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People and Politics by Patrick Roberts

It's time for the St. Pat's standoff to end

Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2011 at 08:40 AM

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When the inclusive Sunnyside Wooside Saint Patrick's Parade stepped off on Skillman Avenue in Queens on Sunday, it was deja vu all over again.

This year, like all the other years before it, the unique parade was one of the most joyous and colorful Saint Patrick's parades in the nation - and one of the most genuinely welcoming.

(The main Saint Patrick's Day parade on Fifth Avenue refuses to let gay Irish parade goers march under their own banners or wear sashes or badges that make it clear they are LGBT).

But that's not an issue in the Sunnyside/Woodside parade. Each year in Queens participants reflecting the full (and often beautiful) diversity of New York City itself come out to march in a parade that has opened its arms to the city in ways the main one on Fifth Avenue never has.

But there's a catch. The truth is there's a certain Groundhog Day feel to both parades now that standoff between them has calcified. And even the dueling organizers must, in their private moments, wonder how long this can go on?

Were we ever any better than this? Weren't we smarter than this once? Is this tense and public standoff really the best we'll ever do?

America used to stand for generosity and tolerance. It used to stand for realism and welcome. But for two decades, on both sides, we've let a small but vocal minority set the agenda for the majority and the result has been division and anger. That kind of absolutism has been a disaster for the nation, for the fabric of Irish America, and for the parade.

Look at Ireland. The nation has enacted full civil unions for its LGBT citizens and now 73 percent of people there are in favor of marriage equality, the highest number ever. Ireland has simply addressed a long standing inequality and moved on.

In the US we've seen the repeal of DADT and the President's decision that DOMA is indefensible. Gay people, it turns out, are not people who know nobody and who nobody knows - they're sons and daughters, sisters and brothers. They aren't an attack on the family - they are family.

So surely, in the new spirit of realism, it is not beyond the invention of the Fifth Avenue parade organizers to craft a tough compromise that will end this very public family squabble once and for all?

In life it's important to know which fights to pick but it's equally as important to know when to bury the hatchet. That time has come for both sides. Both sides have made their point. We are greater together than apart.

And the best and brightest of us know this. This moment calls for real leadership. Now, who among us will be big enough to act?

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DennisQ | Mar 14, 2011, 05:34 PM EDT

AliceL, it sounds like you take issue with Foucault, not with me for mentioning his work. You might want to ground yourself in what he actually has to say rather than my possibly garbled interpretation of it. Read, for example, Foucault's History of Sexuality which is available on Amazon.

I hope you are making a distinction between homosexual acts and homosexual identity - which is what Foucault is getting at. This distinction did not arise until the Industrial Revolution, he says.

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jacersagain | Mar 13, 2011, 01:55 PM EDT

What happened to my response of Mar 11th to DennisQ, which has now been deleted after a day or two on display?

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jacersagain | Mar 11, 2011, 07:27 PM EST

@ballyhip Mar 10 – sure that’s a silly comparison to make! All Irish parades around St. Patrick’s Day are for the Irish to celebrate being Irish, even stage-dressed sillily as a leprechaun or St. Patk hisself, not for hijacking by people with selfish, brassy, garish, gaudy, tawdry outfits depicting their sickening un-natural preferences in a forlorn cause. So, nope, ya don’t win on that, there's no comparison! Slán leat.

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AliceL. | Mar 11, 2011, 02:48 PM EST

Suetonius documented the homosexual behavior of Julius Caesar ("He was every woman's man and every man's woman") and others.

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DennisQ | Mar 11, 2011, 01:41 PM EST

It's possible that St. Patrick never encountered a homosexual in his entire life. The notion of a sexual "orientation" as such didn't arise until much later in history, possibly not until the Industrial Revolution of the 18th and 19th centuries.

What has been called "queer theory," an offshoot of feminist theory, is not mainstream enough to have entereed popular discourse. If it had, the writings of French philosopher Michel Foucault would be more widely known. Foucault is the leading exponent of the idea that "homosexuality" has no history earlier than the 17th Century. It's not simply that there was no word for it; it simply didn't exist. That would explain why Jesus himself never addressed it - and he certainly would have . . . if it existed.

Perhaps the parade itself is an offshoot of the Industrial Revolution. That would make it contemporaneous with the advent of homosexuality. Thus it might be argued in Foucaultian terms that homosexuals marched ab initio in the St. Patrick's Day Parade; in fact that homosexuals were among the parade's founders.

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AliceL. | Mar 11, 2011, 01:32 PM EST

Eiramach, this parade is a farce much like the Village Halloween party.

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eiriamach | Mar 11, 2011, 12:33 PM EST

AliceL, I'm not a parade insider, so I cannot claim to know, but I am willing to bet you dollars to doughnuts that the Queens Parade committee invited ALL the politicians in the area. Only the liberal politicians accepted the invitation. The conservatives declined because they thought they would lose votes if their voters saw them at a parade that includes LGBTs. I respect the integrity of the politicians who accepted the invitation to march in the Queens parade. And you are still pouring out your hatred for LGBTs and "libs" here. Why? Surely you cannot hope to influence anyone with your rants and your presumptions about the "guy" you think I had sex with "who thinks you are a garbage can or a receptacle for his semen." Fortunately for me, I did not know anyone with that weird a view of sex until I encountered you on IC.

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ballyhip | Mar 10, 2011, 05:02 PM EST

"So why should LGBT people think they have a special right to stand out in the parades in brassy, tawdry displays?" How is one to distinguish them from the "stage Irish" in green wigs or red beards that frequent our parades? Having witnessed parades in Sligo and Dublin, both rather recent events in the provenance of parades, I can ensure you that neither lacks for brassy or tawdry displays. It is the nature of public displays.

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rosieoneill | Mar 10, 2011, 03:33 PM EST

Why not celebrate both parades? I'm sure there's enough green beer to go around.

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AliceL. | Mar 10, 2011, 02:54 PM EST

Eieramach, abortion is not "women's health services". It is the taking of an innocent life. The notorious eugenicist, Margaret Sanger, who supported the Tuskegee experiments and addressed a KKK rally in NJ would be so proud of you! And she was vehemently anti-Catholic - I guess you are also. "Choice" my rear end! You made your choice when you had sex with a guy who thinks you are a garbage can or a receptacle for his semen.

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manhattan | Mar 10, 2011, 01:00 PM EST

olovely you need some anger management help. Your name doesn't fit your rants.

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jamieLM | Mar 10, 2011, 11:35 AM EST

armaghabu - what a stupid remark about a wedding ring meaning that you're straight! Usually a wedding ring means you're legally married, although the absence of a wedding ring doesn't necessarily mean you're not married, either. Do you know that people can be legally married, straight or gay, and choose not to wear their wedding rings for personal reasons? Have you not heard about men & women who were married, wearing wedding rings, who knew they were actually "closet" gays or lesbians? Did you know that there are legally married, or not, gay people who wear wedding rings? We march in a large group, not in pairs. No one knows who belongs with whom unless you know us personally. We don't wave banners with pointing arrows saying, "I'm with him/her." Often we women march in a group in front and the men walk in a group right behind us. We're ALL "invisible" when it comes to sexual preferences. We gay & straight club members want to be identified only as a group who is coming together to celebrate St. Patrick and our common Irish heritage. Gay & straight members have been marching side by side for years without a problem. Btw: our club is open to ANYONE interested in Irish culture and history. Our club's purpose isn't to debate the issues of homosexuality. All of our members just happen to be born in America, including me. So how stupid were your remarks about my post?

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armaghabu | Mar 10, 2011, 11:28 AM EST

The real bigots are the people who insult, belittle, marginalize and condemn everyone unlike themselves, AliceL. Now go have a good look in your mirror because that's what you're doing. And please don't claim to speak for the irish community again, because you weren't appointed to and you're a lone conservative voice in a heavily Democratic borough. I don't claim to speak for the community either, I have more respect for its diversity than you.

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eiriamach | Mar 10, 2011, 11:12 AM EST

AliceL, a young woman who has been raped needs HIV testing, she needs biological evidence of the rape gathered **in a timely way** in order to have a hope of justice in prosecution, and she needs gynecological services and victim counseling, not pro-life counseling. The deceit of the "crisis pregnancy center" is cruel. You do not care about the needs of women. You care about only your anti-woman political agenda.

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eiriamach | Mar 10, 2011, 11:01 AM EST

AliceL, you misquoted me. I wrote that pregnant women need "time-sensitive medical services," NOT "time sensitive information"! Women visit "crisis pregnancy centers" expecting to find gynecologists, obstetricians, and nurse practitioners there. Instead they find extremist ideologues who have not medical services to offer them! Your "crisis pregnancy centers" are a dangerous form of deceit. It's not enough to call this deceit "false advertising" because it does so much harm. It substitutes drivel of the kind you write below for legitimate and needed--often in emergency situations--medical services. Are you simply deluded, or do you really believe that your hatred of women's freedom of choice justifies telling lies to women in need?

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