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People and Politics by Patrick Roberts

Poppy fascism used against Irish leaders in politics and sport -- No reason to glorify horrific deaths in World War I

Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 07:18 AM

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Irish leader Enda Kenny made the decision not to wear a Remembrance Day poppy

I see Irish leader Enda Kenny, Foreign Minister Eamon Gilmore, rugby star Brian O’Driscoll, and soccer star James McClean have all been attacked for not wearing the poppy on Remembrance Day.

That is poppy fascism at its finest.

John Snow, the distinguished British commentator, refuses to wear a poppy for that very reason, as he rails against the Poppy fanatics who regard not wearing one in honor of Britain’s war dead as close to treason.

I’ll wear my own poppy when the British wear an Easter Lily remembering the Easter Rising of 1916 dead – that is it, pure and simple.

The First World War was a complete abomination, a blood filled massacre on a thousand battlefields that left millions dead and ravaged and led to the even bloodier Second World War conflict.

Thirty seven million died including 8 million soldiers in the bloodiest war in history to that point – and we are supposed to celebrate that?

Beside that, Patrick Pearse’s 1916 Rebellion with 446 killed was like a rounding error for the First World War casualties.

Read more: Enda Kenny and sports stars Brian O’Driscoll and James McClean criticised over Poppy Day snub

On a point of principle I would not want to commemorate it, no more than I would the Vietnam War here which I regard as the closing kick of American paranoia about communism in Southeast Asia.

Very few wars are just, as the churches and your common sense will tell you, and World War One, which has its origins in a series of utterly obscure events in the Balkans, will never be in that category.

Of course there were brave men who fought in it and died, lions led by donkeys as the Ulster Volunteers called it, but that does not excuse its utter uselessness.

For any Irish leader to wear the poppy would be to ennoble that dreadful struggle where the upper class Brits sent millions of working-class men to their deaths.

No way say I that it should be remembered and treated as some kind of antiseptic heroic deed from long ago.

The men who died so needlessly would surely not want it so.

So count me out poppy fascists -- unless you wear the Easter Lily too.

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jimquad | Nov 14, 2012, 12:08 PM EST

My irish ancestors were not lucky enough to stay in ireland during the famine. They had to leave for England. Then 50 years later their grandchildre thought in WW! and perished. Like most people I wear the poppy to remember their sacrifice. its nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of war.

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pilib04 | Nov 14, 2012, 11:24 AM EST

WoundedKnee, the Blueshirt government has been trying to honor those Irish who fought for England during WW2, but have failed miserably in honoring those who fought against fascism in Spain. Might be because the Blueshirts fought alongside the fascists. What do you say, Enda? Not ready to disavow your Fascist roots yet?

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ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 09:26 AM EST

IrelandNorth, It's a product of my instinctual omniscience that flares anytime some intellectual deigns to pontificate. Sanctimony? Give it a miss, please.

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ancavker | Nov 14, 2012, 08:53 AM EST

stronbow: I guess you never read the 1916 Proclamation, if you are calling it's leaders Fascists, nor have you read the program of the first Dail in 1918. Or how well the Sinn Fein courts functioned. It was Cosgrave and company, who undid much of Sinn Fein's origianl great work, an reverted back to the British system. De Valera continued a long the same path.

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IrelandNorth | Nov 14, 2012, 08:44 AM EST

ToryTory! Does that mean I can drivel sanctimoniously on about topics other than Causatively Amnesia Day Sunday. And how big was your radom sample of a sub-population of society to know that even just one person may actually have been interested in my quasi-psychological analysis.

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ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 08:26 AM EST

Urgh, spare us this sanctimonious drivel, IrelandNorth. Nobody is interested in a thinly veiled socialist or quasi-psychological analysis of the Great War, or themes surrounding the Remembrance Poppy.

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IrelandNorth | Nov 14, 2012, 07:46 AM EST

On being asked what he thought of western civilisation, Mathatma Ghandi replied that he thought it would be a good idea. The poppy's symbolism is that it was the only thing left growing after the wholesale slaughter was over. Red symbolise blood sacrifice, although of the imperial not republican kind. (Pacifists wear a white poppies for civilian and animal slaughter of this Euro-imperial blood fest. A letter to the editor of The Irish Times protested that proceeds from poppy sales go to ex-British Army personnel, some of whom may have been responsible for Bloody Sunday in Derry, etc. Remember more WHY they died rather than just that they did. And why would lions follow donkeys anyway? Poppy mania is an unconscious manifestation of a British ruling classe guilt complex of their ancestors sacrificial offering of servants on the alter of ethnocentric egomania! While Arlene's X-large poppy may compensate for the Taoiseach and his Irish Army aid-de-comps defiency, latter day inward migration of foreign nationals into Ireland may be pay back for the estimated 40,000 Austrians, Germans, Hungarians and Turks allegedly killed by Irishmen in BA uniform. The early 20th century ideology espoused blind obedience to authority. Never forget where this insanity leads to.

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ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 07:01 AM EST

I see Woundedknee is spouting his drivel like usual: the Remembrance Poppy is the symbol of remembrance for the whole of the Commonwealth, and that includes former Commonwealth nation Ireland. The Royal British Legion, which is the primary charity for wounded soldiers, still operates in Ireland (40% of the Royal Irish Regiment hails from the ROI, just in-case your bigoted little mind didn't know). Remembrance Sunday is, likewise, a recognised memorial day with services held within the ROI.

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ToryTory | Nov 14, 2012, 06:50 AM EST

Except it doesn't Sean: the Remembrance poppy is a commemorative symbol for fallen soldiers in the UK and Commonwealth. The principal beneficiary of the poppy is the Royal British Legion, a charity that offers succour to physically and mentally handicapped soldiers. So, which pejorative best suits you Sean? You disparage the symbol as one of colonialism & imperialism - is that your latent bigotry rearing its ugly head?

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barneyjo | Nov 14, 2012, 06:16 AM EST

@woundedknee - just because you say its a lie, doesnt make it a lie. Furthermore, in your rebuttal of my post, I assume that you are aware of the presence and the scope of the Royal British Legion (Ireland) I myself was actually surprised at extent to which this organisation is active inside ROI. If you care to visit the website you will see that it has a separate section specifically for Ireland also :)

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puffin | Nov 14, 2012, 05:00 AM EST

Did a trawl of unionist press and internet sites and guess what,no mention of Endas poppy or lack of one,what was the premise behind this article,Why was he in Eniskillen,no mention of the bomb, a disgraceful article.

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WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:13 AM EST

One final thought. Quite a few Irishmen died fighting Fascism in the Spanish Civil War. Unlike British soldiers, they received little pay and fought purely for an ideal. How come the Poppy Police don't wear a symbol to commemorate their sacrifice?

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WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:09 AM EST

KevinKehoe --Good post. But you neglected to mention the victims of these men. I calculate that Irishmen killed as many as 40.000 Turks, Germans, Austrians, Hungarians etc. between 1914-1918. This represents by far the greatest mass killing ever perpetrated by Irish people. Don't their victims deserve to be remembered?

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WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:06 AM EST

barneyjo: "Its well documented..." There you go again. repeating the canrd you floated last week, even tho I challenged you on it. What you say is ignorant nonsense. The poppy was pretty much unknown in Dublin from the 1930s on. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true, it just makes you dumb.

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WoundedKnee | Nov 14, 2012, 04:04 AM EST

Strongbow: "One could forward an argument that the rebels of 1916 were a band of fascists". Yes one could. If one were a bigot or a nut. By the way, how could people in 1916 follow an ideology that only was invented years later?

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