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People and Politics by Patrick Roberts

Catholic Church and Archbishop Dolan lose out badly in New York gay marriage defeat

Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 at 01:40 AM
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The vote for gay marriage is a major setback for Archbishop Timothy Dolan and the Catholic Church in New York which fought the legislation tooth and nail.

However, it is clear that the church power has waned in the aftermath of the pedophile sex scandals which have plagued the church in recent years.

Until quite recently a 'belt of the crozier' from the Catholic church would have stopped any such gay marriage bill in its tracks, especially one actively promoted by a Catholic governor.

Not any more and the church now looks exposed because of its opposition and its failure to turn the tide,

Dolan and another leading Irish American, Michael Long of the Conservative Party, made last ditch efforts to overturn the legislation which passed 33-29 with four Republican votes.It was signed into law by Governor Andre Cuomo.

Afterwards the church issued a statement which read;

"We strongly uphold the Catholic Church's clear teaching that we always treat our homosexual brothers and sisters with respect, dignity and love. But we just as strongly affirm that marriage is the joining of one man and one woman in a lifelong, loving union that is open to children, ordered for the good of those children and the spouses themselves.

This definition cannot change, though we realize that our beliefs about the nature of marriage will continue to be ridiculed, and that some will even now attempt to enact government sanctions against churches and religious organizations that preach these timeless truths."

Regardless of the statement the church has been comprehensively defeated on one of their signature issues. The four Republican senators, two of them Catholic, who voted for the bill and the Senate leader Senator Dean Skelos who allowed the vote have made clear that it was a personal decision and they refused to be swayed by the Church lobbying.


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71 comments

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barneyjo | Jul 10, 2011, 06:55 AM EDT
I just love the fact that Arch-Bishop Dolan is the latest in a long line of pompus princes of the church that have been humbled by God, and yet they neither feel or show any sense of contrition for their pitiful and failing attempts to denegrate a section of humanity which God called them to love and minister to ( or maybe not!!!!!)

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CitizenWhy | Jun 28, 2011, 10:55 AM EDT
Alicia ... Yes, according to the New York Times a group of libertarian Wall Street Republican bankers and big donors decided to back the gay marriage bill by donating to the public relations campaign. But only four Republican senators voted for the bill, the number needed to make it pass. The did not receive contributions from these billionaires. They gave well thought out reasons of conscience or law for their votes. ... The Republican party is split between libertarians (who want to return to the absolute rights of big property owners and corporations to do as they please in the name of "Liberty") and social conservatives who emphasize family values (of which most Republican leaders are poor examples).

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AliciaL. | Jun 27, 2011, 02:25 PM EDT
The Catholic Church did not even fight! It was only an "afterthought'. Obviously the GOP was bought off by wealthy donors.

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Suivness10 | Jun 27, 2011, 12:24 PM EDT
*Definitely* not the worst of Irish Central, au contraire. I am very proud of the decision and Cuomo's backing. I am on the heterosexual side of the issue and am happy that my gay and lesbian friends can now have the same choice and happiness that I have had.

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MikeRock | Jun 27, 2011, 10:56 AM EDT
Well, You must be in your glory! Worst of Irish Central.

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BishopSean | Jun 27, 2011, 10:52 AM EDT
Hhi, jnewnam. Thanks for your kind words. As believers in Jesus, we have the honor of "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine." 2 Timothy 4:1-3. We must love others with the love of Jesus Christ and not fall prey to the temptation of "being nice guys in the wrong way." Blessings!

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Gearoid4 | Jun 27, 2011, 10:14 AM EDT
Well, Lokionline, whether you give a damn or not, there are eye-witness accounts in the bible and other sources which give the necessary credence to the existence of a man called Jesus who wandered the hills, plains and deserts of Judea more than 2000 years ago. His presence and teachings are still with us in the global Christianity which we have today. The Bible, the main Christian handbook which is one of the main sources of God's Revelation, is the most influential book on this planet today. You can ignore these facts at your peril but they are verifiable. You pooh-pooh the Magisterium of the Catholic Church but it has withstood the test of time as a legacy of the Holy Spirit guiding her over the last 2000 years.

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CitizenWhy | Jun 26, 2011, 07:50 PM EDT
1. Dolan's statement can be construed as anti-Muslin - Islam allows for wives. .. 2. Dolan had a point about putting certain churches in harm's way through the passage of gay marriage - that is, if the bill were not carelessly structured to avoid these negative consequences. The law allows any religious organization to refuse to marry gays or to refuse to let their properties be used for gay marriages. The law also bans suing these religious organizations on the basis of gay discrimination. In addition, if a court declares any part of the bill invalid, then the whole bill is abrogated. Thus will discourage lawsuits against the religious organizations that cannot in conscience allow for gay marriages. Even if the religious organizations were to win they would have to tie up valuable financial resources and tine combatting these law suits. ... The bill was carefully constructed to respect the right and consciences of all.

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Redrowan | Jun 26, 2011, 05:28 PM EDT
This is a moot issue the law has been passed. Can we now get the lesbian gay community to fully support marriage between a human and an animal. in the eyes of PETA they have civil rights and are being discriminated against. I give this about 5 years. to you nay sayers: Think about the concept of gay marriage 40 years ago. To address the headline of this piece the only ones that lose out are those with the clear and precise knowledge of a loving Christ or the The avenging God of the Old Testament. Hey who knows. We'll find out after the last breath. Some may find out sooner as God doesn't pay every Tuesday Have a nice day.

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casualMBA | Jun 26, 2011, 01:50 PM EDT
New York, which contemplated electing discredited former U.S. Rep Weiner to lead America's foremost city - even after his scandal broke, was denied in front of colleagues and the world, and subsequently proven to be as farcical as feared - now passes a gay triumph, AND simultaneously makes plans to elect and follow a popular lesbian politican as Weiner's implosion beneficiary. Is she (Ms. Quinn) to rise to John Lindsay walking the streets of Harlem the night Martin Luther King is shot; Rudy Guliani in the ashes of the World Trade; Mayor Bloomberg facing the lion's jaw of financial recession? These are standards I could point out to a grandchild, with pride. AengusOg, Thank you. Posted by AengusOg on Jun 25, 2011, 09:21 PM EDT

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lokionline | Jun 26, 2011, 11:16 AM EDT
Gearoid4, You are not paying attention... I could care less what your legends and myths tell you about this man jesus. There are verifiable historical events and then there are 'stories' that fall into other 'catagories'. Even if you think the stories of the Jew "yeshua" or whatever his name was, are actually true - a very contentious claim by the way... that only puts back your "Jewish/Catholic" church origins 300 years or so. It does not alter my contention that your perception that catholic-ism is somehow 'ancient' and that therefore in some magical way this gives it credibility, is nonsense. The whole catholic magisterium concept is absolute nonsense. The Hindus have more of a claim to ancient veracity than Christians. I and many, many, many, more of us have little time for the concept of reality found it in the pages of that curious collection of jewish stories called the bible. I would prefer to find my reality in stories of my own people, in the page of "Of gods and fighting men" by Lady Gregory for example and the ancient stories of my own people. At least these are Irish stories and every bit the match of those in the bible from a moral standpoint. The desert religions of the middle east are a poor fit for a race that grew up in the mists and green hills of Eire. So... when you bring up your religious arguments to support your position on marriage, I and the majority of others who have thought long and hard about the role of catholicism in our lives and our history hear only an echo of a tired and bankrupt 'past due date' view of reality.

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Tomassotucson | Jun 26, 2011, 10:51 AM EDT
Bishop D, you can't be part of an organization that secretly moves pedophiles from parish to parish, then use billions of dollars of church funds without any accountability, then allow these sex abusers to leave the ministry without having to register as sex offenders and then expect anyone to have any trust in what you have to say. Your creditability is worthless. The bishops organization has critically damaged the church.Millions of Catholics have left the Catholic Church and are still leaving because bishops think they are above the law. Read my lips, you may fool the Justice Department but not God.

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jnewnam | Jun 26, 2011, 09:22 AM EDT
BishopSean on 6/25/2011, 01:05 PM EDT: Yes!!!!! Thanks so much for your insight and words and intelligence. I have always contended that most of the priest scandal could be laid at the feet of homosexual priests. As a mother of boys, I know how vulnerable teenage boys are and that those teen years are where true formation of lifelong character is cemented. I also know that it was a small percentage of priests who did this and that a vast majority of priest are good and true followers of Christ. Let them have there civil marriages/unions but it's like the Anthony Weiner's marriage 'officiated' by Bill Clinton, isn't it? Like my husband quipped, he (Clinton) must own a boat"! (as in captains of ships can marry at sea). But a real marriage, noooooooooooooo!

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barneyjo | Jun 26, 2011, 08:12 AM EDT
Re the Church's statement ""We strongly uphold the Catholic Church's clear teaching that we always treat our homosexual brothers and sisters with respect, dignity and love" It is quite clear that the church has not practiced what it preaches, however a new recognition on its part that it can no longer run roughshod over civil law can only be a good thing.

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BishopSean | Jun 26, 2011, 07:52 AM EDT
Hi again, SCVMalcolm. If you like, I will give you back-up citations for every statement I wrote below. They are from sources such as the Centers for Disease Control (CDC, Atlanta) and police and FBI records, as well as statements from some gay activists. God bless you!

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