39 Comments

• crowsnest | Sep 17, 2011, 11:57 AM EDT

  WOW !!! WHY DON'T YOU TELL US HOW YOU REALLY FEEL CEOLAS7 -

• Towngate | Sep 16, 2011, 12:15 PM EDT

  Tiny point below: Ahern was Prime Minister known in Gaelic as "An Taoiseach" (pron: 'un tee-shock' ) - never President.

• ceolas7 | Sep 16, 2011, 08:51 AM EDT

  A complete snob? Well, my 100% Irish grandmother, who emigrated to the US in the 1930s, had the same opinion of many Irish people, and her opinion was based on the fact that they were their own worst enemy, and her predictions of what that kind of Irish person would do to Ireland has been extremely accurate, when you look at the state of the Irish nation today. What's more, my Irish grandmother, wasn't an elite, wasn't wealthy, but working class. She was Catholic, loved God, her family and admired JFK. As an adult, I've gone from admiring the Irish, to despising them. When I see how their politicians, like fat Bertie Ahern, crack jokes about trading people as little more than chattel, given what I know what people like my grandparents went through, and how the Irish themselves are so lacking in any kind of decency and moral outrage, given what should be a sense of history, sat in silence and refused to speak out against their then president Ahern.. it only confirmed to me that Irish ancestry is nothing to be proud of. My grandmother would have been spitting angry if she'd been alive to read his words. The Irish, who rationalized the slaughter of innocents, in aid of their desire for sovereignty gave away their freedom to the EU, all in the name of hatred, are damnable fools and only deserving of what they get. Jackie Kennedy wasn't looking down on poor people, she referred to wealthy, Irish Americans who stewed in their bitterness and hatred, which is a fool's game, and unhealthy. She wouldn't want that sick disease infecting her children. She knew from her own childhood that sort of thing destroys lives. It's not a personal strength. And given what her so grandchildren are like, Caroline's diseased daughters are a disgrace, they live as little more than prostitutes, irregardless of their wealth and privilege. Caroline herself is no better, she's an absolute disgrace herself.

• lonejourney1 | Sep 15, 2011, 05:28 PM EDT

  yea right daughter of Black Jack Bouvier notorious drunk, gambler (Jackie's mother divorced him because he gambled away the family money) and skirt chaser. Now that is what I call really highclass. When you come from trash like that you shouldn't be looking down your nose at anyone. I guess she was one of those people who think that money makes them better than everyone else. She was a sad housewife in a marriage with a man who slept around on her constantly. She had to pretend that she was better than everyone else or otherwise she would have to confront the fact that she was so plain and unintersting that she couldn't even keep her husbands interest. JFK had a GF when they married he only married Jackie because she fit what he need for his political ambitions. Nice thing to be a "prop" no wonder she did not like the Irish.

• dv727dv | Sep 15, 2011, 04:52 PM EDT

  Well, whether or not she is a "bad" person is one thing. What this bigoted snobbery demonstrates is (1)"Camelot" was and is a fraud, and (2) she was not any "iconic" person near worthy of the blind idolization heaped on her by trendy media and fools too blind to recognize faults. If those who rationalize this behavior continue to do so, they'd best be consistent and do so for others not named "Kennedy," and for others not as left-of-center as the Kennedys.

• Fastest | Sep 15, 2011, 01:58 PM EDT

  So what! For those old enough to remember the early 60's, racism was rampant. While racism exists today just as it did then, the cast of characters have changed, not the attitudes' themselves.

• Towngate | Sep 15, 2011, 01:08 PM EDT

  Niall: Don't be silly! How can an American be a snob? They've only just gotten used to wearing shoes! and as for this person barely above hawking and touting her sad ass-ets to the highest bidder! ...It is good these tapes are 'out' ... it might prevent yet more American 'Tin Gaaads' being created, and the truth about their feet of clay being known, so intelligent Americans can make up their own minds.

• Bailey2000 | Sep 15, 2011, 06:10 AM EDT

  Marrying into a big Irish Greek Jewish Russian or whatever family I am sure would bring out the groan in all of us. Lets not be too sensitive because she wasn't too sold on her mother in law. Not the first or the last. As for not rating LBJ or Martin Luther King....hey she was calling it like she saw it. We hear I have a dream and we forget that he was maybe a sleazeball too!

• firinne | Sep 15, 2011, 01:20 AM EDT

  I sincerely feel that for Niall and along with a few others here that they had watched this program with a predisposed set of prejudices, and that by locking onto a comment here and wee piece of bent history there, they now come across with an opinion of Jackie O as a snobbish French woman and that she hated the low class Irish that she felt surrounded her husband while he was in office. Let us all step back and take a deep breath for a moment. History defines Jackie as a cultured and talented woman who was a devoted and caring wife to her husband Jack Kennedy and their two children, which she raised as two very bright and fine human beings. At a relative young age, she was thrown into a high powered life as First Lady, and then made a widow horribly before millions of people around the world. JFK had designed and fostered the Civil Rights programs before he died and these were the programs the LBJ picked up and continued along with Martin Luther King jr. All of these men were human, and their sins were similar to those of many other men, both leaders and followers alike! The venom of some the comments here seems so out of place for good Irish folks. Slan

• Springfield9 | Sep 14, 2011, 11:10 PM EDT

  My, my, our very own Marie Antoinette. How gracious of her to take her nearly bankrupt tush to the Kennedy compound and offer to share her mindless glory. The railroader, James Hill, had an unassuming Irish born wife. She only built the Great Cathedral of st. Paul. (dowdy thing that she was).

• bunkerisland | Sep 14, 2011, 07:53 PM EDT

  Sounds like so much gossip not worthy of a read.

• Woodman | Sep 14, 2011, 07:43 PM EDT

  So Rev Martin Luther King was having orgies the same time he made his "I have a dream speech." This was recorded on audiotape by the FBI. And that did not put the Civil Rights movement in danger? But Jackie is bad for criticizing King. And all the people here including this Down character criticize Jackie but not King. That really takes the cake.

• AngelPrecious | Sep 14, 2011, 06:22 PM EDT

  @ggoldeyLOL, the French comment was funny! I have been wondering if the writers from IC, especially Niall, have been suffering from the same problem the past few days!

• oaklongan | Sep 14, 2011, 05:26 PM EDT

  Jackie Kennedy: exalted FROM WHAT? We're ALL mortals.

• ggoldey | Sep 14, 2011, 02:40 PM EDT

  Come on Niall...you couldn't have missed her swipe at the French!?!?!? Or are you sufferin' from the Irish 'persecution complex'. !! :)

• AngelPrecious | Sep 14, 2011, 02:10 PM EDT

  I just watched the special on Jackie Kennedy last night on TV. Niall seems to have picked out the very worst statements and put them together into something rather different than portrayed on the tapes. Jackie also giggled a bit when she made some of those comments. Actually after reading a bit about her in the past few days on this rag, I was prepared to dismiss her. However, Jackie came across as a good First Lady. Skipping the last half of the program was a mistake, nicgearailt!!! THAT was the best part!

• pttibgf | Sep 14, 2011, 01:38 PM EDT

  Jackie's mom was Janet Auchincloss...I'm sure she was worried Jackie might become an alcoholic considering that her father was one. What that meant in the 40s & 50s cannot be expressed...it had to be experienced. She was a product of her upbringing & the times & was a great success @ achieving who she was raised to become. RIP Jackie...we loved trying to be a tenth as wonderful.

• maryemoore | Sep 14, 2011, 01:14 PM EDT

  What I want to know is why Caroline Kennedy felt compelled to release these tapes? They certainly do not show her mother in a good light. So much of the content on the tapes is cringe-worthy. Jackie comes across as a snobby Stepford wife.

• nicgearailt | Sep 14, 2011, 12:43 PM EDT

  I guess it was honest...she knew that it would not be published while she was alive,so she would not have to answer any questions...I am not surprised..I am sure we all have opinions that we would never express outside family.There was a lot that was good about her...she made sure President Kennedy had a funeral like no one else..added all the little touches that were significant and memorable.Her husband was very likable She was a pretty smart mother and that is her legacy. I have high regard for Caroline.Bad things happened to John when his mother was not around.I found the tv program tedious...I skipped the last half I also believe that Maria Shriver will one day write of her family's feelings about Jackie O!!She should!!

• hyattsville | Sep 14, 2011, 12:36 PM EDT

  Well it was 1964, and she was only 34 and just widowed, cut her some slack. We’ve all made cringe-worthy diary entries at certain periods of our lives. And yes I’m sure that even you Niall have said and written certain things that you wish you could take back! It was brave of Caroline Kennedy to release the tapes knowing, I’m sure, that they would elicit much criticism and hysteria. IC is overly fixated on this reveal by the way. Surely there are other newsworthy items to report on!

• Suivness10 | Sep 14, 2011, 12:18 PM EDT

  Is anybody surprised?

• adrienrain | Sep 14, 2011, 12:16 PM EDT

  I agree with the judgment that she was human! We've got to stop thinking that some flawed human will lead us into the light and do it ourselves. But who could object to cooking Irish stew? After all, all you have to do is open a can of Dinty Moore's!

• adrienrain | Sep 14, 2011, 12:13 PM EDT

  Rose Kennedy was a very devout Catholic and would never have gotten a divorce no matter what. Adultery? That was not Joseph's biggest fault. He had Rosemary lobotomized and wouldn't let Rose see her. She also did not believe in birth control. When they decided not to have more children, they stopped sleeping together. They are the kind of people who might say, 'the law is hard, but it is the law.' They followed their beliefs quite rigidly - in his case, his will seems to have been his law, and in hers, it was her faith. But the children knew about their father's affairs and accepted that as normal. Marlene Dietrich told of being invited to the WH and being propositioned by Jack. She refused and left, but before she got away, he asked her if the reason she refused was because maybe she had slept with his dad............

• trgngsteroflove | Sep 14, 2011, 12:10 PM EDT

  First, you might try a little proofreading. Example:"She knew of course, but choose to bury it..." There seems to be a bit of confusion about the "Irish mafia." The Boston Irish mafia is a metaphor for a criminal organization. It is not the same as the political operatives that surrounded JFK. As for the book, it is likely that JKO (This may be the first use of initials as a contraction of her name) was just venting. She certainly wasn't a snob in public. She also developed a great friendship with Lyndon Johnson after her husband was assassinated. It is understandable that she would have some resentments of the Kennedys. They haven't exactly been the pinnacle of decency or fidelity. This is likely a book that will go nowehre. Who cares?

• Deidra47 | Sep 14, 2011, 12:02 PM EDT

  She was always a "snob". And for her to talk about the "affairs" King had when her own husband would "bed" any female that walked buy....that's rich, folks.

• erieshark | Sep 14, 2011, 11:36 AM EDT

  I have read endless articles and books on the Kennedy family and none of this comes as a surprise. Jackie tried to keep her children away from Ethel's unruly Irish brood. She and Rose did not have a warm relationship but she did have one with Joseph Kennedy who kept her in designer clothes. She has a mixed legacy - she is the widow of a slain President, she lost a baby, her two children were a credit to her mothering skills, but she went on to marry Aristotle Onassis in the grand tradition of women marrying for wealth. She did bring a cultural awareness to the White House (think of those dreadful Johnsons & Nixons), and was a preservationist. What she has to say is absoutely not surprising one bit.

• Porickseantuny | Sep 14, 2011, 11:35 AM EDT

  Reverend King said you should be judged by the content of your character. That's what Jackie did in his regard, but not Jack's. Could it be her hidden racism?

• MaryTheresa | Sep 14, 2011, 10:47 AM EDT

  Defending the Irish Mafia of Boston is lousy jounalism. My Uncle, a first generation Irish American Boston Police Detective, made sure they did not get near his two attractive sisters, and warned them to not go to their private parties. Jackie had every reason to dislike them. They were thugs plain and simple, and their disrespect for women was huge. You should be ashamed of yourself for defending them. And as for Rose. Yes she was a good woman, but just last week my 93 year old Boston Irish mother, said "how could she have remained married to Joe, as he flaunted his Hollywood Mistress to the world, as Rose went to church here in Boston. Jackie could not have been that much of a snob to have raised Caroline and John, 2 very caring and socially concerned individuals. YOU need a Reality check.

• edmundburke | Sep 14, 2011, 10:47 AM EDT

  Niall's article and these comments go quite a bit overboard on the notion that Jackie, as a "trophy wife" was "a woman of her times". Nonsense. The media has been too effective in selling the hogwash line that the "Feminist Movement" of the late 60's changed everything for women. The evolution of the culture as to the role of women had been changing dramatically since the early 20th century, and by Jackie's "Mad Men" era, there were plenty of women proclaiming independent thinking, building careers, and hardly conforming to the "little woman" model Jackie seemed to think was de rigueur (to use her preferred language) for married women. Indeed, she was well aware of liberated women of her time, like Clare Booth Luce (heaven forfend, a Republican!), whose departure from Jackie's even then antiquated notion of womanhood moved her to disparagingly suggest that they were simply lesbians. For all her sophistication, Jackie's insecurity in contrast to the confidence and independence of women like Luce, Rand, Helen Gurley Brown, de Beauvoir, and countless others prompted her to resort to the mentality of a street corner low life and dismiss them as homosexuals! Some class.

• cillowen | Sep 14, 2011, 10:42 AM EDT

  the mousy marlyn monroe voice speaks to the whore she was.

• Rebelforce | Sep 14, 2011, 10:38 AM EDT

  I taped but haven't yet watched the program about the hidden Jackie interviews so I will reserve judgement on this, but from what I've heard her personal conclusion that the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King was a "phony" stemmed from what she had heard about him making jokes about her husband's funeral and his sexual dalliances with other women.

• jamieLM | Sep 14, 2011, 10:22 AM EDT

  Jackie's mother Janet was a role model for snobbishness and raised her daughters to marry money, like she did. Janet was the ultimate social-climber. Socially and financially, the Irish Lees were not in the same league as the more affluent French Bouviers. Janet "married up" socially and financially when she married Jack Bouvier. By 1941, Jackie's father was almost broke, so financially desperate newly-divorced Janet married the very RICH REP WASP, Hugh Auchincloss, Jr., in 1942 when Jackie was 13. Another giant step up the financial and social ladder. Jackie favored and ADORED her (French) father and had a very tense relationship with her (Irish) mother - one tough cookie - who was often abusive to Jackie. It helps to explain Jackie's love for all things French and her belief in the superiority of French culture. According to her 1st cousin, John Davis, Jackie's whispery voice was a "put-on" because she thought it made her sound more sophisticated and cultured than everyone else. Jackie was a social and financial snob, thanks to "Mummy." Jackie married Jack for his money, even dumping her fiancee, John Husted, when Janet dug into Husted's finances and decided Husted didn't have enough money for Jackie. Janet approved of JFK financially, but thought the Auchinclosses were head-and-shoulders above the socially inferior Kennedys. Janet made sure that Jackie knew how she and Hugh felt about "those Kennedys," according to Jackie. For insight into the dynamics of the families of JFK & Jackie, "Jack and Jackie" by Christopher Andersen is an interesting and insightful read.

• stephendoyle | Sep 14, 2011, 10:07 AM EDT

  The French always have a "holier than thou" attitude. Anyways, who cares. That is ancient history......

• catherineu | Sep 14, 2011, 10:01 AM EDT

  There are three sides to every story. Yours, theirs, and the truth. Many folks come across as "snobs", so what? She was human. She had her likes and her dislikes just as many do. I would not say she did not like Catholics--she most likely just did not care for the Catholics who wear their Catholicism on their sleeves. This holds true in any religion. There are also a great many Francophiles among us. No big deal. She was, and will always remain, an iconic woman.

• feliciamaisey | Sep 14, 2011, 10:00 AM EDT

  I suppose it is easy to point out the presumed ramblings of a "bitter trophy wife" as snobbery, but she lived the life, walked the walk and talked the talk, and to her credit she, by all outward appearances was class personified, a style icon, and a human being who made the White House a home, preserving relics of every past presidency and making them a part of the historical decor of the house itself. I am not sure being honest as it pertains to one's emotional self is really snobbish, but rather it shows she was her own person, who liked what she liked and also respected her husband and extended family enough to also be there and play the role they expected of her.

• donal1951 | Sep 14, 2011, 09:58 AM EDT

  I suspect Jack Kennedy, whom I continue to respect as a president, had more affairs that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ever thought of having. Let he, or she, who is without sin cast the first stone.

• CitizenWhy | Sep 14, 2011, 09:55 AM EDT

  Some of this contradicts what you have said in other articles. I knew people of a a lesser class to whom she was courteous and kind. Yes, she did value a liberal arts education and French intellectuals were exciting in the 50s, 60s. I thank God my high school religious teacher, for instance, a French Communist (card carrying) priest, gave us a fascinating course on the history of the church from a Marxist point of view. Daft in some ways, insightful in other ways, it was not boring.

• hollabackgurl | Sep 14, 2011, 09:54 AM EDT

  It's probably safe to say that much of that animus was driven by her difficult relationship with the Kennedy family (Rose, Ted etc). She was a trophy wife and a woman of her era and at sea among that clan. Doesn't mean she was a bad person, just a bad fit.

• brokerguy | Sep 14, 2011, 09:49 AM EDT

  Wow. Bitter much?