NEW YORK BOSTON |#Popular: Irish Celebrity Gossip Irish Pubs Irish Festivals Irish Roots Irish Entertainment Offbeat Irish

Home Page > Blogs > News blogs > People and Politics > Pope John Paul exhumation and blood in vials a very strange business

People and Politics by Patrick Roberts

Pope John Paul exhumation and blood in vials a very strange business

Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2011 at 10:26 AM

Larger Text

E-mail

24 Comments

RSS

24 comments

Next Page 1 of 2 pages

Springfield9 | Jun 03, 2011, 10:12 AM EDT

It's a 2000 year old, Roman invention. It's bound to have weird old stuff. It changes at the rate a glacier moves. Let them have their vials and morbid shows. I talk to heaven nearly every day when I look at the garden and ask whether the "stuff" is ever going to come up.

Report abuse

MMLeprechaun | May 10, 2011, 11:01 AM EDT

Look, writer of the above column, since you obviously have no concept of what the Beatification or Canonization process is all about, stop wasting space...you are making the proverbial fool of yourself. If you want to study Rituals that are strange to the non-member person, check into some of the leading Societies like the Masons, etc. But until you understand Catholicism, just be quiet. And if you claim to belong to some Church, God help it, then do it and yourself a favor...either study it or leave. All doors swing both ways.

Report abuse

sirpeter | May 07, 2011, 08:39 AM EDT

It's beyond weird.We need to give up on this Hocus-pocus stuff. I can't believe people are still Bible quoting in this day and age.It's pure madness. Poster(A) makes a comment.Then poster(B)tells poster (A)not to be judge other people or he will not find happiness in the next life and then goes on to judge poster(A)and call him names. Planet Earth the insane asylum of the Universe.

Report abuse

seanomelbourne | May 05, 2011, 09:13 PM EDT

The seanomelbourne piece below was not written by me.

Report abuse

seanomelbourne | May 03, 2011, 09:56 PM EDT

I have slivers of (blessed)timbers for sale the miracle they perform is "the opening of the mind to other ideas".I procured the timber from the cross I bear reading the stupid religious hype on this site.

Report abuse

unconvinced | May 03, 2011, 07:17 AM EDT

This pope is in Hell , i'm sure he would love a chance to be beatified but sadly hell is for eternity

Report abuse

Carroll09 | May 02, 2011, 06:48 PM EDT

...I suppose you have a problem with an Anglican using what was originally a Catholic title? My point is that your statement is a cheap-shot and is completely meaningless, especially if you care to take the time to look into ecclesiastical history. Regarding the normal five-year waiting period which was waived: this is not without precedent. Pope John Paul himself opened the cause for the canonisation of Blessed Mother Teresa less than two years after her death; not to mention the fact that all the saints of the early Church were proclaimed by acclamation of the people (much like those in St Peter's Square at the funeral of Pope John Paul II who shouted "Santo Subito"). The first saint "formally" canonised was Saint Ulrich, canonised at the end of the tenth century by Pope John XV. Finally, for those who are claiming that Pope Benedict is only advancing his own agenda by beatifying Pope John Paul - Andrea Tornielli, the Vatican correspondent with Italian newspaper "La Stampa" has asserted that Pope Benedict considered but rejected calls for the instant canonisation of Pope John Paul. In the end, as we know, he waived the normal period of five years, but would not skip the step of beatification. Given that, at the time of his election, Pope Benedict predicted a short reign for himself, surely if he had an agenda to canonise his predecessor during his own lifetime, he could have done so.

Report abuse

Carroll09 | May 02, 2011, 06:47 PM EDT

CaptainCon - the veneration of relics is not an "invention" of the Catholic Church, but rather it is something which the Protestant ecclesial communities rejected. Look at the second book of the Kings, 13:20-21: "Once some people were burying a man, when suddenly they spied such a raiding band. So they cast the dead man into the grave of Elisha, and everyone went off. But when the man came in contact with the bones of Elisha, he came back to life and rose to his feet". The power of relics thus precedes even the Catholic Church. However, it is clear that even the early Church venerated relics: did not the woman in Matthew 9 not have faith that even touching Christ's garment would cure her? In the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 5, did the people not carry the sick out onto the streets so that even Peter's shadow might fall across them? Or in Acts 19, "when face cloths or aprons that touched [Paul's] skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them". Most interesting that you accuse the Catholic Church of idolatry, yet you yourself reject the fact that the practice of venerating relics is itself entirely scriptural and not in the least idolatrous. As for your "nota bene" that the word "Pontiff" comes from the title of the Roman emperors "Pontifex Maximus" - so what? Does not the British monarch, for example, still use the title "Fidei Defensor" bestowed upon King Henry VIII by Pope Leo X - the reigning monarch most certainly is not the defender of the Catholic faith, but is now "Fidei Defensor" of the Anglican Communion...[continued]

Report abuse

jacersagain | May 02, 2011, 05:26 PM EDT

(...more) The bones of that finger are back in India today, where Thomas founded India’s Catholic Church. Thomas’ remains lay in Mylapore, and later in Edessa, over centuries, until taken by Italian seafarers to Ortona. When the Catholic priests of recent-time India, speaking Latin, asked Pope John II if they could have the bones of St. Thomas’ back in India, Karol looked them in their eyes, paused enough in his thoughts as Pope and a human being looking at their pleading eyes, he relented just a little a bit on their request: he gave them that index finger out of the casket that lies in Ortona. Yes, people want to have and to keep precious things as reminders of life contuing in new born babies, even of the One who was resurrected by God to be, in this day and age, a reminder to doubters and non-believers that He is still around somewhere in their lives.I still haven’t thrown out my children’s cot. It’s too much of a treasure. Why should anyone throw away any treasure... most of all, the free treasure of a Christ?

Report abuse

jacersagain | May 02, 2011, 05:15 PM EDT

(...more) The skeletal bones in the silver casket in Ortona are missing a few bits... most especially the index finger that the doubting Thomas stuck into the speared side wound of Jesus after his seeing Him after that Resurrection from the dead event. After Thomas did that finger sticking, he experienced something. He was honest enough to look at his own finger, after withdrawing it from the wound and seeing the living blood on it, to look up on the face and eyes of our Saviour, exclaiming “My lord and my God!” (Think about that, next time you attend Mass and hear the words of Consecration). Thomas was the only one – the only one - of all of the Apostles to go and tell everyone outside the kingdoms of the Jews, Romans and Gentiles about what his finger’s poking found. (more...)

Report abuse

jacersagain | May 02, 2011, 05:08 PM EDT

D’you know what? There is something right about what Gearoid4 says and people holding on to things that are special, little reminders of life. In the attic of my house, there is a dismantled cot, the one that each of my children slept in as babies. My wife asked me to put it up there but when I looked at her when she said that and I asked her if we should not just discard it, she was adamant that it should be kept in our home, even if consigned to the dusty cobwebbing attic. My dear wife is now sleeping with angels but the cot is still up in the attic; I haven’t thrown it out. You might now ask why jacers is writing this post... Let me, please, be a little divergent... I was privileged enough to visit the church of Maria Maggiore in Rome, where five pieces of the original wooden crib that a baby swaddled in cloths in a town called Bet Lehem once lay, is on display for all to see. I also had the privilege to visit the town of Ortona, 20 mins by train from Pescara in Italy, where the casket containing the bones of Apostle Thomas is on view for all to see. (More...)

Report abuse

Monsoonman | May 02, 2011, 01:32 AM EDT

Lad you can pick yourself up a tidy 55.00 U.S. per week by donating your plasma. Help pay for a green fee.

Report abuse

seanomelbourne | May 01, 2011, 07:59 PM EDT

I wonder if my blood is worth bottling Mman? after all we are all suppose to be equal in the eyes of the lord.People can pay a penny and wait for a miracle.After all it's always about money I remember seeing prayer cards with a tiny piece of wood or bone from some saint or other on sale at churches.

Report abuse

CaptainCon | May 01, 2011, 06:32 PM EDT

This thing of venerating bones only originated with the catholic church- one of the few novel ideas it ever came up with and again had more to do with money than anything else. Bones were quite reqularly stolen from the crypts of Rome and sold by the vatican to medieval market towns around 'christendom'. The veneration of idols is prohibited by catholic dogma but that doesn't seem to stop the vatican. Niall is right in that this is downright ghoulish. There is normally a five year waiting period for 'Blessed' status which has also been waived in this unseemly haste to remind catholics of a hero in order to distract from the worldwide discrediting of this organisation. Bread and circuses. How very Roman. But then not so unusual for a cult which effectively inhabited the remains of the Roman Empire and prolonged its life in the metaphysical sphere long after the Roman Empire was finally sacked... like a hermit crab crawling into a new shell. Worth remembering that even the word 'Pontiff' comes from 'Pontifex Maximus' which was a title Julius Caesar held as a young man (in the temple of Jupiter).

Report abuse

Gearoid4 | May 01, 2011, 04:22 PM EDT

The victims of child abuse have to be central to any discussion on this terrible plague. But your comments Monsoonman are typical of those who want to use this very important and heart-rending issue to beat the late John Paul 11 over the head with. By the time that child abuse broke out in the US in 2002, the pope was an ailing man. There was no collection decision-making regarding this across the different Vatican depts. The pope did make a postive move in knocking the heads of the US bishops together to come up with concrete policies which really amounted to zero tolerance for sex-abusers within the ranks of clerics. The present pope, then Cardinal Josef Ratzinger successfully advised his predecessor to give him control over this affair during his time as head of the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith. We must legitimately question the shortcomings of Pope John Paul 11 regarding this and other issues. The status of Blessed, does not imply that the recipient had no flaws but the overall record of John Paul 11 will stand the test of time in that regard.

Report abuse

Next Page 1 of 2 pages