66 Comments

• Pgk86 | Nov 04, 2012, 09:15 PM EST

  Hmmm, like our founding fathers? You could make the same argument about anyone. Want an example? Go look up Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin or Andrew Jackson. Check out Nelson Mandella's history.

• christinao't | Jun 26, 2012, 08:31 PM EDT

  complete propaganda article... get a clue

• briant11 | Jan 10, 2012, 09:41 PM EST

  What nonsense.De Valera was a democratically elected leader,who put to the people a constitution based on democrayic principles they approved.The comparisdn made is inaccurate ,invidious and insulting.

• sirpeter | Dec 28, 2011, 10:35 PM EST

  supersurvivor77.If this is therapy for you and it make you feel better.Then i guess all Catholics should understand that.Remember you are a victim.But your stupidity has nothing got to do with abuse.CATHOLICABUSESURVIVORSNI.COM does not help your agenda.It tells me you have hurt people because of been abused.That make you as bad as the abuser.Who have also been abused.You didn't survive.You drowned in your own bitterness.Pity.Either you get that or you don't.Let it go!! Let it go!!Let it go!!

• vincentruane | Dec 23, 2011, 12:31 AM EST

  Well thanks Patrick for giving a perfect example of trash journalism. You'll make it into the school books if you keep this up. Comparing Eamon De Valera to an evil communist dictator. You have lost all credibility after this strain of garbage writing.

• sirpeter | Dec 22, 2011, 05:30 PM EST

  Naw!!Georgie Boy.Ireland didn't get much aid at all.I'd say the immigrants got hold of most of it.We didn't need it anyway Georgie.I think you could do with a bit of aid to be honest.You're a bit mental Georgie with you fixation on the immigrants.You need some serious counseling for that.We'll all help you with that Georgie don't worry.

• seanomelbourne | Dec 22, 2011, 05:22 PM EST

  I'll let you in on a secret cillowen the civil war did not start with the Collins who btw was killed in action.

• peglegmeg | Dec 22, 2011, 04:25 PM EST

  Thank you Patrick for this taste of the truth.....Visiting Glasnevin a couple of months ago, I was underwhelmed by his grave, cross and placement...I was overwhelmed by Michael Collins place of honor, the FRESH flowers that covered his grave and the other heroes placement, like Roger Casement......One dead leaf adorned the Devilera's grave, and even it looked uncomfortable......

• seamusryan | Dec 22, 2011, 04:10 PM EST

  Virtually every country has an element of the cult of personality when politics kicks in. Ireland has had a series of them. Comparing de Valera to Kim Jong-il, however, is little more than idiotic.

• GeorgeDillon | Dec 22, 2011, 02:13 PM EST

  cillowen: Do us a favor. Post your garbage once, not in quadruplicate.

• cillowen | Dec 22, 2011, 11:26 AM EST

  I believe Dev was England's Greatest Spy and the accounts given here are but rubbish. The Irish neutrality that served Britain so, was a brilliant hatched move between the troika of DeValera, Churchill and FDR. I also believe Dev set up Michael Collins for the kill and helped trigger the Civil War that had brother fighting brother. Dev's overall primary concern was in securing a homeland for his tribe. He being a lover of Hitler is complete bullcrap - a real bottom of the barrel reach. During WWII footstuff of all kind was flowing to the Saxon occupier as were manpower from every county in ol Erin ferrying back and forth to help the Mother. The natives later would honor near blind Dev with the presidency - the same as they intended doing with Dev's party newcomer Gallagher. Have a great time trying to explain why such benefits accrued to the benevolent Saxons crowd in their time of need. The beat goes on even today -the love and appreciation of knightings bestowed makes em go gaga.

• cillowen | Dec 22, 2011, 11:23 AM EST

  I believe Dev was England's Greatest Spy and the account given here is but rubbish. The Irish neutrality that served Britain so, was a brilliant hatched move between the troika of DeValera, Churchill and FDR. I also believe Dev set up Michael Collins for the kill and helped trigger the Civil War that had brother fighting brother. Dev's overall primary concern was in securing a homeland for his tribe. He being a lover of Hitler is complete bullcrap - a real bottom of the barrel reach. During WWII footstuff of all kind was flowing to the Saxon occupier as were manpower from every county in ol Erin ferrying back and forth to help the Mother. The natives later would honor near blind Dev with the presidency - the same as they intended doing with Dev's party newcomer Gallagher. Have a great time trying to explain why such benefits accrued to the benevolent Saxons crowd in their time of need. The beat goes on even today -the love and appreciation of knightings bestowed makes em go gaga.

• cillowen | Dec 22, 2011, 11:21 AM EST

  I believe Dev was England's Greatest Spy.The Irish neutrality that served Britain so, was a brilliant hatched move between the troika of DeValera, Churchill and FDR. I also believe Dev set up Michael Collins for the kill and helped trigger the Civil War that had brother fighting brother. Dev's overall primary concern was in securing a homeland for his tribe. He being a lover of Hitler is complete bullcrap - a real bottom of the barrel reach. During WWII footstuff of all kind was flowing to the Saxon occupier as were manpower from every county in ol Erin ferrying back and forth to help the Mother. The natives later would honor near blind Dev with the presidency - the same as they intend doing with Dev's party newcomer Gallagher. Have a great time trying to explain why such benefits accrued to the benevolent Saxons crowd in their time of need. The beat goes on even today -the love and appreciation of knightings bestowed makes em go gaga.

• cillowen | Dec 22, 2011, 11:20 AM EST

  I believe Dev was England's Greatest Spy and the account given here is but rubbish. The Irish neutrality that served Britain so, was a brilliant hatched move between the troika of DeValera, Churchill and FDR. I also believe Dev set up Michael Collins for the kill and helped trigger the Civil War that had brother fighting brother. Dev's overall primary concern was in securing a homeland for his tribe. He being a lover of Hitler is complete bullcrap - a real bottom of the barrel reach. During WWII footstuff of all kind was flowing to the Saxon occupier as were manpower from every county in ol Erin ferrying back and forth to help the Mother. The natives later would honor near blind Dev with the presidency - the same as they intend doing with Dev's party newcomer Gallagher. Have a great time trying to explain why such benefits accrued to the benevolent Saxons crowd in their time of need. The beat goes on even today -the love and appreciation of knightings bestowed makes em go gaga.

• GeorgeDillon | Dec 22, 2011, 12:33 AM EST

  Our resident buffoon sirpeter is once again showing us his arrant ignorance. First, he denies historical fact. Ireland did benefit substantially from Marshall Aid. No stupidities from sipeter can change historical reality. I mentioned an entire book on the topic in an earlier post, but I guess sirpeter doesn't do books. He's more a wikipedia type. Second, and this is even more imbecilic, he claims that Ireland didn't need aid after WW2. Are you crazy, man? Ireland was subsisting. It had no industries worth talking about, no exports other than cattle, and once emigration recommenced thousands streamed out every month. Its trains ran at a top speed of maybe 15 miles per hour, forced as they were to use turf instead of coal. Back to your roost in the Dunce's Corner, sirpeter, your knowledge of Irish history is shamefully deficient. Did you even get as far as high school?

• sirpeter | Dec 21, 2011, 05:08 PM EST

  Scotchtommy.At that point after the war.The Jews didn't have much power.We didn't need aid.Not comparing to war torn Europe.(Ireland,the Sterling Area and the European Recovery Program, 1947 – 1948)Georgie boy is talking through his behind as usual.Seriously it was nothing to do with Dev.

• sirpeter | Dec 21, 2011, 04:58 PM EST

  Scotchtommy.I know you never said Dev was Anti Semitic.I know you didn't mean to imply that.I'll tell you why we got peanuts.Irish GNP per capita in 1947/1948 was more than 3 times the level in Greece, 2.5 times the level in Italy and Austria and substantially higher than in Denmark, Germany,and the Netherlands.Therefore, Whitaker’s memorandum hardly provided a convincing case for Ireland in receiving aid.Also Ireland was the second best fed Country in Europe after Denmark.It was nothing got to do with Dev. receiving additional Marshall aid.

• Scotchtommy | Dec 21, 2011, 02:46 PM EST

  Sirpeter ,George Dillon et al.Guys -you're missing the point .I never said for a moment that De Valera was inherently Anti Semitic.Sure he enshrined all the religious freedoms for everybody in the Irish Constitution.Great.Terrific.Wonderful.But then (AFTER the gas chambers, the death camps, the loathsome horrors of Nazism become known)he does the dumbest thing he ever did in his life and expresses his condolences on the death of the man WHO CARRIED OUT these atrocities.Forget the Brits.If you were a Jew in those days what would you think of a man like that.By the way -check out how much Marshall Aid Ireland received.Compared with Britain,Fascist Spain, Germany, Italy, Japan etc..Ireland got peanuts.Why?Dev's condolenses?

• ancavker | Dec 21, 2011, 01:27 PM EST

  Sorry should have said De Valera was in agreement with the treaty except for the oath issue.

• ancavker | Dec 21, 2011, 01:26 PM EST

  Perhaps people should study the man more, and the time he lived in before tearing the man apart. Oh and to the poster who claimed he eventually signed the treaty, what is that all about. He never signed the treaty, although he was in basic agreement with it except for the issue. That is the problem with mathematic centered people (as was De Valera) it was either plus or minus, he could not think outside of the box. However, this blame that he gets for starting the civil war is simply wrong. He was just the face of the opposition. And while I sympathize with the anti- treaty side, not accepting the treaty turned out to be disastrous. The British were going to give no more at this point, and the one key issue that Collins got reluctantly from Churchill was fiscal independence, this in fact meant real Independence, not the Home Rule talk shop that so many revisionists now say Ireland would have gotten had they just behaved themselves, and not fought for independence.

• sirpeter | Dec 21, 2011, 10:28 AM EST

  @Scotchtommy.To understand Dev,a person really has to study the guy.He was pretty complex.During the 1930s, de Valera had systematically stripped down the Irish Free State constitution.He was the first to specifically enshrine in any nations constitution the protection and right of Jewish congregations.He didn't just say freedom of all religions.That was very important considering for centuries the Jews were getting a hard time everywhere including the U.S.A.This was Dev giving Hitler and Germany the two fingers in 1937.How many people know about that? The Brits put Dev under fierce pressure to enter the war and in my reckoning giving the Brits the finger by giving his condolences to the German Minister in Dublin was his way of saying.We are now a sovereign nation and ye couldn't bully us into the war.Devs plan was to try and make Ireland totally self-sufficient.That was stupid in my opinion.But showing the world Irish sovereignty was everything to him and to hell with the Marshall Plan.He was not a Nazi sympathizer or anti-semitic.He was cutting the ties with England.With history the mistake a lot of people make in understanding historic motives is they apply modern ways of thinking to an era that was totally different and had different mindsets and laws.

• GeorgeDillon | Dec 21, 2011, 09:42 AM EST

  I have no interest or time to refute the claptrap posted here about De Valera. I will just make two points. 1/ Those who attack Dev's relationship with the Catholic Church show utter ignorance of the history of his times. Cumann na nGaedhal, later to join with Irish fascists to become Fine Gael, were 100 times more conservative and obsequious to the Catholic Church than was De Valera. 2/ De Valera's role in the Irish Civil War was quite marginal. The Civil War was instigated by forces that later came to form Cumann na nGaedhal, probably on the prompting of the British. They were certainly armed by them, and relied on thousands of ex-British Army soldiers. Dev had little role in the opposition to these traitors. It is perhaps the proudest boast that I can make about my Irish heritage that my ancestors in both the Dublin Brigade and one of the Cork Brigades stood by their oath to an Irish Republic and with thousands of others loyal to the republic were forced into exile when the reactionaries proved victorious.

• GeorgeDillon | Dec 21, 2011, 09:29 AM EST

  This site appears to attract more ignoramuses per inch than even sirpeter's homepage. Perhaps fittingly, an idiotic article about De Valera has been met by idiotic responses. A poster calling himself Scotchtommy tells us that De Valera antagonized American Jews (wouldn't be the last Irish leader to do so) so much that Ireland was denied aid under the Marshall Plan. You're an utter idiot, scotchtommy! Ireland received substantial aid under the Marshall plan. In fact a woman called Bernadette Whelan wrote a full book about the subject a few years back! And no, she didn't write 200 pages about aid Ireland did NOT receive. Why do people post from utter ignorance? It wastes the time of those few of us here who know what we are talking about.

• KingPuk | Dec 21, 2011, 08:48 AM EST

  I think you ran out of things to say PR. Dev has done more for Ireland than ppl realize. Kim starved millions to death and is still doing so after decades of isolation & the threat of war. Anybody who knows Irish history, knows that the above article is w&nk.

• IrelandNorth | Dec 21, 2011, 08:26 AM EST

  This headline stretches credulity. Neither Kim Il Sung or his son, Kim Jong Ill had the arm of a megalomaniacal Roman Catholic Archibishop up their a[r]ss[e]s, like quasi-theocratic ventriloquists dummies. Even if North Korean state capitalism (masquerading as communism), is uncannily like RC.

• seanomelbourne | Dec 20, 2011, 07:53 PM EST

  Billie061 I fail to understand your post, Dev had no jurisdtiction in the north of Ireland and Harry boland was shot in bed(in Skerries by collins assassins)My father was incarcerated in Arbour Hill (1936) and the Curragh(1941) by Dev.He did not have much time for Dev or Collins.RE your last line Sirpeter the victor wins the revisionst war.

• sirpeter | Dec 20, 2011, 06:56 PM EST

  What annoys me about this site is that the articles are so shallow and inflammatory.That you can never discuss the detail.Because in Irish history the devil is in the detail.It's like saying because of the failure of the potato a million Irish people died.While that's partly true.We know the failure of the potato did not cause famine.Because the definition of the word famine is the general scarcity of food to which there was none.

• sirpeter | Dec 20, 2011, 06:41 PM EST

  @ancavker.I agree he should have excepted the treaty.I also agree the oath was a big obstacle to agreeing to take the treaty.But that was a sign of the times.Even if he was pro-treaty I'd say the die hards would have still went ahead.

• Scotchtommy | Dec 20, 2011, 05:46 PM EST

  Hi sirpeter.Dev may have thought it was to us Brits he was giving the finger - and who can blame him- we sure as hell deserved it.But it was the Jewish people whom he was sticking it to.Remember this was after years of Nazi persecution culminating in the recently liberated death camps.The Jewish community worldwide(and especially in the US) went ape at Dev''s behaviour.I've spoken over the years to elderly American, British and European Jews and the kindest thing they call him is "Nazi b-----d".On a practical note it allegedly cost Ireland any Marshall Aid from the US - again allegedly due to the fury of the US Jewish lobby.I respect the man as a great leader but on this time he blew it.

• Scotchtommy | Dec 20, 2011, 05:10 PM EST

  Hi Sirpeter- Dev may have thought he was giving the finger to us Brits by offering Ireland's condolences on the death of Hitler.As a Brit I have no problem with that -we surely deserved it BUT the people to whom he was giving the finger was the Jewish (esp American) community .And they went berserk (remember this was just after the death camps were liberated).I've spoken to elderly British,American and European Jews who froth with rage at the mention of his name- "Nazi b------d is the mildest epithet.And on a practical note how much did it cost Ireland in being refused any major Marshall Aid from the US- allegedly because of the US Jewish lobby.I respect the man as a great leader but in this case he really blew it.

• MarkMary73 | Dec 20, 2011, 04:59 PM EST

  I agree that the DeValera/Franco comparison is more apt. History records the terrible waste caused by DeValers's refusal to sign the Treaty (and sign he did anyway, but only after a needless and brutal (are there any other kind?)civil war. Beyond that monumental mistake,however, is the terrible loss of opportunity that Ireland could and should have embraced caused by DeValera's inability/refusal to move Ireland from third world status, exacerbated by his wrong-headed embrace of the Roman Catholic church. "Dev" should have stayed in New York and the Irish people would have been infinitely better served by Mick Collins. Ah, Mick, we hardly knew ye.

• PhlutiePhan | Dec 20, 2011, 03:47 PM EST

  I would say that DeValera had parallels to Franco of Spain. It is a misnomer to equate one who is overly religious to one who was atheistically persecuting religious belief. You say that the boats left Ireland. There are walls up in North Korea to keep the inmates in the asylum. So indeed, you believe that religion is a cult. I thought that St. Patrick ran all of the snakes out of Ireland.

• ciaradexy | Dec 20, 2011, 03:24 PM EST

  Big difference was that Kim Jong was loved by his people but the name Dev is said with venom here.

• ancavker | Dec 20, 2011, 03:03 PM EST

  sirpeter: Some valid points, but De Valera made a huge mistake in not accepting the treaty, for a number of reasons. It was not because of partition, or the ports. Partition was assumed to be temporary. It was over the oath of allegiance. He would not take the oath to the King, but would take it to the King as head of the commonwealth, a very fine point, and one not worth the bloodshed of the civil war. De Valera gets the blame for the civil war which is not correct, he was only the face of the opposition, but the die hards, Barry, Lynch, Childers, O'Malley, they would never accept the treaty as it went against the oath they took to the Republic.

• nosoupforU | Dec 20, 2011, 01:52 PM EST

  sirpeter and Georgedillion thank you. This guy Patrick Roberts looks middle aged so he should know better, he is either a provocateur or dummer than a rock.

• sirpeter | Dec 20, 2011, 12:10 PM EST

  This article is an insult to the Irish nation and Irish people everywhere.To say the Irish nation shed crocodile tears on his passing is a damned lie.He was willing to give up his life for Irish sovereignty against overwhelming odds.Both sides of the Irish civil war respected the civilian population.The pro-treaty forces may have suffered between 540–800 fatalities,and the anti-treaty forces appear to have received considerably heavier losses. There is, as yet, no figure for civilian deaths. A minimum figure of 1,000 and a maximum figure of 4,000 deaths(including BOTH combatant sides and civilians) have been suggested.Leaders on both sides knew pain and were unwilling to inflict all out war on each other and the Irish people for power.Dev was a strong leader in difficult times,he had his faults but he was no Kim Yung Il.Irish people everywhere should hang their heads in shame that IC should make such a comparison.Unending criticism of the Catholic Church without a balanced approach will not wash with me and plenty others.

• sirpeter | Dec 20, 2011, 10:56 AM EST

  Dev was taken to Ireland when he was two.He fought in the War of Independence and would have been shot only for the fact he was American born.The Brits at the time were trying to get America into the war.That saved his life.As a young Gaeilgeoir (Irish speaker),he became an activist for the language.He was anti-treaty which is very understandable at the time having to take an oath to the King of England or any oath was seen as something very serious.The 1937 constitution contained a number of reforms and symbols intended to assert Irish sovereignty.In other words Ireland DID NOT have FULL independence.(Treaty Ports,Northern Ireland,Unionist's,Irish Gombeens & West Brits,all looking to sell Irish sovereignty for a quick buck and lead the Irish people into WW2.A war where the Irish people didn't have the means to protect themselves.A continuance of war created by powerful European nations all down through history.Dev said to hell with that and rightly so despite pressure from Chamberlain and Churchill.Only a fool peasant would think war is about freedom when it's about dominance and holding onto power.De Valera formally offering his condolences to the German Minister in Dublin was the biggest two fingered salute that Ireland gave to England.A GREAT DAYS WORK.These same Unionist's,Irish Gombeens & West Brits have sold what De Valera fought for so long.Break the power of the special position of the Catholic Church in Ireland and we can take the power from the Irish people for German gold this time.Anglo Irish bank now known as the worst bank in the world.The clue is in the name.Dev would have made short work of that bank.Believe me it all fits together.

• sirpeter | Dec 20, 2011, 10:34 AM EST

  Mr. Roberts, as I firmly believe that no rational person would make such a ludicrous comparison, I must believe that you are being deliberately provocative in order to generate commentary. I am surprised that so few have challenged you, preferring, instead, to beat up on old Dev. I was never a Dev supporter but he was no Kim Jong Il. To say otherwise is both wrong-headed and offensive.

• ancavker | Dec 20, 2011, 09:54 AM EST

  ciara: Dev was accepted as an Irishman, he was born in America but came to live in Ireland at age THREE!!!! He was no more American than Michael Collins was. And yes the fact that he was a bastard, and the Spanish father story was most likely a myth, deeply affected the man, and he resented Collins who came from a large and loving family. As far as his passport saving him, that is another myth. Read Ferriter's book it is all documented in there.

• Sheilah | Dec 20, 2011, 09:37 AM EST

  Donkey dust. Ludicrous analogy.

• billie061 | Dec 20, 2011, 07:24 AM EST

  My Grandfather hated Dev with a passion, he was a big fan of collins. He was hiding out in Brittas Co. Dublin and was betrayed by Harry Boland. Dev had him imprisoned up the North for 2 years, I still have the crafts he made while in prison and the flag that draped his coffin. He died in 1969 I was 8 years old we lived beside the cemetry and I can remember hearing the gun salute not realsing who it was for. Anyone want to know about Dev read the book about the secret spy he was no Irish man.

• aronrona | Dec 20, 2011, 07:15 AM EST

  1 million people emigrated during his disastrous 30 years of running the economy into the ground.Some things never change.Expect a similar number to emigrate from the failed 26 counties by 2040.Fianna Failed.

• CaptainCon | Dec 20, 2011, 05:18 AM EST

  I remain convinced that De Valera's main motivation in life was firstly as a psychological 'outsider' mainly because he felt very deeply his social status as a 'bastard' which in his era closed off a lot of social advances to a man. I think this also explains his abdication of social control to the church which was the only organisation in his mind who could regularise his status by pronouncing him legitimised- people forget that the catholic church had that power. I'm convinced this is the unspoken dynamic between him and the vile madman John Charles McQuaid. I agree with other posters that it is deeply regrettable that Michael Collins didn't put a bullet in De Valera when he had the chance.

• seanomelbourne | Dec 19, 2011, 05:43 PM EST

  Patrick!! You are over reacting your analogy of Kim/Dev is ridiculous to say the least.As one who lived in Ireland during the 40's,50's and 60's, I remember the pro and anti Dev discussions. Dev was an elected prime minister more than you can say for Kim.You may as well throw John Kennedy into the mix,the outpouring of grief after his assassination was maudling. Kennedy who conducted covert wars in Vietnam,Iran,central and south America was closer to Kim than Dev.BTW I agree with your assessment of Dev re the church and he certainly had a great propoganda machine led by the "Irish Independent" he just about owned its ediotorial staff.

• ciaradexy | Dec 19, 2011, 04:57 PM EST

  GeorgeDillon, Dev has never been accepted here as an Irish man because he wasnt. Born in the US and there till he was 3! It is widely accepted here that he was american. It was his US passport that prevented him being executed by the British troops.

• ancavker | Dec 19, 2011, 04:49 PM EST

  phrin: Churchill never offered De Valera a united Ireland. What he offered was that he would encourage the unionists to come into a united Ireland, but that they would not be forced. It was of course going to be done after the war ended. It was in the end an empty meaningless gesture, with no guarantee whatsoever of a united Ireland. If he was sincere he would at least as a gesture turned over Fermanagh and Tyrone to the Irish Free State like should have occurred during the boundary commission negogoations.

• LoyalCitizen | Dec 19, 2011, 04:40 PM EST

  Ireland has never had democracy because of using opinions in law.........Opinions hide the details of any given situation and keeping people in ignorance will always take away the choice.

• SeamusMor | Dec 19, 2011, 03:59 PM EST

  Poor analogy.

• cillowen | Dec 19, 2011, 03:09 PM EST

  Dev was England's Greatest Spy his focus was in securing a homeland for his father's tribe. He set Collins up for the kill - 33 year old Collins he sent to negotiate while he set off for the place of his birth. His tribe were the first to make me aware of him being a brother superior.

• sirpeter | Dec 19, 2011, 03:09 PM EST

  Stupid analogy. The End.

• GeorgeDillon | Dec 19, 2011, 02:46 PM EST

  ciaradexy: "No one is proud of Dev here probably because he was a foreigner". How was he a foreigner, you idiot? His mother was Irish, and he came to live in Ireland at age three. What stupid bigotry. I suppose you hate James Connolly because he was a "foreigner" also. There's no fool as stupid as an Irish fool, and we see evidence of that every day here.

• GeorgeDillon | Dec 19, 2011, 02:43 PM EST

  Congratulations, Roberts, you have now written the stupidest article I've ever seen published on Irish Central. Yes, you've had a lot of competition, but you've blown all others away. I used to think you were a simpleton, now I see you're a bigoted imbecile. I wouldn't even bother refuting the hate-filled claptrap you post above.

• ciaradexy | Dec 19, 2011, 02:27 PM EST

  Who said they are glad Collins is dead? And infairness, its 2011, he'd be dead anyway. No one is proud of Dev here probably because he was a foreigner and he was always looked on as a foreigner whereas Collins was an irish as they come. Did a Collins tour of West Cork a few weeks back. He is adored.

• Phrinchas | Dec 19, 2011, 02:15 PM EST

  De Valera was about two things: his own ego and political power - these above all else. He had not the charisma nor the abilities of Michael Collins. few people know that he was offered control of Northern Ireland by Churchill during the war and refused fearing he might lose election because of the votes from Northern Ireland. At best De Valera was a weak, vain, jealous politician. While he was no Korean dictator he was the straw man of Irish politics whose over inflated reputation distracted people from the real patriots who gave their best in Her cause. As an aside: for those who say that they are glad that Michael Collins is dead - get a grip and inform yourself so you can take a more balanced view of him - with his faults Ireland still would have been better off with him than with De Valera.

• Caoimhin1937 | Dec 19, 2011, 02:08 PM EST

  DeValera was a big SOB. He had his buddy Harry Boland take care of the execution of Kerrans and O'Neill. We used to have the Kerrans O'Neill Club in Chicago.

• RedBranch | Dec 19, 2011, 01:14 PM EST

  There are no streets, avenues, boulevards allyways named after DeValera in Dublin! Why so?

• ciaradexy | Dec 19, 2011, 12:34 PM EST

  Joemccullough-I agree completely. He created that twee vision of Ireland that Americans seem to think still exists. Pity Collins didnt get him shot first.

• IAPRINCESS | Dec 19, 2011, 11:49 AM EST

  Well then, THANK GOD THEY ARE BOTH DEAD!!

• joemccullough | Dec 19, 2011, 11:48 AM EST

  Not sure about the Kim connection but the assessment of De Valera was pretty dead on particularly the issues of clerical abuse. Let's not forget the Magdalene laundries.

• michaelidaho | Dec 19, 2011, 11:40 AM EST

  Very weak analogy. Big difference between North Korea and Ireland. Elections and change of leadership. However, I am even more confused about the emigrants from N. Korea comparison. A better article might have been a comparison between the repressive societies of RCC Ireland and N. Korea. However, that would be a stretch as well.

• slainte9 | Dec 19, 2011, 10:39 AM EST

  "De Valera attended meetings of the League of Nations. He was president of the Council of the League on his first appearance at Geneva in 1932 and, in a speech that made a worldwide impression, appealed for genuine adherence by its members to the principles of the Covenant of the league. In 1934, he supported the admission of the Soviet Union into the League. In September 1938 he was elected nineteenth president of the Assembly of the League, a tribute to the international recognition he had won by his independent stance on world questions." "In 1966, the Dublin Jewish community arranged the planting and dedication of the Éamon de Valera Forest in Israel, near Nazareth, in recognition of his consistent support for Ireland's Jews." Kim Yung? Simplistic remarks from a simpleton.

• joycean | Dec 19, 2011, 10:19 AM EST

  Did he have thousands of goose-stepping soldiers and try to develop nuclear weapons to annihilate his neigbors while allowing his own people to starve?

• Murph46 | Dec 19, 2011, 10:12 AM EST

  You are so right-they are both dead!

• ancavker | Dec 19, 2011, 10:10 AM EST

  I am no fan of De Valera, but for a more balanced or nuanced look at his life, I suggest you read the book published a few years ago by Dermot Ferriter. As far as the church he had numerous battles in private with them, and refused to declare Ireland a Catholic state as the bishops demanded in his 1937 constitution. One further point De Valera represented the Catholic mentality at that time in Ireland. The Irish people's first loyalty was to the Church. If the Bishops toled them to jump, they asked how high. The real revolutionaries who would have stood up to the Bishops even at the risk of alienating the Irish people were dead, Collins, Griffith, Brugha, Childers, and so many more. The crowd that took over Cosgrave, O Higgins, and then De Valera were died in the wool conservatives etc. Cosgrave gets so much credit for establishing the functioning of the Free State, when all he really did was replace the British run system with Irish people running them. The Sinn Fein courts were abolished, and all the British apparatus was kept in place.

• CitizenWhy | Dec 19, 2011, 09:44 AM EST

  For political and personal reasons I have never liked, but could partially respect DeValera. He was not the funding figure the Irtish Republic needed. He was vain, sneaky, amoral in many ways, too pious altogether, and self-aggrandizing but he was no monster on the world scale of monsters. He actually had some good points. I'll leave it to others to detail them.

• CaptainCon | Dec 19, 2011, 07:59 AM EST

  Well said. Not only that but De Valera was the first to usher in the culture of crookedness and corrupt patronage with Fianna Fail. Of interest to Irish America would be his operation with the Irish Free Press when he sold shares to Irish Americans who wanted to show support for Ireland and he basically ripped them off in Ireland's first but not last Fianna Fail ponzi scheme. I've always been suspicious of the stories of him escaping a maximum security prison relatively easily and I have heard disquieting talk of a Crown Pension he had- I don't know how true that last is but if it is true that would put another piece of a very suspicious jigsaw puzzle in place. He made far too many accomodations with the forces both internal and external that were repressive in Ireland for my liking and I think there was more to De Valera than met the eye. His being in thrall to the Catholic Church I suspect because he was crawling to be pronounced 'legitimate' as he was sensitive over his somewhat disputed background. The church via McQuaid dangled this possibility in order to manage him I suspect which is why he abdicated social control to that insane organisation.