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| Enda Kenny and Michael Collins |
The Irish Times reported today that Irish leader Enda Kenny had made clear that Michael Collins would have supported the government’s economic policies—i.e. paying back billions in loans given to rotten banks by European banks.
The Times stated, “Mr. Kenny told the 90th annual Béal na mBláth commemoration he was certain Collins would have approved of the restructuring program embarked upon by the Government to regain economic sovereignty.”
Collins will be 90 years dead this week, hence the Kenny speech at the annual commemoration—but I seriously doubt if he was alive he’d agree with the economic policy of this Irish government, or the previous one.
Indeed, I could see him leading the charge outside parliament, hurling the “little streets upon the great” as Yeats so wonderfully wrote. Once a revolutionary, always one.
Given his revolutionary past he would hardly be likely to accept that the Irish people put themselves into near bankruptcy to serve foreign banks.
Collins would be much more likely to put two fingers in the air to Brussels, Germany, and all their works, and tell the Irish people to cop themselves on.
He would have been outraged over the corrupt bankers and the gombeen men who brought Ireland to its knees — and at the politicians who allowed the crimes to fester.
Collins would have been standing with the ordinary people and not the establishment on this one.
Collins is Ireland’s most iconic figure and Irish America’s too. When we did a poll last year as to the greatest Irishman he won hands down.
His legend lives on –sometimes in extraordinary and hilarious ways.
There were two wonderful student rascals let loose here in America this summer who had brought along a huge cardboard cutout of Michael Collins and posed with photographs of him everywhere – in subway stations, Empire State Building, et cetera.
It spoke volumes about the stature of Collins that even kids today there clearly revere him.
That is as it should be. He has become the most iconic figure in Irish history.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.Towngate | Aug 31, 2012, 07:40 AM EDT
Who can say what Collins would do now? What we do know;is that when he 'had his turn' - he made a right bollix of it! ~~~ amd as for Brian Brew; Consider Laoghaire('King of Dublin'). Brian wouldn't help rid them of the pesky Norsemen without total power of 'kingship'. Clever Laoghaire stood down and Brian got himself duly killed, The Noesemen were discouraged from settling in 'Dublin' for a time. Laoghaire reclaimed the kingship and the Norsemen came back and stayed. Yep,even then 'Irish' powerbrokers were a tricky bunch and Enda is no different, although he is doing a fantastic job of standing up to the delusional populace by persuading them to take a long overdue 'reality Pill'!
aherlowglen | Aug 25, 2012, 01:45 PM EDT
Never mind Enda. He assured us that Collins brought Lenin to Ireland in 1921. That never happened.
DanOLoingsigh | Aug 24, 2012, 04:33 AM EDT
curtisj with his well-balanced riposte - carrying a chip on both shoulders...all Commonwealth countries are independent...its a free association of equals..even has member countries that were never connected with Britain in the past...
curtisjohnson | Aug 23, 2012, 06:59 PM EDT
"Home Rule WAS WON…the act passed into law in 1914, and without WW1 it would have been enacted . . . ." Just like the Treaty of Limerick I guess? Realistically, even if it passed Ireland would have had less autonomy than many Commonwealth nations. Britain never freely admitted to the right of the Irish people to self determination - the additional freedoms after 1921 had to be unilaterally asserted by the Free State (following a a trade/tariff war) and none were voluntarily acquiesced to by the british terror state. From the northern land grab onward british conduct suggest that it intended to keep as much control over Ireland as possible.
DanOLoingsigh | Aug 23, 2012, 06:49 PM EDT
ancavker – Home Rule WAS WON…the act passed into law in 1914, and without WW1 it would have been enacted…IPP outnumbered?? It held the balance of power in the UK Parliament…whichever party it supported would form the government…so it was ‘punching well above it weight’…given that, it was in a strong position to pressure the government into being less accommodating about partition…and that version of Home Rule could have been developed, just as the Free State version was…of course this would not fit the republican narrative…but one cannot say that a peaceful IPP brokered settlement would not have led to a more positive outcome
ancavker | Aug 23, 2012, 09:37 AM EDT
fergananim: Of course we can agree to disagree. That is how a civilized conversation should be.
Fergananim | Aug 22, 2012, 10:51 PM EDT
Well ancavker, I apoligise if I insulted you. That was not my intent. Its too easy to give into invective here. Can we just agree to disagree? My measure of Brian's support is that so few marched with him to Clontarf - no one from Ulaid, Airgiall, In Tuisceart, Osraighe, south Munster/Desmond, and virtually no one from Connacht. Quite clearly, becoming king of a unified island state was the goal of high kings before and after Brian, but not one that was ever (in my view!) achieved. It would have being marvellous, though.
Happyhippo | Aug 22, 2012, 01:38 PM EDT
Be sure to take all comments by those who were elected to steer the country in the right direction with an extra large grain of salt,looking up from the deep hole we're in.
mamaginnty | Aug 22, 2012, 12:42 PM EDT
It was quite sickening to hear Kenny waffling on, I think the eejit thinks he is a second Michael Collins, or that all republicans will now follow him. Gilmore in Labour tried the same carry on during the referendum with posters saying ..."Labour the real republican Party " They are running scared and trying to jump on the bandwagon for republican support.....never. Collins would have had this government bunch up for treason for sure.
SeamusMor | Aug 22, 2012, 11:45 AM EDT
Ancaver is correct about Brian Boru, and Fergananim is misinformed. The Battle of Clontarf was the final act of a violent tax revolt lead by the Kings of Leinster and Dublin, in alliance with invading Vikings, against the central authority of Irish High King, Brian Boru.
ancavker | Aug 22, 2012, 10:53 AM EDT
I was not indoctrinated that is what happens with uneducated ignorant people. And I am neither. Brian Boru did unite the Irish if only for a short period of time, and proved that when united they (the Irish) could accomplish much. Alas it did not last, and the Irish resorted to what they are still famous for, fighting amongst themselves, just as many of the Scottish clans in the highlands. It has been the achilles heel of the Irish. And I believe you do attemot to delegitimize the struggle for Irish independence in justifying partition. Even mainstream British historians now acknowledge that it was a mistake, and retarded the potential for both parts of the island. That howvever is ignored by those Irish who preach revisionism.
Fergananim | Aug 22, 2012, 10:13 AM EDT
@ancavker - Central is playing up again, so I'm reposting. "Brian Boru: King, High-King, and Emperor of the Irish" by David B. Beougher, is a pretty good overview of Brian's carear. Look for it at Medievalists.net
Fergananim | Aug 22, 2012, 10:01 AM EDT
If you REALLY want a decent summation of Brian's carrear, try this link - "Brian Boru: King, High-King, and Emperor of the Irish" by David B. Beougher. but please remember that not one of the High-King's ever unified Ireland into a sovernign independent state. No one ever has. Someday, perhaps, but not so far. http://www.medievalists.net/2008/09/25/brian-boru-king-high-king-and-emperor-of-the-irish/
TayandCake | Aug 22, 2012, 09:59 AM EDT
How does he know what Collins would think of the whole thing, Skype????
Fergananim | Aug 22, 2012, 09:46 AM EDT
@ancavker - No, he did not. Why else do you think the battle of Clontarf occoured? I'm not trying to delegitimize Irish independence, I'm simply stating historic fact. It appears revisionist to you because you were indocrinated with a version of Irish history that accords with nationalist dogma, not history as it occoured.
ancavker | Aug 22, 2012, 09:33 AM EDT
Dan: Here you go again. If the Irish Parliamentary party had the kind of influence you speak of, then they would have gotten Home Rule, but they did not. They were still way outnumbered by their British counterpart. Second even if Home Rule was won, Ireland would have been partitioned as the unionists wantted no part of it. So we would still have 2 Irish parliaments under the British crown. Three the home rule that the British may have ultimatley given the Dublin Parliament was incredibly limited, much, much less than what the Scots have today, and with no control over fiscal policy. To repeat, the independence achieved in 1922 was far greater than the Home Rule offered in 1914, and it took a violent war of independence to achieve it. That its ideals were not achieved is the fault of the generations that followed, including this one. It seems the Irish will blame anyone but themselves for their problems, including the dead.
ancavker | Aug 22, 2012, 09:26 AM EDT
oonafitz: When a topic comes up about a dead historical figure, it is only natural that there would be a coverstation, discusioon, and yes of course speculation and what if's. Since we cannot all meet in a Pub or around the kitchen table, this forum will have to do.
ancavker | Aug 22, 2012, 09:24 AM EDT
ferganamin: Yes Brian Boru did. Stop trying to delegitimize the past Irish fight for independence and freedom. We all today recognize that partiton is here, and will not change until the majority od Irish people north and south vote otherwise. Revisionism in Irish history over the last 100 years is one thing, but in your case you go back 1000 to 3000 years or more.
Fergananim | Aug 22, 2012, 08:34 AM EDT
@SeamusMor - Brian Boru didn't united Ireland. Sorry about that.
Fergananim | Aug 22, 2012, 08:32 AM EDT
"Indeed, I could see him leading the charge outside parliament," Collins had many talents, but being a soldier wasn't one of them. He fought in two battles, during which he was respectively captured, and shot dead.
IrelandNorth | Aug 22, 2012, 06:36 AM EDT
Apropos the constitutionality vs physical force debate. It's worth reminding ourselves that various Irish Home Rule Bills were kicked around the British Parliament as political footballs for the guts of a century with little progress. Not the thing to encourage faith Irish nationalist in British constitutionalism. Physical force is regrettable, but a deliberate policy of parliamentary frustrationism, obfuscationism and downright subversionism doesn't/didn't help.
IrelandNorth | Aug 22, 2012, 06:14 AM EDT
It isn't unheard of for contemporary politicians to invoke a pantheon of national heroes to retrospectively legitimise idological heresies. Archive film footage in Colm Connolly's (1992) excellent 70th anniversary historical documentary - "The Shadow of Béal na mBláth, (an edited version of which is viewable on YouTube), shows Collins accepting subscriptions from nationalist notables of the day at the footsteps of Pearse's Gaelscoil St Enda's to fund the new state. Using the block upon which Irish patriot Robert Emmet was beheaded by the English over a century before. And not a corporate loansharking bankster in sight! An Taoiseach Ó Cíonnaith/Kenny does as unconvincing a Collins impersonation as he does of Martin Luther kicking the pope in Dáil Éireann. Thing is, none of us know what any historical legend would or wouldn't have done. And we should cease and desist from pretending that we do. Real question is, to what island (or islands) does the Irish political establishment owe its allegience - Ireland, Great Britain or the Caym€n I$land$?
IrelandNorth | Aug 22, 2012, 06:13 AM EDT
It isn't unheard of for contemporary politicians to invoke a pantheon of national heroes to retrospectively legitimise idological heresies. Archive film footage in Colm Connolly's (1992) excellent 70th anniversary historical documentary - "The Shadow of Béal na mBláth, (an edited version of which is viewable on YouTube), shows Collins accepting subscriptions from nationalist notables of the day at the footsteps of Pearse's Gaelscoil St Enda's to fund the new state. Using the block upon which Irish patriot Robert Emmet was beheaded by the English over a century before. And not a corporate loansharking bankster in sight! An Taoiseach Ó Cíonnaith/Kenny does as unconvincing a Collins impersonation as he does of Martin Luther kicking the pope in Dáil Éireann. Thing is, none of us know what any historical legend would or wouldn't have done. And we should cease and desist from pretending that we do. Real question is, to what island (or islands) does the Irish political establishment owe its allegience - Ireland, Great Britain or the Caym€n I$land$?
James555 | Aug 21, 2012, 04:09 PM EDT
I think Michael Collins would have this government and the last one shot for treason.
mayoman1 | Aug 21, 2012, 03:56 PM EDT
Michael Collins record states quite clearly that he was a pragmatist,but, it's really futile to guess what he might have done in circumstances that were beyond imagination in his time.
DanOLoingsigh | Aug 21, 2012, 02:29 PM EDT
We can equally, and as pointlessly, speculate about what if certain events never happened, so what about if 1916 never happened? No executions - IPP again hold balance of power in first post-war government - so they ensure Lloyd George and Co. honour the Home Rule Act provisions - stand up against Unionist pressure - therefore no partition - so take a bow PP, JC et al...you ensured partition...
DanOLoingsigh | Aug 21, 2012, 02:22 PM EDT
ancavker - If I was petty I would point out that some posters DID say WOULD HAVE DONE...but as I'm not petty...I won't!!!
pndirishandprou | Aug 21, 2012, 02:20 PM EDT
What would Jesus do in the Euro crisis.... What a stupid hypothetical question, also about Michael Collins. He would have embraced any support from anywhere as long as it would have helped in achieving Irish sovereignty.
SeamusMor | Aug 21, 2012, 12:19 PM EDT
Brian Boru lived the greatest Irish life! He alone in history united Ireland. Michael Collins' mother was an O'Brien, and he shared the ambition and vision of his most illustrious ancestor to see Ireland whole and enjoying peace and prosperity. Like Brian Boru, Michael Collins shared another highly prized trait in a commander and statesman; the willingness and ability to regroup and consolidate gains before pressing on towards the final victory. Due to Michael Collins, the British Army marched out of Ireland, and then the Irish made "immediate and terrible war" upon themselves! The Irish Republic, a dubious and regrettable flirtation with self government occurring between the departure of the British and the arrival of the Troika, is a failed state. Someone strong has to come along a lead a revolution, burn the debt, and start over with a government, perhaps a direct democracy, that lives within its means.
barneyjo | Aug 21, 2012, 10:54 AM EDT
Retrospective wishful thought on the past is never a waste of time. It can help to shape the future!!
oonafitz | Aug 21, 2012, 10:29 AM EDT
I agree with DanOLoingsigh. I find the constant speculation about what long dead people would do in this vastly different world a waste of time, although perhaps worthy of discussion in the pub or around the kitchen table. Even worse is politicians or other celebrities claiming that the person would be on their side.
MichaelMcGrath | Aug 21, 2012, 09:56 AM EDT
As for the banksters , Collins would have emptied his Mauser into them:-)
MichaelMcGrath | Aug 21, 2012, 09:48 AM EDT
Collins would not be very P.C., I can assure you:-) He wasn't very liberal either, he was an out-and-out proud Irish nationalist up for the Irish people and for nobody else.
KerryGold | Aug 21, 2012, 09:38 AM EDT
Collins must be turning in his grave. Then again he must have been spinning in his grave for the last number of years. It sickened me to hear Enda talk when he compared himself to great Irishman Collins. These politicians, bankers and builders destroyed this country with their greed, AngryPaddy is correct Collins would have shot them for financial treason. Kenny should not have spoken at that memorial and insulted the memory of a hero. Shame on him.
ArmaghCity | Aug 21, 2012, 09:33 AM EDT
I too am disappointed in the Ireland of today. It has sadly become a less-friendly, and in certain circles (here) an even downright hostile and angry population. Not a great way to go through life ...
ancavker | Aug 21, 2012, 09:30 AM EDT
Dan: I don't hear people saying what he would have done, but rather speculating on what he might have done, had he lived and based on what he had accomplished prior to his death. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and people who enjoy history Irish and otherwise, do that all the time. There is nothing dofferent here with Collins. No need for you to be petty.
DanOLoingsigh | Aug 21, 2012, 06:52 AM EDT
Poor old Mick Collins, everybody tells him what he would have done had he lived...who he'd have shot...or not... would he have changed like his 'alleged' nemesis...how can we know?
Collette2 | Aug 21, 2012, 06:35 AM EDT
Coming from Enda Kelly, as with Mick Collins, he had the balls to take things face on, including the Vatican on Kelly's watch.
barneyjo | Aug 21, 2012, 03:21 AM EDT
@angrypaddy - this is precisely the point I am making; that organs of the Irish State, and those in charge of them were culpable in the creation of circumstances in which the bottom fell out of a large part of the Irish economy. At very least, Collins would have held them to account in the courts, possibly for crimes against the State. However, even Collins would have to recognise the mitagating circumstances in this. And that is the fact that the Irish People per se, literally went off "the edge of the pier" in a collective, indecent rush to wealth, driven by greed, and built on sand. My understanding of Collins would suggest that he would have been prepared to do what was necessary to restore Ireland to its full Sovereign state. However, that does NOT mean that he would have endorsed the view that the "Lunatics who have taken over the asuylum" should be followed blindly!!
angrypaddy | Aug 21, 2012, 01:18 AM EDT
Collins would have had BERTIE,BIFFO,& ENDA shot for financial treason
barneyjo | Aug 20, 2012, 02:35 PM EDT
I agree with the sentiment generally expressed, that Collins at the peak of his powers would never have allowed this to happen in Ireland. Equally though, now that it has, he would have summoned all the powers and resources at his disposal to drag the country back into the "light." He would have NO TIME for the "poor me" brigade; those who go looking for others to blame for their own stupidity, shortsightedness and ultimately greed that has landed them in difficult situations; which would include the political and business classes (so called). He would no doubt tell them, to 1) roll up their sleeves; 2) get on with it; 3) "SHUT THE F**K UP". My view anyway :)
ancavker | Aug 20, 2012, 01:18 PM EDT
What happened to my post? Did I offen someone? I Will shorten it. Fine Gael has no rightful claim to Michael Collins!!!
ancavker | Aug 20, 2012, 11:52 AM EDT
He is the most iconic person in Irish history. And had he lived Ireland would have been a much different and in my mind better place. Instead the lackeys and remanants of the old Irish nationalist party along with the brooding arch conservative De Valera and those that followed him ruined what could have been. Enda Kenny could not shine Michael Collin's boots. Shows you how little the man who is head of Fine Gael, the party that wrongly claims Collin's as their own knows about the man.