57 Comments

• FallsRNat | Dec 24, 2012, 07:56 AM EST

  i think it was Arnie in 1 of his movies that said 'you still don't get it do you' only the blinkered can view the poppy as an emblem for the British dead, it is for all soldiers & if you can't see that, then you my friend are the facist, no wonder even the NI RC like me are willing to stay as part of the UK, the Republicans are the ones now who like to say No to everyone else, thankfully they will always be a minority

• Mortimer74 | Nov 26, 2012, 11:15 AM EST

  Enough already with the poppy fascists.

• Thomas84 | Nov 23, 2012, 03:47 AM EST

  Irish people wearing a poppy and saying its not about britain , its about the dead guys ... tell me this, have you ever honoured the other 98% of irish dead who fought in all the other armies. South america, north america, africa ,asia and australia. Thats right , they fought everywhere, but let me guess they dont matter because they didnt join the army you want to support. Wear your poppy, but at least have the courage to admit that you do it because you want to british or feel in some way that you are.

• YoungPike | Nov 19, 2012, 12:42 PM EST

  Well said jimquad! I too wear my poppy with pride and it has nothing to do with jingoism or glorifying war. Millions of young men lost their lives in the obscenity that was WWI. Then millions more gave their lives to rid the world of Nazism in WWII!

• IrelandNorth | Nov 19, 2012, 08:00 AM EST

  Tory n 1a a member of a major British political group of the 18th and 19th c favouring at first the Stuarts and later Royal authority and the established church and seeking to preserve the traditional political structure and defeat parliamentary reform b CONSERVATIVE 1 2 an American upholding the cause of the Crown during the American revolution - (Merrian-Webster (1987). Longmann Family Dictionary: A Clear, Concise and Modern Guide to the English Language. London: Chancellor Press, p 743). A term originally used to describe defeated Irishry by Cromwellian roundhead parliamentary commonwealthers who refused to go to the hell that was Connacht. Also an island off the coast of north Antrim. Avoid sanctimoniousness and/or pontification, I ponder which of the above definitions most closely approximates your nom-de-poste?

• IrelandNorth | Nov 19, 2012, 07:56 AM EST

  Tory n 1a a member of a major British political group of the 18th and 19th c favouring at first the Stuarts and later Royal authority and the established church and seeking to preserve the traditional political structure and defeat parliamentary reform b CONSERVATIVE 1 2 an American upholding the cause of the Crown during the American revolution - (Merrian-Webster (1987). Longmann Family Dictionary: A Clear, Concise and Modern Guide to the English Language. London: Chancellor Press, p 743). A term originally used to describe defeated Irishry by Cromwellian roundhead parliamentary commonwealthers who refused to go to the hell that was Connacht. Also an island off the coast of north Antrim. Avoid sanctimoniousness and/or pontification, I ponder which of the above definitions most closely approximates your nom-de-poste?

• seanomelb | Nov 15, 2012, 11:42 PM EST

  toryTory by your name we know you, a fawning Anglophile.

• maireadinmelb | Nov 15, 2012, 03:22 PM EST

  Given the Third Reich did not exist in WW1 your argument is moot citizen69. THe origins in the poppy are ww1 - the notion that "Small nations shall be free" that is all 1916 was about Making a small nation free!!

• citizen69 | Nov 15, 2012, 12:08 PM EST

  Pat Roberts, more Irishmen died in one battle of WWI than died in the entire war of independence in Ireland yet you think these men should not be remembered? It's not the war, the battle or the causes of the conflict that are being commemorated but the men & women who lost their lives. Hundreds of thousands of Irish fought in both world wars, protestants & catholics side by side. They stood up against the Nazi tyranny, which was out to conquer the whole of Europe, while those in the IRA stayed at home and conspired with the Third Reich behind their backs.

• ancavker | Nov 15, 2012, 10:14 AM EST

  Red Branch, yeash sure, and the militia's running around here in the U.S. in places like Idaho and Montana, say they are following in the foot steps of George Washington and the other AMerican revolutionaries. Should Americans cancel 4th of July because of that?

• hancock | Nov 15, 2012, 06:34 AM EST

  World War 1 led direcctly to World War 11. Pin your English poppy on that. Also to the demise of your English empire.

• maireadinmelb | Nov 15, 2012, 02:28 AM EST

  Interesting perspective redbranch - but you fail to associate the disastrous creation on yugoslavia as a result of ww1 and the effect that had up until the 1990's including genocide! Some would say that ww1 caused that debacle!

• RedBranch | Nov 14, 2012, 05:48 PM EST

  Last person to be shot as as result of WWI declarations was back in 1918. Last person to be shot dead as a result of the 1916 Proclamation, well that would be a couple of weeks ago. You pin on your lily Mr.Roberts you condone the further use of violence in Ireland. Simples!

• Strongbow | Nov 14, 2012, 05:37 PM EST

  WobblyKnee- Show me the lab where Fascism was "invented" and I'll introduce you to the fella who synthesised gravity.

• KevinKehoe | Nov 14, 2012, 02:09 PM EST

  Woundedknee: When I said :By all means remember and honor those brave souls who were butchered in there millions” I meant on all sides, especially since one of my relatives along with a few of his friends ending up fighting with the Germans against the allies in WW1.

• jimquad | Nov 14, 2012, 12:08 PM EST

  My irish ancestors were not lucky enough to stay in ireland during the famine. They had to leave for England. Then 50 years later their grandchildre thought in WW! and perished. Like most people I wear the poppy to remember their sacrifice. its nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of war.

• pilib04 | Nov 14, 2012, 11:24 AM EST

  WoundedKnee, the Blueshirt government has been trying to honor those Irish who fought for England during WW2, but have failed miserably in honoring those who fought against fascism in Spain. Might be because the Blueshirts fought alongside the fascists. What do you say, Enda? Not ready to disavow your Fascist roots yet?

• ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 09:26 AM EST

  IrelandNorth, It's a product of my instinctual omniscience that flares anytime some intellectual deigns to pontificate. Sanctimony? Give it a miss, please.

• ancavker | Nov 14, 2012, 08:53 AM EST

  stronbow: I guess you never read the 1916 Proclamation, if you are calling it's leaders Fascists, nor have you read the program of the first Dail in 1918. Or how well the Sinn Fein courts functioned. It was Cosgrave and company, who undid much of Sinn Fein's origianl great work, an reverted back to the British system. De Valera continued a long the same path.

• IrelandNorth | Nov 14, 2012, 08:44 AM EST

  ToryTory! Does that mean I can drivel sanctimoniously on about topics other than Causatively Amnesia Day Sunday. And how big was your radom sample of a sub-population of society to know that even just one person may actually have been interested in my quasi-psychological analysis.

• ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 08:26 AM EST

  Urgh, spare us this sanctimonious drivel, IrelandNorth. Nobody is interested in a thinly veiled socialist or quasi-psychological analysis of the Great War, or themes surrounding the Remembrance Poppy.

• IrelandNorth | Nov 14, 2012, 07:46 AM EST

  On being asked what he thought of western civilisation, Mathatma Ghandi replied that he thought it would be a good idea. The poppy's symbolism is that it was the only thing left growing after the wholesale slaughter was over. Red symbolise blood sacrifice, although of the imperial not republican kind. (Pacifists wear a white poppies for civilian and animal slaughter of this Euro-imperial blood fest. A letter to the editor of The Irish Times protested that proceeds from poppy sales go to ex-British Army personnel, some of whom may have been responsible for Bloody Sunday in Derry, etc. Remember more WHY they died rather than just that they did. And why would lions follow donkeys anyway? Poppy mania is an unconscious manifestation of a British ruling classe guilt complex of their ancestors sacrificial offering of servants on the alter of ethnocentric egomania! While Arlene's X-large poppy may compensate for the Taoiseach and his Irish Army aid-de-comps defiency, latter day inward migration of foreign nationals into Ireland may be pay back for the estimated 40,000 Austrians, Germans, Hungarians and Turks allegedly killed by Irishmen in BA uniform. The early 20th century ideology espoused blind obedience to authority. Never forget where this insanity leads to.

• ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 07:01 AM EST

  I see Woundedknee is spouting his drivel like usual: the Remembrance Poppy is the symbol of remembrance for the whole of the Commonwealth, and that includes former Commonwealth nation Ireland. The Royal British Legion, which is the primary charity for wounded soldiers, still operates in Ireland (40% of the Royal Irish Regiment hails from the ROI, just in-case your bigoted little mind didn't know). Remembrance Sunday is, likewise, a recognised memorial day with services held within the ROI.

• ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 06:50 AM EST

  Except it doesn't Sean: the Remembrance poppy is a commemorative symbol for fallen soldiers in the UK and Commonwealth. The principal beneficiary of the poppy is the Royal British Legion, a charity that offers succour to physically and mentally handicapped soldiers. So, which pejorative best suits you Sean? You disparage the symbol as one of colonialism & imperialism - is that your latent bigotry rearing its ugly head?

• barneyjo | Nov 14, 2012, 06:16 AM EST

  @woundedknee - just because you say its a lie, doesnt make it a lie. Furthermore, in your rebuttal of my post, I assume that you are aware of the presence and the scope of the Royal British Legion (Ireland) I myself was actually surprised at extent to which this organisation is active inside ROI. If you care to visit the website you will see that it has a separate section specifically for Ireland also :)

• puffin | Nov 14, 2012, 05:00 AM EST

  Did a trawl of unionist press and internet sites and guess what,no mention of Endas poppy or lack of one,what was the premise behind this article,Why was he in Eniskillen,no mention of the bomb, a disgraceful article.

• WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:13 AM EST

  One final thought. Quite a few Irishmen died fighting Fascism in the Spanish Civil War. Unlike British soldiers, they received little pay and fought purely for an ideal. How come the Poppy Police don't wear a symbol to commemorate their sacrifice?

• WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:09 AM EST

  KevinKehoe --Good post. But you neglected to mention the victims of these men. I calculate that Irishmen killed as many as 40.000 Turks, Germans, Austrians, Hungarians etc. between 1914-1918. This represents by far the greatest mass killing ever perpetrated by Irish people. Don't their victims deserve to be remembered?

• WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:06 AM EST

  barneyjo: "Its well documented..." There you go again. repeating the canrd you floated last week, even tho I challenged you on it. What you say is ignorant nonsense. The poppy was pretty much unknown in Dublin from the 1930s on. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true, it just makes you dumb.

• WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:04 AM EST

  Strongbow: "One could forward an argument that the rebels of 1916 were a band of fascists". Yes one could. If one were a bigot or a nut. By the way, how could people in 1916 follow an ideology that only was invented years later?

• Strongbow | Nov 13, 2012, 11:04 PM EST

  Since when is the poppy a celebration of war? No more than flowers on a grave are a celebration of death. Can you not just let other cultures and nations have their own traditions? Or are their culture, history and traditions somehow illegitimate until and when they acknowledge and stand in awe at your cherished culture and traditions etc. One could forward an argument that the rebels of 1916 were a band of fascists who fanned out to impose their theocratic and xenophobic vision on a populace and succeeded to a great extent. To digress a little, to characterize US intervention in Southeast Asia as a result of paranoia is naive in the extreme.

• KatieKazoo | Nov 13, 2012, 09:01 PM EST

  Surely they can come up with a world wide mourning symbol for all soldiers lost in war. People fighting courageously for 'right', or their perception of it. (Including 'guerrilla' soldiers). Maybe, though, a symbol of peace would show we learnt something from it all. But poppies? Well I think they are synonymous with British soldiers. Irish men may have fought as British soldiers, but it isn't on for us, or our Prime Minister to wear one. It would be like Americans or their Prime Minister wearing the Russian Eagle. Or the Apprentice boys going to Mass.

• barneyjo | Nov 13, 2012, 08:07 PM EST

  Its well documented that up until the 1960s the most successful branch of the Royal British Legion outside of London for raising money from the sale of the Poppy was.......DUBLIN!! That was of course until the IRA put them out of business. Of course it is a mark of maturity that the Irish Nation can now acknowledge that many thousands of Irishmen wore a British Uniform in both world wars during the 20th century. the youngest winner of the Victoria Cross in WW1 was a a boy soldier from Cork who was a catholic. The only winner of the Victoria Cross from the North during WW2 was a catholic from Belfast (McGuinness was his name) I was in county Donegal at the weekend and saw any number of people wearing the poppy, and guess what, the sky didnt fall in on anyone. Successive Sinn Fein Mayors of Belfast have laid wreaths on the war memorial at Belfast City hall, and in all cases, had relatives who fought and died in a British Uniform. Live and let live and leave the fascism aside.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 13, 2012, 06:47 PM EST

  Wear a poppy, don't wear a poppy...your choice...funds go to ex-soldiers welfare; that's what it means in 2012...

• KevinKehoe | Nov 13, 2012, 06:35 PM EST

  If I was to put one of those poppy-weeds on my person, my ancestors would surly rise-up and haunt me forever and rightly so. That weed is a reassuring symbol to the British elite and Imperialism that the serfs will blindly go off to foreign fields to kill and be killed in vast numbers yet again. By all means remember and honor those brave souls who were butchered in there millions at the behest of there lying masters and also remember the poor souls, many Irish among them who were lined up and shot to death because of shel-shock illness,desertion or simply not wanting to kill anymore, or some pompous a-s didn’t like him, all well documented. The poppy symbolizes Imperialism at its very worst and by wearing one endorses the wrongs done by mankind to his fellow man. The Lily however is a flower of beauty and symbolizes the opposite of Imperialism.

• seanomelb | Nov 13, 2012, 04:58 PM EST

  ToryTory naming some posters as on this site as bigots is an oxymoron. His bleeding heart support of anything British underlies his hypocrisy. Roberts got it right and wounded knee makes a fair point and pilib04 is correct it represents colonialism and imperialism.

• MichaelJTully | Nov 13, 2012, 04:58 PM EST

  First class opinion, fair play to for your article.

• merefalow | Nov 13, 2012, 04:34 PM EST

  it seems hypocrasy to wear a poppy commemarating the deaths of people who implimented the will of imperialist england on the subjugation ,imprisonment and death of irish men in their own country ,in defense of their ownnation.If they wear the easter lily then maybe we would wear the poppy.some things can never be forgotten,but maybe,in the spirit of conciliation,some things may be forgiven and never return to injustice,oppression,imprisonment,fear, death, and destruction.

• RedBranch | Nov 13, 2012, 02:49 PM EST

  God but Arlene's a tasty bit of flesh!

• pilib04 | Nov 13, 2012, 02:42 PM EST

  To suggest that one side was better than the other side in this war, is just plain balderdash. It was a waste of millions of working class lives solely for the profit of the upper class.

• Deidra47 | Nov 13, 2012, 02:21 PM EST

  You may not approve of the wars that were held but it is no reason not to remember and honor those who served or died during these times. They followed orders and did their duty. Wearing a poopy is also a reminder of the great loss in war and to try and not have them again. Those folks need to read the history of the "birth" of the poppy and the poem "In Flanders Field".

• hancock | Nov 13, 2012, 02:20 PM EST

  Hey , everybody doesn't love the english. Deal with it. What was WWI fought about? A lot of poor guys from a lot of countries got killed for nothing.

• ToryTory | Nov 13, 2012, 01:06 PM EST

  Thanks Pillb04 for your vapid analysis of the Great War; equally, thank you WoundedKnee for you bizarre meanderings into the realm of politicised history. The usual dross from Irish Central presenting their bigotry for all to see.

• pilib04 | Nov 13, 2012, 01:04 PM EST

  By the way, TORY TORY is correct. The Poppy symbolizes Colonialism and Imperialism.

• pilib04 | Nov 13, 2012, 01:02 PM EST

  Enda Kenny didn't wear a poppy? Now that's a shocker! I knew he was in Enniskillen for the Remembrance Day, but just assumed he would wear the poppy. There must be some mistake. First he takes on the Pope, and now he thumbs his nose at the English. Goodness, what will happen next?

• WoundedKnee | Nov 13, 2012, 01:01 PM EST

  Many thousands of Irishmen perished in the War Between the States. How come the Irish aren't obsessing about commemorating their sacrifice? It is calculated that some 40.000 Irishmen fought in the Armies of the CSA, and of course a bigger number on the Union side. After the War, many veterans on both sides combined in the Irish Republican force which invaded Canada in an attempt to take the pressure of their Fenian brothers in Ireland. Why do the Irish fawn over the occupiers of their land instead of remembering these brave men? Instead of the wretched poppy, we need to devise a symbol that remembers Irishmen and women killed in action in all conflicts.

• pilib04 | Nov 13, 2012, 12:57 PM EST

  I agree with Roberts on this one. WWI was a war that was really regarding the dividing of Africa and Asia by the Imperialist European countries. They were really fighting about international hegemony. The English and French were totally uncaring about "freedom." All they cared about were their colonial possessions. I'll stick to the Easter Lily, thank you.

• katiemac | Nov 13, 2012, 12:25 PM EST

  What utter rubbish! Whether one honors those who gave their lives for the freedom of Europe, in general, or Ireland, specifically, we should honor their heroic sacrifice. Such honor is not mutually exclusive. It is just a bit beyond the comprehension of 'modern' generations who see little for which they might be willing to die.

• ToryTory | Nov 13, 2012, 12:20 PM EST

  It's not a 'British military' symbol you idiot. Christ, all you people do is politicise something that is distinctly non-political.

• ReturnedYank | Nov 13, 2012, 12:04 PM EST

  Well said, Patrick. If people don't wear a British military poppy, they shouldn't be forced to. As for me, I still think the good guys were *inside* the GPO shooting out, not the other way around.

• ancavker | Nov 13, 2012, 11:46 AM EST

  Thank you Patrick. I feel the same way.

• ToryTory | Nov 13, 2012, 11:04 AM EST

  Oh shut up Cillowen you imbecile - you're falling for the same bait that has engendered criticism of Kenny & Co: politicising a non-political act.

• cillowen | Nov 13, 2012, 10:31 AM EST

  fools wearing the poppy to honor Britain's forked tongued promise of granting the freedom of the island of ireland to its people - that was a lie as we know. They've tried the same caper time after time but now the quislings strut their stuff for queen and merry o. Tis an upside down shamrock they should be wearing to mourn with instead.

• Nicoletta | Nov 13, 2012, 10:20 AM EST

  Wearing a poppy is a way of remembering the fallen. Many Irishmen lost their lives in both WWI and WWII. Enda Kenny insults their memory by his actions and needs to grow up.

• Portia777 | Nov 13, 2012, 10:03 AM EST

  On a point of principle I would not want to commemorate it, no more than I would the Vietnam War here which I regard as the closing kick of American paranoia about communism in Southeast Asia Who in their right mind celebrates death of human brothers and sisters? Vietnam war was a Jesuit war- they love killing and feeding of the death and suffering energy- so why celebrate and feed the vile war game/

• ToryTory | Nov 13, 2012, 09:48 AM EST

  'Poppy fascism'? What a pillock and, quite frankly, how insulting. Wearing a poppy doesn't connote glorification of war, rather, it's a token of remembrance - there is a different. Certain Irishmen in the public eye - not all, mind - choose not to wear a poppy because of an encrusted, ethnic bigotry towards the British & the British Army. Well, more fool them - bunch of fools. John Snow is a well known Guardianista liberal - he's wetter than a fishes bathing suit; the fact he chooses not to wear a poppy is symptomatic of his extreme liberalism and nothing more - it's completely apart from the reason why some Irishmen choose not to wear it.

• Mousey123 | Nov 13, 2012, 09:47 AM EST

  A little problem with the math. The seven million who died (paragraph six) cannot "include" eight million soldiers. There actually are es timated at anywhere from nine to 16 million (depending on whom you're counting). Civilian deaths constitute about seven million due to both military action and faminie and disease.