000 so that one of their own (Niall or not) can give the next election a credible shot? If it can’t then one has to ask how capable and how engaged the Irish Diaspora can be? The current President says he will serve only one term and the next election is scheduled for 2018… you have six years to get organized and if there isn’t a member of the Irish Diaspora contesting the next Presidential election don’t blame ‘official Ireland’.

• kinvara7 | Nov 07, 2012, 08:59 AM EST

  The Irish Diaspora needs to stop feeling so put-upon and it needs to organize and to communicate a vision of a mature and beneficial relationship. It needs to have a good look at itself, and ask what it really wants, and whether it is willing to contribute in a real way. This idea of the relationship being a ‘shake-down’ needs to be examined. The people that visit do so because they want to. They have to expect to pay for that experience, just as I did when I travelled to America. Sadly, for some people within the Diaspora, tourism to Ireland must forever be seen as an act of benign charity…one which demands some sort of extra consideration, and I believe that this is a bad message for ‘Diaspora leaders’ to send out.

• kinvara7 | Nov 07, 2012, 08:57 AM EST

  I can understand where Gabriel is coming from but in general I disagree with the tone of his comments. Around the time of the Notre Dame v Navy Game in Dublin (Go Irish!) there was a big influx of American tourists, and this was very welcome. However, I was struck by the amount of times I heard such comments as: “This is our first time in Ireland; we’ve always wanted to come” etc. Now, these were the words of affluent people in their fifties, the type who Gabriel and others talk about as having a ‘very powerful spiritual connection to the Island of Ireland.’ I’ve been to America a number of times; I’ve done the tourist stuff, and paid for it; spent my money in shops etc., etc. I love America. I don’t profess to have a ‘deep spiritual connection’ with the place, yet I have been there more often than the above mentioned have visited Ireland –How is that? How could they have such a deep connection, yet go over fifty years without visiting -only to be brought over by a well marketed football game? Now, some of you will say that those people will be back again, and maybe they will, but it seems like they took their time in deciding to visit and it seems a well marketed event gave them the push.

• MickRegan | Nov 07, 2012, 08:18 AM EST

  You're right in what you say Niall, but some Irish politicians really need to stop and think before they speak, the junior Minister for Tourism in response to Gabriel for example - 'Look it, it’s in everybody’s interest that we get people into the country. I want this to be a success. And I want to make sure that we can get badly wanted revenue into the country. That we can get as many visitors as possible into the country, that will create the necessary employment that we need and we certainly need employment, we need revenue and we need everybody wearing the green jersey at this particular time in the country.' It's messages like that that risk undermining the gathering, whereas I think Gabriel's comments offered up the possibility for a debate about how official Ireland sees its relationship with the diaspora developing. That too could be an opportunity, if certain politicians would open themselves up to it.