People and Politics


Home Page > Blogs > News blogs > People and Politics > Catholic Church and Archbishop Dolan lose out badly in New York gay marriage defeat
People and Politics by Patrick Roberts

Catholic Church and Archbishop Dolan lose out badly in New York gay marriage defeat

Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 at 01:40 AM
print this article Print
email this articleE-mail
comment on article 71 Comments
 

RSS


Recent Posts

Archives

submit to reddit



The vote for gay marriage is a major setback for Archbishop Timothy Dolan and the Catholic Church in New York which fought the legislation tooth and nail.

However, it is clear that the church power has waned in the aftermath of the pedophile sex scandals which have plagued the church in recent years.

Until quite recently a 'belt of the crozier' from the Catholic church would have stopped any such gay marriage bill in its tracks, especially one actively promoted by a Catholic governor.

Not any more and the church now looks exposed because of its opposition and its failure to turn the tide,

Dolan and another leading Irish American, Michael Long of the Conservative Party, made last ditch efforts to overturn the legislation which passed 33-29 with four Republican votes.It was signed into law by Governor Andre Cuomo.

Afterwards the church issued a statement which read;

"We strongly uphold the Catholic Church's clear teaching that we always treat our homosexual brothers and sisters with respect, dignity and love. But we just as strongly affirm that marriage is the joining of one man and one woman in a lifelong, loving union that is open to children, ordered for the good of those children and the spouses themselves.

This definition cannot change, though we realize that our beliefs about the nature of marriage will continue to be ridiculed, and that some will even now attempt to enact government sanctions against churches and religious organizations that preach these timeless truths."

Regardless of the statement the church has been comprehensively defeated on one of their signature issues. The four Republican senators, two of them Catholic, who voted for the bill and the Senate leader Senator Dean Skelos who allowed the vote have made clear that it was a personal decision and they refused to be swayed by the Church lobbying.


print this article Print
email this articleE-mail

71 comments

Next Previous Page 3 of 5 pages
Chiefjustice | Jun 25, 2011, 05:05 PM EDT
In New York State..A judge may charge $100.00 travel and expencesi.e. Dinner and drinks ECT.to do a wedding.. Could be a windfall for those who wish to do the extra work

Report abuse

tempranillo | Jun 25, 2011, 04:51 PM EDT
What was passed last evening? my understanding is that the civil contract known as marriage was de-genderized; and, that, as a result, gays are extended the same contactual rights as heteros. civil marriage is not a sacrament, as I understand the teachings; so, in some sense, the church is meddling in a civil matter. is it really so terrible for an estate to automatically pass to a 'spouse?' or, for a gay partner [i don't know what to call married gay folk, so i use partner..in time, i'll get with it] to have hospital visitation rights, medical benefits, et cetera? i guess it is terrible, from a roman catholic perspective. why? perhaps because it institutionalizes the near occasion of sin. perhaps there are other reasons--for me, this is no big deal

Report abuse

CitizenWhy | Jun 25, 2011, 04:09 PM EDT
We are all, straight and gay, full citizens once again, at least in New York State.

Report abuse

Woodman | Jun 25, 2011, 03:30 PM EDT
This will be another ride in the Disneyland for the lawyers and bureaucrats. You just can't yet imagine all the ways you've discriminated against the poor downtrodden homosexual. Your children will will need to be reeducated and it's gonna cost you plenty. The real winners were the people who already left New York State. The worst is not yet over.

Report abuse

casualMBA | Jun 25, 2011, 03:11 PM EDT
Why< I must ask, is the heirarchy of the Chrurch out front on this issue, to the point it feels itself vulnerable to "government sanctions?" Is it to distract from its recent scandal? I doubt it. Ill advised public relations at best. Where is its assertive (or is the Church always to be on the defensive?) improved interpretations of "life issues?"- - they (in viteros, Petri dishes, the works) are coming, you know. Ignoring them (as in empty pews) will not make them go away. And what of the hetero marriages "ordered for the good of those children and the spouses themselves?" WHy is the heirarchy not getting out front on re-interpreting the "natural law" that had AVERAGE LIFESPANS of LESS than forty (40)years of age - not forty years of marriage (God Bless each and every couple able to reach it today)- for the bride and groom at Cana? The heirarchy is expending its prestige in attempts to constrain gay relationships from attaining the status of marriage, when the status of hetero marriage itself is afflicted (when entered into, apparently, given every third Irish child is born "out of wedlock") with continual modern world attrition. Ignoring this attrition will not solve the Church's exclusionary (rather than inclusive) policy toward casualties. Here the heirarchy needs to spend its energies.

Report abuse

Gearoid4 | Jun 25, 2011, 03:01 PM EDT
Lokionline, your indiscriminate throwing of words like 'fundamentalist' at people you don't agree with is revealing in terms of your mindset. You ridiculously seem to be putting the present pope and his Blessed predecessor into the same bag as the fanatical zealots who planned and executed the 09/11 attacks. You seem to think the Church should succumb to the relativist, 'anything goes' mentality of post-modernism and jettison the teachings of Christ in the process. This ain't going to happen as the present pope steadies the barque of Peter in the stormy seas.

Report abuse

BishopSean | Jun 25, 2011, 02:57 PM EDT
Hi, SCVMalcolm. Thank you for contributing to the dialogue. Jesus also said nothing about wife-beating or Roman killings of Jews. Does that means Jesus' condoned such behaviours? The argument from silence is not so strong. About 50% of marriages ending in divorce, fortunately there are now better statistics. The 50% rate was arrived at by comparing the number of marriages per years vs. number of divorces per year. But it was flawed because divorces are from people who married over a 30 year span. Better statistics show now that the true figure is more like 10%--without serial divorcers, the statistic would be lower. At least we all recognize (agreeing with Jesus) that paedophilia is immoral--except perhaps for NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). But then again, a number of liberals would like to lower the age of consent.... BTW, Deuteronomy gives a classification from most to less serious sexual sins and homosexuality appears near the top, after beastiality. In my view, homosexuality is a trap of the devil and Satan pushes here too his agenda by conflating the gay argument with one of liberation and equality.

Report abuse

lokionline | Jun 25, 2011, 02:52 PM EDT
History of man is some 4 million or more years old. The Catholic church, which was actually really born in the 300s, is a mere moment in this history and a tangential moment at that. It is simply bullshit to claim because Constantine decided to allow Christianity to become the Roman state religion, that this somehow makes the Catholic church ancient and all seeing. A much more realistic future for this upstart ideology is that it's influence will continue to fade. That has certainly been the evidence in my lifetime...

Report abuse

SeamusMor | Jun 25, 2011, 02:33 PM EDT
The Catholic Church is 2000 years old. In another 2000 years, God willing, it will be 4000 years old. The recent horrific scandals and apparent loss of influence will be but footnotes in an otherwise glorious history of bringing the message of the gospels to all of humanity; a "speed bump" on the path to salvation.

Report abuse

SCVMal | Jun 25, 2011, 02:25 PM EDT
Bishop Sean, You want to Bible duel? Re. the Priests who raped the young girls and boys and the complicit Bishops who protected the Priestly perverts, Jesus said: "It would be better for you if a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble. BE on your guard!" By the way, Jesus said absolutely NOTHING about homosexuality. Since there are only at most, 7 references to homosexual behavior in the Bible, and over 500 references to heterosexual behavior, I think it means that God figures that straights require more supervision.

Report abuse

SCVMal | Jun 25, 2011, 02:11 PM EDT
When I quietly and honestly think about the question: "Which country would Jesus bomb?", I can only come up with one answer: The Vatican.

Report abuse

SCVMal | Jun 25, 2011, 02:09 PM EDT
Father Vohl & Bishop Sean (especially!) Ignorance is a choice! Sexuality is a gift from Creator God and each of us has a personal responsibility to use in a positive and ethical way these precious and special gifts of the Creator. It IS the Church who should be suffering for allowing the raping and physical/emotional/spiritual abuse of children to continue for so long and for permitting complicit Bishops to go unpunished. If, "B.S.", gays did this, then how do explain the high number of girls who were raped? Your data is flawed to mask your bigotry. For the first time that the Vatican publicly admitted there are gay priests, it said gay priests are the pedophiles! FACT: 95% of pedophiles are heterosexual and 5% of that number are women! And Bishop you state lies as truth and do not cite your sources. Why are more than 50% of U.S. marriages (THAT's hetero, ones, Sire) end in divorce? In the short period that the state of CA permitted those 18,000 couples to wed legally, the ratio of divorces to marriages declined substantially! Then they do a search of seminaries to uncover (pun intended) the gay priests. How many priests and Nuns has the Vatican hounded, harassed, abused and defrocked because of the calling of the Holy Spirit to spiritually minister to people who happen to be gay/lesbian? What about the recently mandated Vatican "census" of women religious Orders in the U.S.? (Which thank GOD, most religious orders ignored.) what about the poor youth who are struggling with their sexuality, are still "virgins" and they have to deal with the way representatives of the Church say about them and the names they are called? What about the parents of these children whom Benedict (THE most homophobic Pope in history) puts between the love of their gay child and the love/acceptance of their Church/God? Your statements about domestic violence and People with AIDS are plain BULLSHIT and reek with bigotry. May God have mercy on your soul, B.S.!

Report abuse

KateyMc | Jun 25, 2011, 01:41 PM EDT
The Archbishop should quit worrying about Gay marriage & put his energy into cleaning up his own houseful of scandals. Maybe someone should explain to him what "zero tolerance" really means....

Report abuse

BishopSean | Jun 25, 2011, 01:05 PM EDT
Dear Butlerreport, allow me to say I agree that the Church has no business in civil matters--but all Christians must "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's." As a republic, the people of the USA (85% of whom are Christian) have a responsibility to vote for and have elected congresspersons legislate for the common good. The USA's moral philosophy that undergirds the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution is Judeo-Christian moral philosophy and this gave the USA the greatest freedoms and prosperity of any nation in history. Now in this time of secular humanism/postmodern irrationality, truth and morality are relative. So, whose morality--your, mine, or? Our best bet is staying true to the course set out by the Founding Fathers. Even Jefferson, a Deist in later years, knew that Christianity has the greatest moral code existant and he insisted Christian morality be taught in public schools.In NY, the gay community won a battle, but is it worth it when one considers facts such as high percentage of gays who are HIV/AIDS positive as compared to general population? What about highest incidences of domestic violence in gay and lesbian families? And, concerning R. Catholic clergy paedophiles, is it not true that over 80% were homosexual adults on boys? One in 3 arrests in USA for paedophilia are adult males on boys/teens, whilest gays are only 3% of population. Go figure....

Report abuse

lokionline | Jun 25, 2011, 01:02 PM EDT
A harsh spotlight has been shone on the religiously motivated of any stripe since a few fundamentalist (Wahabist)inspired Muslims flew those planes into the Towers. Most of us in N. America didn't even know what a Wahabist, or a Sunni or a Shiite was prior to this century. We do now!!! We have watched bemused as religious leaders like Dolan have emerged which suggested that the religious among us are doubling down on conservatism and fundamentalism which is the reason those planes were hijacked and all those innocent people died. The spotlight has been particularly harsh the more fundamental a religion appears. As a consequence the light has been bright on the Catholic church which has been lurching toward fundamentalism under Wotyla and Ratzinger. The spotlight has been turned on the Catholic Church bigtime this decade and that light has revealed some ugly truths about this 'sect' which many think is more like a 'cult'. Catholics should not be surprised in the slightest that their leaders are afforded the disrespect we see today. Indeed most of the Catholics I know agree with me that the Catholic Church is being led by a bunch of reactionaries down a narrow and dangerous path. No one is taking the Catholic church seriously when it comes to moral issues these days. The Catholic hierarchy would do us all a big favour if they would go away for a long retreat and think seriously about the disaster they have brought upon their own.

Report abuse

Next Previous Page 3 of 5 pages



the Latest #IRISHTRAVEL


Log into IrishCentral with your Facebook account

or sign-in directly

E-Mail:
Password:
 Remember me Forgot my password
Not a member? Register Now!
print this article Print
email this articleE-mail