N.Y. Times' Paul Krugman says Ireland is the poster boy for zombie economics
Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 at 09:21 PM
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Ireland is the poster boy for Zombie economics, says Paul Krugman The New York Times columnist and Nobel Prize winner in economics.
Zombie economics he says is "the strange triumph of failed ideas. Free-market fundamentalists have been wrong about everything — yet they now dominate the political scene more thoroughly than ever."
As examples he quotes current British Tory chancellor of the Exchequer “Ireland,” declared George Osborne in 2006, “stands as a shining example of the art of the possible in long-term economic policymaking.”
"Whoops. But Mr. Osborne is now Britain’s top economic official." Krugman says
And he says Britain is now making the Irish mistake of cutting too severely. " In his new position, Osborne is’ " setting out to emulate the austerity policies Ireland implemented after its bubble burst." he notes
Krugman claims that is a dreadful mistake. " After all, conservatives on both sides of the Atlantic spent much of the past year hailing Irish austerity as a resounding success. “The Irish approach worked in 1987-89 — and it’s working now,” declared Alan Reynolds of the Cato Institute last June.
"Whoops, again." says Krugman
Ireland is one example of the rush to "empower bad ideas" Krugman states.
"But it’s one thing to make deals to advance your goals; it’s another to open the door to zombie ideas. When you do that, the zombies end up eating your brain — and quite possibly your economy too."
Frequently Krugman has made Ireland the whipping boy for the European crash and has stated that they are making all the wrong moves to get out of recession.
He is certainly making some interesting points and I have a sneaking suspicion he is correct.
65 Comments
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hancock | Dec 24, 2010, 11:22 PM EST
Don't bother seamus.
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seamusmoore | Dec 24, 2010, 05:49 PM EST
DennisQ your propensity to obfuscate astounds me. NOBODY, particularly on the right, thinks that Bush's spending wasn't a problem. The Tea Party was as much a response to the GOP Congress that spent like mad as it was to Obama's $800 billion stimulus, that clearly hasn't worked. The Medicare drug benefit that Bush pushed will only increase the deficit since it is another unfunded entitlement program. What baffles me is why you can't even admit that JFK's and Clinton's tax cuts increased tax revenue? Given your hyperpartisan view of the world, I know you can't bring yourself to acknowledge Republican tax cuts increased revenue, but can't you give credit to Democratic presidents? The entire discussion was originally about whether tax cuts increase revenue (at the federal level), not about spending or deficits resulting from spending or that cutting property taxes at the state level hurt revenues. The numbers are on your left wing Tax Policy Center website, that is MY SOURCE, not Cato or Heritage. I beginning to wonder if you have some type of reading disorder. BTW, someone very close to me worked on the building of 7 WTC from start to finish. Did you know that the ConED substation for the entire WTC complex (bldg's 1-7) was in the sub-basement of 7 WTC? When towers 1 and 2 collapsed, where did the gas from the ruptured pipelines go? Don't know if you recall, but in 2005, a crazy doctor leveled his 4 story brick townhouse on the Upper east side, by disconnecting a single gas oven hose. care to re-evaluate the cause of the cllapse of #7 WTC?
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DennisQ | Dec 24, 2010, 04:03 PM EST
Bush cut taxes more than anybody, but he left behind a deficit so large it ought to forever silence people who say tax cuts are the one-size-fits-all approach to economic problems. We're still struggling with the aftermath of his wrong-headed policies. For the sake of argument we might agree that of all the things he tried, at least one of them accomplished its goal. But we don't know which one that is, nor will we.
It's not on me to prove you wrong, seamusmoore. There are so many different governmental responses to a troubled economy that singling out one approach as the one that always works is at best folk wisdom. You insist that data "proving" this hypothesis exists, but your sources turn out to be right wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and the Dato Institute.
Put it this way - if you're going to argue for the existence of little green men on Jupiter, produce a photograph! Don't just insist that photographs exist somewhere.
It's not on me to prove you wrong, seamusmoore. There are so many different governmental responses to a troubled economy that singling out one approach as the one that always works is at best folk wisdom. You insist that data "proving" this hypothesis exists, but your sources turn out to be right wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and the Dato Institute.
Put it this way - if you're going to argue for the existence of little green men on Jupiter, produce a photograph! Don't just insist that photographs exist somewhere.
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seamusmoore | Dec 24, 2010, 03:20 PM EST
DennisQ Are you EVER going to post the revenue numbers (from the LEFT LEANING Brookings Institution and Urban Institue sponsored Tax Policy Center)that support your claim that tax cuts don't increase government revenue. Numbers are objective and they consistently show that following the 5 tax cuts since the 1920's, revenue has gone up at least 5% a year within 3 to 7 years of the tax cuts'implementation. I previously gave you detailed instructions on how to pull up the revenue (spending is also there as well) numbers from the Tax Policy Center (which you previously stated was unbiased). Now GO PROVE ME WRONG with numbers, not partisan rhetoric, if you can (perhaps Santa can get the elves to crunch the numbers for you in case you scored 200 on the math portion of your SAT test).
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Monsoonman | Dec 24, 2010, 01:09 PM EST
Oh dennis! I don't have to point to anybody to back up the fact that the business climate and the economy of the country vastly improved under Ronald Reagan. I was there in business when the ultra liberal carter took control and prime interest rates went to 19%, there were fuel shortages and the Iranians kidnapped our embassy in Tehran and knew the numb nuts carter wouldn't do anything about it. The day Reagan took office the embassy staff was released and the business climate improved...fact.
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DennisQ | Dec 24, 2010, 01:06 PM EST
The name I was reaching for earlier is that of William A. Niskanen. Professor Niskanen, chairman of Reagan's Council of Economic Advisors and a primary architect of "Reaganomics," left government to become the chairman of conservative think tank, the Cato Institute.
While Niskanen was chairman, Cato gave high marks to Reaganomics and to supply side economics in particular. No surprise there, I suppose. In fact it's not the only time people have given high praise to Reagan for following their advice. George Will, acting as a television commentator on the Republican convention, applauded Reagan's speech without disclosing that Will himself had written that speech.
It's therefore unsurprising that seamusmoore cites the Cato Institute as an "objective" source for information on supply-side economics. He might even be right! If you want to know how a theory works, go to the guy who developed it. However, don't look to that person for objectivity. Good Lord no.
While Niskanen was chairman, Cato gave high marks to Reaganomics and to supply side economics in particular. No surprise there, I suppose. In fact it's not the only time people have given high praise to Reagan for following their advice. George Will, acting as a television commentator on the Republican convention, applauded Reagan's speech without disclosing that Will himself had written that speech.
It's therefore unsurprising that seamusmoore cites the Cato Institute as an "objective" source for information on supply-side economics. He might even be right! If you want to know how a theory works, go to the guy who developed it. However, don't look to that person for objectivity. Good Lord no.
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hancock | Dec 24, 2010, 12:27 PM EST
We pay enough taxes in this country already. If you don't like it move back to Co. Broke.
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Searlit | Dec 24, 2010, 12:14 PM EST
Look-out the Grinch (Mr. McConnell) almost stole Christmas!
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hancock | Dec 24, 2010, 10:34 AM EST
Dennis is back, you going to look for Santa tonight?
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DennisQ | Dec 24, 2010, 09:49 AM EST
You discredited yourself when the sources you provided turned out not to support your arguments, seamusmoore. When challenged, you went from a respectable, non-partisan source to two highly partisan sources. It's not surprising that the Cato Institute gives high marks to Reagan's economic policies - these were designed by the same guy who later headed the Cato Institute.
Your idea of support for your arguments is to link to sources who already agree with you. In most contexts, that's called timidity.
Your idea of support for your arguments is to link to sources who already agree with you. In most contexts, that's called timidity.
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seamusmoore | Dec 24, 2010, 08:47 AM EST
DennisQ still jumping back and forth between revenue and deficits? How about JFK cuts? Clearly, you are an IDEOLOGUE, further discussion is hopeless (then again, you are a 9/11 truther). I did notice you didn't address the actual tax revenue NUMBERS on the tax policy center website to support your point. BTW, want a good example of what happens when you raise tax rates? Herbert Hoover, A Republican, signed the Tax Act of 1932 (raising rates from 25% to 63%). That really boosted the economy, didn't it?
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casualMBA | Dec 24, 2010, 03:49 AM EST
Additionally, Ireland is the e.g. of "zombie" How?
Its heritage may be beyond trillions to many of its people, but America's trillion dollar challenges may not be analogous.
Krugman is right in this. Ireland's head is upon Europe's financial pike at the moment. He is not alone in being quite sure it will remain there; perhaps, until someone - hopefully, Irish Americans and their colleagues - will cut it down.
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casualMBA | Dec 24, 2010, 03:40 AM EST
Where is the "zombie" here?
Is it runaway spend liberals (without, apparently, a work ethic) curing everyone's (including the world's) problems? Is it the G.O.P. (or otherwise) financial conservatives' concept declaring "Take your lumps; Let Banks fail; It's a Free Market"? Is it a mother with a severly involved Down's syndrome, or autistic, kid, and no socially acceptable support system to provide needed services? Is it the concept of popping a morning after pill, or is it the concept of turning back the clock on the development of the M.A. pill?
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DennisQ | Dec 24, 2010, 12:33 AM EST
There aren't any facts - overwhelming or otherwise - to support the notion that cutting taxes increases government revenue. Reagan cut taxes in 1981 but increased them in subsequent years to avoid a deficit. Bush went him one better but cutting taxes and increasing government spending, while letting the deficit become colossal. "Deficits don't matter," said Cheney.
So-called conservatives think that there's a lot of support for the thesis that tax cuts stimulate the economy, but there isn't. Instead of supplying the proof that they claim is in great abundance, they merely refer you to other people who make the same claim, i.e., the Cato Foundation and the Heritage Foundation. They might as well refer you to Rush Limbaugh.
So-called conservatives borrow from actual faith the confidence that the ideas that they accept without evidence are nonetheless true. When you ask them to stand and deliver, they point to each other as the source of their evidence!
Incidentally, I still don't believe that Building Seven collapsed because it was hit by flying debris from the North Tower. This is another instance of an article of faith given to us to accept without evidence. A massive skyscraper doesn't just catch fire and burn like an old barn - you'd have to point to some other instance of that happening. And by the way, I don't owe you an alternate explanation.
So-called conservatives think that there's a lot of support for the thesis that tax cuts stimulate the economy, but there isn't. Instead of supplying the proof that they claim is in great abundance, they merely refer you to other people who make the same claim, i.e., the Cato Foundation and the Heritage Foundation. They might as well refer you to Rush Limbaugh.
So-called conservatives borrow from actual faith the confidence that the ideas that they accept without evidence are nonetheless true. When you ask them to stand and deliver, they point to each other as the source of their evidence!
Incidentally, I still don't believe that Building Seven collapsed because it was hit by flying debris from the North Tower. This is another instance of an article of faith given to us to accept without evidence. A massive skyscraper doesn't just catch fire and burn like an old barn - you'd have to point to some other instance of that happening. And by the way, I don't owe you an alternate explanation.
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