53 Comments

• seamus60 | Jul 27, 2012, 01:55 PM EDT

  See Martin and Peter have released their shared vision for the way forward in a statement released after Stornmont went into summer recession, even though it was to be put before the house for discussion and debate. lol

• seamus60 | Jul 20, 2012, 09:38 PM EDT

  No wonder people get confused when such local issues get compared to others. Just educate Orange men to stop marching through area`s where they are likely to cause offence.

• seanomelb | Jul 19, 2012, 06:00 PM EDT

  Deirdre was killed by Naoise he thought she was a swan I think she's a quacking duck with a brain to suit

• seanomelb | Jul 17, 2012, 08:14 PM EDT

  Remember old schon was a serving member of the of the Brit army in the north shooting plastic bullets at children from his armoured car. BTW I never claimed OO had no right to march and I care less which lodge they are members of it's as irrelevant as your uneducated bull. BTW how many plastic rounds did you fire on Orange rioters.The answer to that is none because it was not allowed,so much for the BA terrorists(like you) protecting the nationalists community. Go post on your usual sites,The UVF or the BNP newsletters.AS for been a sectarian I married in the presbyterian church you fool.

• michaelidaho | Jul 17, 2012, 04:28 PM EDT

  Barneyjo, I understand where you are coming from now and I agree with you. However, I was not making broadstrokes about Orangeism. I was referring to a specific group of them videotaped this past July 12, 2012 in Ardoyne. @Schon-It does not really matter who these group of clowns are. If they have be given the permission to parade, they should not be permitted to bellow out low class, vile sectarian chants in front of a place of worship. As for Wacko (sic), are you suggesting that the US government regularly engages in sectarian and violent acts against religious minorities in the USA?

• Schon | Jul 17, 2012, 04:10 PM EDT

  barneyjo. Agh that was for my rabidly sectarian nemesis seanomelb to discover and correct me about. He tries, but, between you and me, he's not that clever. Possibility is he wouldn't have come up with you reply. Anywho... you are quite correct; some could have members of other lodges as you say. Now, come on seanomelb. You really need to pay attention!

• barneyjo | Jul 17, 2012, 03:45 PM EDT

  @schon - point taken, however its probably too much of an assumption to make that that at least some of the band members werent also members of Lodges elsewhere in their own right.

• Schon | Jul 17, 2012, 03:41 PM EDT

  Hi seanomelb me ol' mate. And there's me thinking that Martin was one of yous. He's a fair brave un, our Martin. He looks pleased as punch too. Great day for Ireland to see one of the murdering republican feckers show his true colours. He probably was a nark all the long, passing info to the Brits. He'll be Sir Martin or even Lord Martin shortly along with the bearded worder, Adams. Imagine our on Lord Martin and Gerry of Her Majesties' Own Sinn Fein Republican Volunteer Force. barmeyjo has the right line, if you want a masscecre, subcontract to the Yanks or the Froggies. They're better at it than the Brits. Oh, but just to make you feel good seanomelb ol' boy, your murdering republican heros aren't bad at slaughter... as long as its proddies, Brits and/or defenceless innocent civilians to kill. Luv & Kisses

• Schon | Jul 17, 2012, 03:39 PM EDT

  barneyjo, don't forget the 1993 Wacko slaughter carried out by ATF, FBI and Army were 74 people were murdered. Also, the Orange men weren't walking in circles, they were standing around waiting for the parade to move on. The people walking in circles was the band and they weren't members of the Orange Order.

• barneyjo | Jul 17, 2012, 03:29 PM EDT

  @michaelidaho - Firstly, I would reject the idea that my comments are tantamount to a "tirade". I like to think of them as conidered observations on your initial viewpoint on the Orangemen in Belfast; ie"However, let us not be too complacent that everybody in NI has bought into this process. Just look at the video of the Orangeman, marching in a circle several times in front of a Catholic Church belting out sectarian songs just two days ago" and subsequent comments. For the record, I find the behaviour of some, though not all sections of Orangism to be both objectionable and reprehensible. I am equally unimpressed by comments and viewpoints from posters, who it has to be said, in the main are not native Irish, nor do they live on the island of Ireland. In many cases, with one ill-informed broad brush stroke they are content in painting a sector of Irish society of whatever hue as having an exclusivity in the role of perpetrators of injustice, partial treatment or offence. There are many individual instances where this has been shown to have been undoubtedly true; but the attempts to portray Orangeism as a singular negative entitity within the historical narrative of Irish history, is both simplistic, and a distortion of reality. Put simply, the peace process would not be working now, if Orangeism had not bought into it. My challenges to Warrenpoint100 also should give you very clear indication that there is also a rump of Irish Nationalism that is in denial about the direction Ireland has now taken, on the back of multiple plebicites over the last 15 years.

• michaelidaho | Jul 17, 2012, 01:33 PM EDT

  Barneyjo, Your original comparison was Koran burnings to Orange Order marches. I then made the point that many American Muslims and Vietnamese Americans have fled the oppressive regimes of their birth, immigrated to and have remained in the USA and are quite satisfied with life here. You have since been on a tirade about isolated massacres and human rights abuses perpetrated by the US military going back to 1890. I have no idea how this relates to your assertion that minority groups in the USA and NI are treated with the same degree of intolerance. If you know of any racial, religious or ethnic groups in 2012 living in the USA that are frequently victims of the same degree of intolerance by groups in NI (e.g. Orange Order chapters parading in front of Catholic Churches chanting sectarian songs while the police force does nothing), then I would like to you to give me an example. By the way, I have no wish to defend every aspect of American foreign policy, and like you, I could probably come up with dozens of examples of other atrocities committed by the US or any other country for that matter.

• barneyjo | Jul 17, 2012, 03:50 AM EDT

  @michaelidaho - The wounded knee massacre occurred in the USA and typifies the concept of state sponsored terror perfectly. As do My Lai and Guantanamo also. my point is that there is an inherent danger in identifying the "splinter in the eye" of another (in this case the Orangemen) while ignoring the mote in your own (all that was and is done in the name of the United States of America and its peoples)

• seanomelb | Jul 16, 2012, 11:15 PM EDT

  good retort Seamus.

• michaelidaho | Jul 16, 2012, 09:54 PM EDT

  barneyjo, Your facts do little to support your argument. If the Vietnamese and Arabs have found it to be so oppressive and intolerant in the United States, then why have they been so desperate to flee their countries and remain in the USA. I have known several Vietnamese and many Arabs over the years, and I can tell you they are quite happy in the USA. Finally, I do not know of any American groups chanting to the Vietnamese or Native Americans, "The war is over, so why don't you go home."

• seamus60 | Jul 16, 2012, 09:07 PM EDT

  Seano. The chicken took itself off to Co, Louth and stood in elections.

• seanomelb | Jul 16, 2012, 08:19 PM EDT

  The eggs come from Belfast therefore Sinn Fein have failed the nationalists in the 6 counties.Whatever happened to the chicken.LOL

• barneyjo | Jul 16, 2012, 04:27 PM EDT

  @michaelidaho - I couldnt agree more. The words "Wounded Knee" "My Lai" and "Guantanamo Bay" spring to mind!!

• barneyjo | Jul 16, 2012, 03:35 PM EDT

  @warrenpoint100 - me a bully?? Not at all. I merely picked up on your comment "we will have to accept being blockaded in our own homes while triumphant loyalists march and riot in our streets to the tune of the british piper" I infer from your post name that you are from Warrenpoint, county Down; a lovely seaside town just across Carlingford Lough from Omeath. As a child I spent many a summers day there, long ago. And it is near to Rostrevor; a centre of culture, Irish Culture in the foothills of the Mournes, and of course the former home of the last Uachtarán na hÉireann, Mary McAleese and her family. The only nod to "Imperialism" I am aware of is the granite obelisk dedicated to Major General Robert Ross, a soldier of the anglo/american war of 1812. I am acquainted with members of both communities in the area, who would make frequent reference to the fact that community relations have always been good. Which brings me back to my original question which I note you chose not to answer; how often have you personally been barricaded in your home in Warrenpoint ( if indeed you live there) for any reason. I would have good cause to believe it would have been seldom :)

• michaelidaho | Jul 16, 2012, 01:53 PM EDT

  barneyjo- Of course there is intolerance in every nation and social group. It has been like that since the beginning of time. However, there is such a thing as degrees of intolerance. For example, a low life making racial slurs to his racist buddies at the local tavern is displaying intolerance. However, if the police do nothing about sectarian chants in a legally sanctioned march that is more dangerous form of intolerance. To take it a step further, if a government rounds up citizens of a particular racial or religious groups and starts executing them, then that is an example of the most extreme form of intolerance.

• sirpeter | Jul 16, 2012, 12:44 PM EDT

  seamus60.lol.Ah now I can understand the SF`er completely.He gets up in the morning with a savage hangover after a Sinn Fein junket.Nineteen pints in him and they all singing their way to a United Ireland.Great night out with Gerry and the lads.And then he sits down bleary-eyed to his two boiled eggs only to be faced with a Union Jack staring him in the face.~~Feckin' Brits still here he mutters.I'll type a letter says he.Plenty free Ink cartridges from the Dáil.lolol

• IrelandNorth | Jul 16, 2012, 06:47 AM EDT

  In an era of all pervasive audio-visualism, playing sectarian tunes outside NI Catholic Churches isn't good PR. I imagine some of that grant money the OO got from both HM Govt/EU hasn't made it's way down to the bottom from the corpulent presbyters of GOLI. Contemporary politics in NI like elsewhere is scripted/screen-played by civil servants and rehearsed/stage managed by PR Cos - what you might call the Hollywood School of Affectative Sincerity. The EU is all about convergence. HM Govt want an All-Ireland Final-isation to save STG£10b p/a to preserve slush funds of the Council-of-Ten. An Ireland head-locked in a UK hasn't worked - isn't working - ergo probably never will! The return of the prodigal Republic to the Commonwealth family fold might just be the quasi-constitutional equidistance needed to persuade unionists/£oyalists to cut the constitutional umbilical cord and co-manage Ireland Inc. Will pragmatism prevail?

• warrenpoint00 | Jul 15, 2012, 11:20 PM EDT

  Barneyjoe you a Sinn Fein bully now by any chance. Me I consider myself an Irish nationalist not blockaded but barricaded in my own country by elements of a foreign regime intent on removing MY nations culture and historical relevance from me while my fellow country men indulge in a handshaking appeasement for votes just to bolster their own failures.Not in the name of our murdered generations shall the Irish allow it to happen.Never, Never, Never.

• seamus60 | Jul 15, 2012, 09:26 PM EDT

  Sirpeter. I have only been inside the biggest shopping mall in Derry once. The reason being my feet are nearly as big as my mouth lol, so I prefer to buy my shoes at Clarks, Which is located there. Unlike the SF`er who recently complained in one of his articles about the egg box`s in one of the multi-national supermarkets he uses had a unionjack on them. He further complained that the Supermarket should be using local produce. Well EGG all over his face when they replied that the eggs actually came from a farm 12 miles outside Belfast and were local produce, as with lots of other products. To crown it off his article slating the Supermarket appeared right next to the weekly add from a small local family business who sell locally produced eggs without any flag on the box. Only in Ireland.

• seamus60 | Jul 15, 2012, 09:08 PM EDT

  sir peter. Yet again you have danced round my points.Still no one comes up with any answers on what Martin and Co have delivered since the GFA. As for your last post. I have not been lacking in stating that the poor Protestant on the Shankall has more in common with the poor Catholic on the Falls than either have with the well off of either religion up the Malone Road.Very little of the Ruling by Fooling accurrs in the later.When I mention West Belfast, I mean all of it. The religious discrimination I referred to in my last post was against a Protestant man. Conor Murphy SF has already been found guilty by the Fair Employment Commission in the case. Martin Mc Guinness has taken exception to the decision and even asked where this Commission get their mandate. He has been using their decisions to his benefit for 20 years and all of a sudden they like the N.I. Housing executive are on the firing line for applying the fairness SF should be endorsing as part of their envisage of an Ireland of equals regardless. Gerry Adams has said he wants to meet the Orange. Only because the people of N.Belfast refused to be intimidated by his partys henchmen (of which regretfully, once apon a time I was one) into allowing the Orange to stamp all over them. What a cheek SF had, even believing they could do the same as in the past to these people only weeks after being caught red handed practicing Gerry Mandering on them. Too late Gerry and SF. You have exposed yourself to the extreme of people now taking to the streets in protest at your 40 year old Brit agenda.

• barneyjo | Jul 15, 2012, 09:01 PM EDT

  @michaelidaho - mine is a point about intolerance and the fact that it is not limited by geography, creed or class. And it is prevalent in many countries across the world, including Ireland !!

• michaelidaho | Jul 15, 2012, 06:44 PM EDT

  Barneyjo- You seem to be suggesting that Catholics in NI are treated fairly well and no worse than Muslims in the USA. A very absurd comparison. Please clarify.

• barneyjo | Jul 15, 2012, 03:25 PM EDT

  @warrenpoint100 - and just when was the last time you were blockaded in your own home in Warrenpoint, exactly :)?

• warrenpoint00 | Jul 15, 2012, 02:38 PM EDT

  Simply put ..in their quest to gain middle ground and SDLP votes Sinn Fein has abandoned their grass roots and the wider republican community.As Seamus60 states Sinn Fein and their hench men all across the six counties did try unsucessfully to bully the republican community in to accepting their terms of the GFA.It is not working.We could all have voted for the SDLP if this was the case.What we do need now is an Irish republican party for all Irish republicans and until that happens we will have to accept being blockaded in our own homes while triumphant loyalists march and riot in our streets to the tune of the british piper.

• sirpeter | Jul 15, 2012, 12:09 PM EDT

  seamus60.I can't deal with everything you say in your comments in detail all at once.But you do say since the GFA there is nothing of substance for the Nationalist population.I get the impression you are talking about low income Nationalists.It appears to me that you are saying Sinn Fein is not delivering for Nationalists and everything is as it was before the GRA.What about low income Unionists?Don't you care about them??This apartheid way of thinking is the reason a bigger percentage of the Nationalist population is less well off than their Unionist counterparts.The Unionists are still the ones with the bigger share of the economic power in NI and they are just like you.Their politicians deliver more because Protestants always had a disproportional amount of wealth and I would imagine that's the reason all Unionists appear to be doing better.Whites are still doing disproportionately better in South Africa.The fact is money makes money and no matter who is in power poor people still remain poor.So make sure you buy your goods and services from Catholic owned businesses even if it costs a bit more to readdress the balance.Low income families should always try to keep the money in their local community.Rich people look after their own don't they?

• barneyjo | Jul 15, 2012, 09:25 AM EDT

  @michaelidaho - any "Koran burnings" in your neck of the woods recently??

• seamus60 | Jul 14, 2012, 07:54 PM EDT

  Micheal. You only had to look at what way the armed millitia were facing their guns as the protesting Nationalists were being attacked by loyalists.

• seamus60 | Jul 14, 2012, 07:46 PM EDT

  Sirpeter. Give Martin a chance. Yet no one on here will pony up to any of his acheivements since the GFA. Could that be because there are none of substance to the Nationalist population. Don`t say peace cause thats being played to death. The people in North Belfast have had enough, they are now enduring gerry mandering to accompany the brethern marching all over them. 2 years ago Gerry Kelly and Co were there in mass with their paid henchmen in blue bibs, bullying locals who had the bare faced cheek to protest against blatant secrarianism. Kelly stood there on thursday like a wasted force with thousands telling to get lost. Ye still havent told me what you think SF should be doing against abuse of human rights in the North. Or any of their ministers carrying out the same abuses. The SF mayor of Derry had his house raided by his brit recognised millitia on fri morn. The party came out with a no holes barred DEMAND for an explanation. Such demands are not afforded as representation to those Nationalists who don`t tow the party line anymore. Kevin Campbell (Derry SF Mayor) when asked a few weeks back about a spate of ongoing house raids at the bottom of his street simply replied to the journalist that the police were only doing their job. Surely they were only doing their job at his home. An Ireland of equals. LOL

• seamus60 | Jul 14, 2012, 07:27 PM EDT

  Seano. Peter King also supported the IRA struggle. He abuses human rights on a dailly basis whilst Gerry and Martin remain his good friends. Mandello ensured a truth commission, something Martin and the brits shy away from. Should it not be high on the wish list ?.Odysseus221 the same would move us forward to an ideal position in which the historians could get their teeth into it for once and for all.

• Odysseus221 | Jul 14, 2012, 10:13 AM EDT

  It is about time the Irish left the past to historians. As a Greek whose ancestors left Smyrna in a hurry, one has to move on and not hold onto hostilities and notions of the past. It ruins the soul.

• michaelidaho | Jul 14, 2012, 09:31 AM EDT

  Yes, there has been a lot of progress in Northern Ireland and that is good to see. However, let us not be too complacent that everybody in NI has bought into this process. Just look at the video of the Orangeman, marching in a circle several times in front of a Catholic Church belting out sectarian songs just two days ago. I do not think this is what Gerry Adams meant, when appealing for calm before this July 12 he said, "Let the Unionists have their day." See you tube video: "Catholic Threatened as he watches an Orange Order Parade, New Lodge Area, 12th July 2012."

• enochsirishpub | Jul 13, 2012, 10:46 PM EDT

  32!

• sirpeter | Jul 13, 2012, 10:08 PM EDT

  seamus60.Maybe you should give Martin a chance?These handshakes send out a message from the top down.If he was prone to drown in his own importance he's have drowned a long time ago.I think he is doing alright.Look at that head in the pic.He's a guy with a long term plan and he knows it's working.

• sirpeter | Jul 13, 2012, 09:37 PM EDT

  @TomSwinford.That's a good post.Nice balance to it.

• brianmack | Jul 13, 2012, 08:50 PM EDT

  Great article and thanks Niall for enhancing the most miraculous events of my time, reconciliation in Ireland.

• seanomelb | Jul 13, 2012, 07:58 PM EDT

  Seamus Mandela supported the IRA campaign when he was conducting his own armed insurrection in S.A. Maybe you're right about McGuinness,time will tell.

• seamus60 | Jul 13, 2012, 06:54 PM EDT

  bushmanirish The brits know most of Martins dirty secrets. Haven`t they issued Immunity from prosedcution certs for a few. Seano Martin has long given up on the idea of Uniting Ireland. He is drowning in his own importance,the one that Britian and America have bestowed on him. The man even believes he`s on par with Mandello.

• seanomelb | Jul 13, 2012, 05:58 PM EDT

  Stopping the marches will probably never happen but extracting the triumphalism from the marches is a must. It's a hard pill to swallow to see McGuinness and co. shake hands with the royals.How do we move on to a united Ireland unless we are inclusive and respect other beliefs. The GFA was not a panacea for northern nationalists and more needs to be done and inclusiveness includes the acceptance of all nationalists.Unification is the only way forward.

• bushmanirish | Jul 13, 2012, 05:54 PM EDT

  Let us hope Mr. McGuinness never confides his particular secrets to Boston College.

• aloistmartin | Jul 13, 2012, 05:02 PM EDT

  Is Mr. McGuinness buying Time, or has our faithful old friend developed a taste for English Tea`s and Pudding @?..!

• seamus60 | Jul 13, 2012, 04:15 PM EDT

  Congratulations Niall. Martin must have been hard pushed answering all of your awkward questions. lol

• seamus60 | Jul 13, 2012, 04:11 PM EDT

  Its great that Martin can go into your office and make such statements. He wouldn`t do them in the Bogside or Ardoyne. Tom Swindford, what do you think of gerrymandering at the expence of Nationalists as a great leap forward ????? Martin has lost touch with reality. Whilst he is away mixing with the rich. the home of a SF mayor is being raided by the brit millitia in Derry. Only this morning the party are demanding an explanation from their brit millitia as to why this SF councillor (Mayor) house is targetted. They have remained silent on all the other house raids in the same area. The same Mayor when asked recently about these raids replied that the police were only doing their job. Surely thats all they were doing in his house last night.

• cavan61 | Jul 13, 2012, 03:57 PM EDT

  Right on, Martin. It hasn't been easy, but old enemies can do it if they treat the other side as human beings. There's a long way to go, but relations between Ireland and England are the best they've been since 1169. (And that must really piss off the Orange marchers.)

• Padraig8 | Jul 13, 2012, 01:15 PM EDT

  It is not just appearances its true,if the prods would STOP the marches i would believe they were sincere in wanting peace however Martin you might not want to hold your breath for peace in our time (tiocfaidh ar la)

• warrenpoint00 | Jul 13, 2012, 01:09 PM EDT

  They placed an Irish flag, a gaa jersey and a derogatory message about the victims of bloody Sunday on top of their bonfire and Martin shakes the hand of these foreign subjects that desecrate every thing we nationalists love about our country.These foreign people do not want to participate in the future of our country they should be advised to return to where they came from

• stephendoyle | Jul 13, 2012, 12:27 PM EDT

  It appears it's the IRA and the Nationalists that are making all the peace moves and concessions. Just today I read of the Oranges marcing again to stir up the Catholic areas. Enough with the marches already. Don't people have better things to do than dress up in funny suits and go marching to remember something hundreds of years ago???

• carrickcourt | Jul 13, 2012, 12:04 PM EDT

  Now has he every shacked the hand of my distant cousin Lord Maginnis?

• clevelander | Jul 13, 2012, 10:51 AM EDT

  Just ask the people from Ardoyne how the "communities working together"? Another show of force and intimidation from the Orange bands banging drums in front of Catholic Churches. Groups of Orange Order men dressed in there little outfits attacking men and women with cameras trying to show the world how far back in time these people are. Ya things are great. Thanks Martin/Gerry and the lot. For nothing. I see no change here. Keep dreaming.

• clevelander | Jul 13, 2012, 09:48 AM EDT

  It is truly heartening to see these steps, both large and small, being taken by both sides to heal the wounds of centuries. I am impressed with the efforts of Martin McGuinness who is proving himself to be more of a statesman than I ever thought he could be. I happily give credit where credit is due. I detest the primitive triumphalism still being practiced by many in the Orange Order - but the Order too is changing in the face of an overwhelming desire by both traditions to live together in peace. Looking ahead to the 1916 commemorative celebrations, I hope that we will be wise enough not to overdo it - there is far too much at stake. I expect that the government is aware of this but for a small few this will be a time for mischief, a time to rekindle old hatreds. Let us hope they fail.