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Home Page > Blogs > News blogs > People and Politics > The end of liberalism in religion predicted by Ross Douthat in NY Times -- Says Catholicism will prevail because of sticking with the old ways

People and Politics by Patrick Roberts

The end of liberalism in religion predicted by Ross Douthat in NY Times -- Says Catholicism will prevail because of sticking with the old ways

Posted on Monday, July 16, 2012 at 09:19 AM

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A parishioner praying

Liberal religions have collapsed despite the best efforts of liberal pastors and administrators to save them, says Ross Douthat in his New York Times column on Sunday.

Douthat says it is perfectly understandable that conservatives in the Catholic Church demand adherence to the old laws when they see how devastated liberal religions are in the past decade.

His argument appears to be that the liberal way has not worked and that on balance, the conservative approach of Pope Benedict and John Paul before him has worked better.

Douthat focused on the Episcopal Church, which has allowed gay pastors, gay marriage, and thrown itself open to many social movements.

“As a result, today the Episcopal Church looks roughly how Roman Catholicism would look if Pope Benedict XVI suddenly adopted every reform ever urged on the Vatican by liberal pundits and theologians.

“It still has priests and bishops, altars and stained-glass windows. But it is flexible to the point of indifference on dogma, friendly to sexual liberation in almost every form, willing to blend Christianity with other faiths, and eager to downplay theology entirely in favor of secular political causes.” Douthat writes.

The result? The church has lost a quarter of its followers and the numbers continue to go south.

Similar congregations such as liberal Methodists and others have suffered the same decline he says.

The information would seem to indicate to Douthat that the Vatican knows a thing or two about church attendance and keeping its vital core intact.

But I doubt if Douthat has been to Ireland, where the collapse of the Catholic faith has become very evident as churchgoers desert in droves because of the church sex scandals.

I’m not even sure he has taken a close look inside American Catholic churches lately where the massive decline in vocations and the continuing pedophile scandals there have also done great damage.

Douthat is a convert to Catholicism which may explain his fervor for the religion more than others.

He is likely also obscuring the fact that much of the Catholic Church growth in recent years has been from Hispanic immigrants, even as many whites are leaving,

However, I’d say a better headline would have been “Can Christianity be saved” rather than “Can Liberal Christianity be saved”

When it comes to religion, left and right are both losing ground in our ever more secular world and they are likely to suffer together rather than one side or the other gain the upper hand.

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eiriamach | Oct 09, 2012, 01:27 PM EDT

@Seanmor, Jesus was quoting from Genesis and opposing DIVORCE when he said, "at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ ... ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’" He was certainly not commenting on the genders of sexual partners! In Genesis, where we first read these words, it's clear that Adam and Eve have NO "father and mother" except their Creator, so the words must refer, appropriately for a Creation story, to the succession of generations, one after another, and to each generating anew (husband and wife become "one flesh" in their children). You abuse the bible when you quote it to support exclusion of gays and lesbians from any institution. Christ gave no judgment on sexual orientation, and I commend that approach to you.

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Seanmor | Sep 20, 2012, 08:43 PM EDT

If R.C. prelates were to emprace homosexuals,figuratively and physically, it would cause a huge increase in addendence at mass and other services. Apparently many, if not all, bishops and cardinals are aware that Jesus Christ said, " man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife". The Redeemer never suggested that a man should cleave to his same-sex partner.

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sparticusnorth | Jul 28, 2012, 06:48 PM EDT

catholicabusesurvivorsni------come to ireland and see the collapse of the paedophile church of rome , a manmade unscriptural money making scam that the vast mjority of catholics have had their eyes opened to, the devils in dog collars will never be trusted again, christ offers true salvation not a life of must do that leads to destruction.

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seanomelb | Jul 19, 2012, 12:19 AM EDT

Schon is a know anti Catholic and a former serving soldier of her majesty stationed in Belfast.Maybe he should look at the number of Anglicans defecting to the Catholic church and there declining adherents.His narrow anti catholic views precludes him from from objectively looking at the protestant churches. His view of other religions is flawed and without merit.

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WoundedKnee | Jul 18, 2012, 10:32 AM EDT

mairint: Your point about the toxic effect of "Airport hanger style churches" is an interesting one. Both in Ireland and here in the US, the Catholic churches that have been built in the past few decades are invariably ugly and do not uplift in the way the old architecture did. I am not saying they are responsible for the betrayal by some priests, laity and religious, but maybe they are symptomatic of something deeper?

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WoundedKnee | Jul 18, 2012, 10:26 AM EDT

SCHON: "The only world religion that is in decline is the Catholic religion". It might be a good idea to know something about a topic before posting on it, Schon. In this case, your claim that Catholicism is in decline is flat out wrong, based on any world estimate of numbers of Catholics. Or maybe you think African Catholics don't deserve to be counted?

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WoundedKnee | Jul 18, 2012, 10:23 AM EDT

rpbrown: "the number of people who don't go to church at all but say they are Christian". Oh, you mean like the number of people who enjoy a regular Big Mac or Chicken McNuggets and say they're vegetarian?

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rpbrown | Jul 18, 2012, 02:09 AM EDT

I think he hastily deduces what is happening in the statistics. There are many other factors at play here than some simplistic liberal vs. conservative comparison. If Douthat is correct however that conservative christianity will fare better than liberal Christianity, I would say it is because conservative Christianity and Catholicism is more fear based so those who follow it will feel the need to be more involved in the church. With the liberals, they may feel a loyalty to Christianity, but experience no "or else you go to hell" fear if they don't go to church, thus their numbers decline. A more accurate assessment of liberal vs. conservative is the number of people who don't go to church at all but say they are Christian....those people are likely to be liberal and I do think their numbers are growing.

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Schon | Jul 17, 2012, 10:51 PM EDT

The only world religion that is in decline is the Catholic religion, both Roman and non Roman. Buddhism, Muslim and Hinduism are all on the rise. Main reason for the fall in Christianity has been the education, in particular secular education of the masses. This has had the effect of proving citizens with the ability to reason and identify contradictions that conflate religious belief. As long as the Roman Church retains the reins of education it will survive as it has over the last 1700 or so years. In the past it has not been known for its liberalism and I suspect that the future will will prove Douthat correct.

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AlunPalmer | Jul 17, 2012, 05:34 PM EDT

The fastest way to ensure the collapse of the church is to decry liberal views. That's fine by me. It's a miracle they didn't go under years ago.

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snakehips | Jul 17, 2012, 03:04 PM EDT

The view of people like Douthatis a fantasy of what they would like to see. In the next 20 years most of the Catholics who attend Mass will be dead and the remainder will be those who can't walk and chew gum at the same time because they are waiting for directions from the immoral bastards who run the roman church. Our Lord is probably so ashamed of the roman church that rapes and pillages while telling everyone else who to sleep with and how to live. The World is so much smarter than this archaic house of perversion.

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eiriamach | Jul 17, 2012, 12:19 PM EDT

Where is the usual flood of comments about how anti-Catholic the NY Times is? Thunderous outcries against the NY Times erupt from IC comment boxes whenever a Times reporter dares to write the latest episode in the never-ending RC sexual abuse scandals. The usual complaints about the "usual" Times bias are missing here, but not to worry, they will return as soon as another court convicts another pedophile priest and Ross Douhat's speculations are forgotten in the Times' reporting of "biased" facts.

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mairint | Jul 17, 2012, 09:47 AM EDT

Liberalism has been loosing its grip on the Catholic Church for some time. It, like most modern fads, has grown out of fashion. Airport hanger style churches are shabby and old fashioned too. Classical old churches and the return to classical building enable more spiritual devotion. Douthat's observations are correct. Here in Australia the 'Mass of all time' in Latin grows steadily more popular as younger people find its satisfying depth. Likewise in my previous parish in Canada. Deo Gratias.

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mairint | Jul 17, 2012, 09:31 AM EDT

Where did my comment go??

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Nicoletta | Jul 17, 2012, 08:32 AM EDT

Douhart is right. My traditional parish is in the US Midwest. Daily Mass attendance is high with Latin Mass every morning. There are many very large families, some of whom home-school, thus, the church is packed with children. Lots of young adults, firm in their faith too and many vocations to religious life. Deo Gratias!

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