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People and Politics by Patrick Roberts

Catholic Church and Archbishop Dolan lose out badly in New York gay marriage defeat

Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 at 01:40 AM

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The vote for gay marriage is a major setback for Archbishop Timothy Dolan and the Catholic Church in New York which fought the legislation tooth and nail.

However, it is clear that the church power has waned in the aftermath of the pedophile sex scandals which have plagued the church in recent years.

Until quite recently a 'belt of the crozier' from the Catholic church would have stopped any such gay marriage bill in its tracks, especially one actively promoted by a Catholic governor.

Not any more and the church now looks exposed because of its opposition and its failure to turn the tide,

Dolan and another leading Irish American, Michael Long of the Conservative Party, made last ditch efforts to overturn the legislation which passed 33-29 with four Republican votes.It was signed into law by Governor Andre Cuomo.

Afterwards the church issued a statement which read;

"We strongly uphold the Catholic Church's clear teaching that we always treat our homosexual brothers and sisters with respect, dignity and love. But we just as strongly affirm that marriage is the joining of one man and one woman in a lifelong, loving union that is open to children, ordered for the good of those children and the spouses themselves.

This definition cannot change, though we realize that our beliefs about the nature of marriage will continue to be ridiculed, and that some will even now attempt to enact government sanctions against churches and religious organizations that preach these timeless truths."

Regardless of the statement the church has been comprehensively defeated on one of their signature issues. The four Republican senators, two of them Catholic, who voted for the bill and the Senate leader Senator Dean Skelos who allowed the vote have made clear that it was a personal decision and they refused to be swayed by the Church lobbying.

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Gearoid4 | Jun 25, 2011, 11:49 PM EDT

Lokioline, there is absolutely no comparison between the perpetrators of the 09/11 atrocities and the positions adopted by the present pope and his predecessor. The latter did not issue death threats via fatwas or extremist followers. The laws of relativity certainly apply to the universe but the Word of God operates in the bible and is not subject to the law of relativity as spouted by modern day liberals. It is unhistorical nonsense to say that the Catholic Church was only founded in the 300's by an act of Emperor Constantine when Jesus clearly gave the keys to Peter (Matthew 16:18) to lead it.

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JimMcGarity | Jun 25, 2011, 11:43 PM EDT

Not the only ones to lose out. The Catholic Church had a lot of pedophile whorking for it, is their a difference in a pedophile and a gay man?

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falconflash | Jun 25, 2011, 11:40 PM EDT

The Cuomos continue their war on the Catholic Church. The Cuomos have always pursued the imposition of abortion, gay adoption and now gay marriage...next will come the lawsuits designed to bankrupt the churches who won't perform the gay marriages.

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olovely | Jun 25, 2011, 11:35 PM EDT

Marriage as a concept predates Christianity by some time I'm afraid. It doesn't belong to any Church.

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Gearoid4 | Jun 25, 2011, 11:32 PM EDT

brian1129, What an idiotic and perverse comment to make and it adds nothing to the debate. Eiriamach, you keep going on about discrimination in relation to religious people trying to deny something that is not available to members of the gay community. You use the bible as a justification for gay marriage on the grounds of inclusion and equality. There are no grounds in the bible for such a distorted use of it.."For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24)

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AengusOg | Jun 25, 2011, 09:21 PM EDT

The essential function of the institution of marriage is communal stability, preserving the family unit as the basic building block of the larger communities. Until gay adoption became permissible, there was no societal need for gay marriage.

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brian1129 | Jun 25, 2011, 07:39 PM EDT

Archbishop Dolan is right - God intends for marriage to be between a man and a woman for the purpose of having children. And these children are to be brought to church for the priests to molest. If we allow gay couples to marry, they might adopt a child from a catholic orphanage, which would mean less children for the priests to have sex with. Marriage is reserved for heterosexuals only; the only acceptable homosexual relationships are those between ordained clergy and unwilling preadolescent boys.

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eiriamach | Jun 25, 2011, 07:28 PM EDT

Discrimination against gays and lesbians on the basis of marriage is now illegal in New York State. The Marriage Equality law was enacted because discrimination is morally wrong. It did not just recently become wrong; it was ALWAYS wrong! New Yorkers finally decided to make it illegal and to stop allowing anyone (except clergy) to do it. My question to all the religious protesters against marriage equality is why, why you do not consider discrimination against gays and lesbians to be immoral? In fact, on a plausible interpretation of the gospels, exclusion is the gravest of sins. It is the most explicit rejection of Jesus' preaching. I've read everything you have to say about "Marriage is historically this or that, ..." etc. But I have not seen even one of you deal with the reality of discrimination (and worse) against LGBTs or with the evil of excluding them from any social institution. I don't need to hear any more about your definitions of marriage; none of that can possibly justify discrimination and exclusion and the damage such behavior does to our communities. Why can't you just say WHY you think heterosexuals are entitled to discriminate against homosexuals? Is it because you needed to use discrimination and the power to exclude as weapons to try to coerce everyone into living according to your rules? And you call that religion?

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lokionline | Jun 25, 2011, 06:55 PM EDT

Gearoid4 - That's how I feel about it. I have no time for your present pope and his Blessed predecessor and I do put them into the same bag as the fanatical zealots who planned and executed the 09/11 attacks. Its a big bag and I put all regligiously motivated thinking into it - not morality, just regigiously inspired thinking. The kind of thinking that leads to the nonsense about "relativisitic" thinking you and Ratzinger spout. That is an intellectually bankrupt position. The universe is a relativistic place or do you take exception with Enstein on this one? Oh! but of course you do... he was jewish right? Not Christian!

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olovely | Jun 25, 2011, 06:26 PM EDT

The real power now is with Wall Street and the gays, bishops and their croziers have themselves to blame for their own arrogant fall.

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mamaginnty | Jun 25, 2011, 06:01 PM EDT

Susanneek, YOU and your followers below are the ones making this a catholic issue. You are "slaves to the Vatican" a surprising quote in " the differance between catholicism and christianity"

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rugbyplayer | Jun 25, 2011, 05:47 PM EDT

Dolan of New York is a windbag and a bad Vatican choice for Archbishop of New York. These once powerful and pompous prelates no longer rule the roost as they once did but perhaps they don't know it yet.The Catholic Church like most other relgions is caught in an inflexible dogmatic time warp which makes progress and democracy impossible.

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Collette2 | Jun 25, 2011, 05:42 PM EDT

Well, look at the mess they made of the lives of Cathlolic parents when they did have the balance of power, crucifing their children under their very nose and the tratment of women with children born out of wedlock. In many instances fathers clergy. The all seeing eye God misses nothng. To be a teacher you first need to be a witness.

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SusanneK | Jun 25, 2011, 05:29 PM EDT

Protestant and other faiths already have gay ministers and congregations. Why do the gays always HAVE to make a Catholic issue out of their homosexuality and lifestyles? They must have had ALOT of $$$$ and political backing in NY on this!!!

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luxefaire | Jun 25, 2011, 05:29 PM EDT

I am beginning to be amused.

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