Bigoted Orange Order should be banned from marching in Dublin -- Anti-Catholic hatred they spout has no place in modern Ireland
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2012 at 08:23 AM
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| The Orange men marching on Drumcree Church |
It is always the weak-kneed liberals in Irish political parties who demand that we should consider the rights of such an organization to march through Irish streets.
They conveniently utterly ignore the massive anti-Catholicism and racism of the group, not to mention its continued propensity for violence, if it does not get its way.
There is freedom to march and then there is freedom from bigotry. The two directly clash here and the Orange Order has such a bigoted past that it should not be allowed near Dublin streets unless it changes its ways
Here is the oath every Orangeman signs up to when he is chosen to join: “He should strenuously oppose the fatal errors and doctrines of the Church of Rome, and scrupulously avoid countenancing (by his presence or otherwise) any act or ceremony of Popish worship; he should, by all lawful means, resist the ascendancy of that Church, its encroachments, and the extension of its power.”
The F-- the Pope Bands who take part in Orange marches sing a wonderful air called “We are the Billy Boys,” the first verse goes like this:
Hello! Hello! We are the Billy Boys
Hello! Hello! You'll know us by our noise
We're up to our necks in Fenian blood
Surrender or you'll die.
Charming I’m sure.
Anti-Catholicism is rampant. On July 12, 1996, Robert Saulters, a future Grand Master of the Orange Order, told a meeting that the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, "has already sold his birthright by marrying a Romanist. He would sell his soul to the devil himself. He is not loyal to his religion. He is a turncoat."
One can only imagine how Saulters felt when Balir himself converted to Catholicism.
Should we encourage these bigots to march in Dublin? I really don’t think so. Despite best efforts in recent years to somehow portray the Orange marches as cultural rather than triumphal events, the reality of the sectarian swagger deep in the souls of the serried files of Orangemen marching is never far away.
We are on the cusp of July 12th week when Northern Ireland resounds to the pounding of the Orange Order’s Lambeg drums as they commemorate their distant victory over Catholic King James at the Battle of the Boyne.
The year 1690 never seems as alive as it does during Orange marching week. Bonfires, “Kick the Pope” bands and displays of triumphalism all take over as the masses seek to insist that “God is a Prod,” as one Orangemen memorably remarked.
Yes, we have progressed mightily in Northern Ireland, but in spite of rather than because of the Orange Order.
This is a group that continues to refuse to negotiate over marches through Nationalist areas, a group that most recently brought Northern Ireland to the verge of conflagration over the contentious Drumcree march.
They have been a massive brake on progress, unyielding and unflinching in their sense of superiority and their right to rule.
In fairness many leading Unionists also recognize the need to change, and the power sharing government is an overwhelming acknowledgement of that.
But like the dissident IRA groups on the Nationalist side, there are still irredentist forces on the other side such as large elements of the Orange Order.
The idea of encouraging them to march through Dublin streets sends the wrong message altogether.
Would they invite the hardline Dissident IRA supporters to do the same up the Shankill Road in Belfast?
You can bet not. Irish authorities should feel the same about them marching in Dublin.
192 comments
sirpeter | Jul 11, 2012, 01:10 PM EDT
citizen69.lololol.This is still a red hot article on IC's most commented list.I'd say there are millions upon millions following this debate.lololol.IC is very popular.At this stage of the debate I'd say the numbers marching will be well down tomorrow.lololol
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Realist | Jul 11, 2012, 11:34 AM EDT
sirpeter: Lol....you keep trying to pin the tail to the donkey don't you? You have claimed that the OO, as an organization, is anti-Catholic. I have asked you to produce evidence to substantiate this. Instead you point to Catholic deaths as a result of a small localized battle, from the late 18th Century, in which the Loyalist side won - the encounter having been initiated by the opposing side. The Orange Order was founded afterwards. Again, I say, so what? There are no reliable contempory sources that claim the victors killed or celebrated the deaths of those killed because they were Catholics. It was a Nationalist vs. Loyalist engagement from the period of the 1798 rebellion. Many of the Nationalist (United Irishmen) were Presbyterians and Protestants and significant numbers of government troops were Catholic (e.g. at the Battle of Vinegar Hill). Then you produce a statement that was not made on behalf of the OO any more than the previous Free State declarations were that it was reacting to. Therefore, I ask again,
would you please produce one item from their own website that is anti-Catholic?
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citizen69 | Jul 11, 2012, 11:04 AM EDT
@sirpeter: "the thousands upon thousands of people who are going back over my comments at this very moment"... Hehehee!! Talk about self delusional! After 159 comments I suspect there are but a handful of people still reading the posts on this article apart from the posters themselves. You may have slightly overestimated your own importance there but ok, I'll let the legions of Sirpeter-ites trawl through your thousands of posts (as we speak)and produce the evidence (or lack of) themselves! I sit back and await the replies of the thousands upon thousands of your loyal fans. ;)
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sirpeter | Jul 11, 2012, 10:02 AM EDT
@citizen69.I never say that.Your lies will get you nowhere.They only weaken your argument more and more to the thousands upon thousands of people who are going back over my comments at this very moment exposing you for the liar you are.lololol.I said before if you are going to put words in my mouth you are going to have to quote me.Show me where I used the words "maybe" & "suspected" to justify the murder of Irishmen??
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sirpeter | Jul 11, 2012, 09:06 AM EDT
Unrealist.So you want actual written policy by the OO stating that they are anti-catholic? lololol.The Ku Klux Klan don't have a written policy that they are anti-Negro ect.Stormfront don't have a written policy that they are anti-Jew ect.So I take it if I can't provide the written policies of these organizations they are harmless? So in your mind WORDS speak louder than actions?~~~Grand Master of the OO and the Grand Wizard of the KKK to a Human Rights Judge!! You're Honor..It is purely circumstantial that all these Catholic house burnings and nig*er lynchings happened during our festivities in the past. It's not our policy your honor~See!! Have a look?? We only want to preserve our Protestant White Western Culture and NI Protestant Culture.~~You believe us don't you your honor???.NO!!!!Nobody does!!~FU*K!! What part of our policies don't you believe???~~ lolololol
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citizen69 | Jul 11, 2012, 04:32 AM EDT
@Seanmelb: lol!... Gotta love the words you and sirpeter use to justify the murders of Irishmen; "maybe" & "suspected" informers. So much for a fair trail & human rights but then 'maybe' & 'suspected' was all the justification the IRA ever needed throughout its existence. Besides, you miss a very important fact... Since the signing of Anglo-Irish Treaty in December 1921 there was an amnesty granted to all those that may have been on the side of the British. I suppose that counted for nothing too. Hmmm, here i am standing up against murder of Irish citizens and yet again, as you always do, you accuse me of being anti-Irish. How many times Aussie must i tell you that the word Irish does not equate to Murderer?
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Realist | Jul 11, 2012, 04:10 AM EDT
sirpeter: Lol....my friend you haven't provided any proof....I'm not sure you understand the concept. What you have 'cut and pasted' would be dismissed immediately as either circumstantial in the case of the casualties form the Battle of the Diamond or irrelevant in the case of the Craig quotation. Unless you can produce evidence that the OO, as an organization, advocates explicit anti-Catholic policies then we will have to presume otherwise. Therefore I will ask again, would you please produce one item from their own website that is anti-Catholic?
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seanomelb | Jul 10, 2012, 07:12 PM EDT
citizen69 some protestants certainly suffered during the war of independence.Maybe they were the same protestants and some loyalist catholics who entertained British and black and tan officers and named people in their districts whom they believed to be Republican and republican sympathisers.Give me a break you bleeding heart anti Irish wimp.
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sirpeter | Jul 10, 2012, 06:15 PM EDT
Unrealist.lol.I think I have proved beyond reasonable doubt that the Orange Order is anti-Catholic.As Gearoid4 stated it's an insidious organization.That's a good word to describe the Orange Order.Proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
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Gearoid4 | Jul 10, 2012, 04:56 PM EDT
I see that certain defenders of the orange order are trying to rehabilitate this insidious organization despite it's coat-trailing legacy of religious bigotry, communal violence,death and destruction, over the course of it's existence for some 200 years or more. British government instigated reports into such events in the 19th century have resonances of recent disturbances which have followed orange parades. But still the leaders of this organization deign to lecture the elected members of parliament in the Republic, regarding human rights and religious freedoms. This institution really has to make up it's mind in relation to it's reason for existing i.e is it a political organization with religious overtones or a religious body which has overt political links? Either way, it has seriously compromised itself and must divest itself of it's anti-Catholic ethos, before it's leaders can claim any moral ground to lecture others on religious or socio-political grounds.
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Realist | Jul 10, 2012, 03:49 PM EDT
sirpeter: Then you bring Sir James Craig into it for some reason. Perhaps you ran out of things to cut and paste or perhaps you wished to add some context? Well, let's have the full context then. Firstly, his actual words from April 1934 were, "In the south, they boasted of a Catholic state. They still boast of southern Ireland being a Catholic state. All I boast of is that we are a Protestant parliament and a Protestant state.'' This was in response to two earlier declarations made by Free State politicians. At a Dublin election meeting in February 1932, Prime Minister Eamon De Valera said: “The majority of the people of Ireland are Catholic and we believe in Catholic principles. 'And as the majority are Catholics,it is right and natural that the principles to be applied by us will be principles consistent with Catholicity.'' The in October 1933, in Geneva, Deputy Prime Minister Sean O'Kelly declared that ''the Free State Government was inspired in its every administrative action by Catholic principles and doctrine.' However, what this has got to do with the Orange Order's alleged anti-Catholicism, I have no idea.
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Realist | Jul 10, 2012, 03:41 PM EDT
sirpeter: Lol....at last, making a stab at it i see. However, not a very good one though. Sloan was indeed the equivalent of the first Grand Master of the OO. Given that the "Battle of the Diamond" was between the Catholic Defenders and the local Protestants, and that the latter group prevailed, it's hardly surprising that there were Catholic dead or that the Protestants celebrated victory and surviving in the aftermath - so what? You have still urged no proof that the OO is anti-Catholic. To quote from their website, they "declare their brotherhood in loyalty to the Crown, the country and the Reformed religion". I have asked you before and so will do again, would you please produce one item from their own website that is anti-Catholic?
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IrishAndProud | Jul 10, 2012, 02:50 PM EDT
Uh, Patrick...just what is 'modern Ireland?' Care to define it, for us? The 'modern Ireland' I see has no place for either the Orange Order OR Celtic Roman Catholics, but only for politically-correct, unassimilatable foreigners. What's truly heart-breaking, Patrick, is people like YOU still obsessing over the Protestant-Catholic 'divide' whilst the cultures of both are being obliterated by the foreigners, there. It's like two kids with a life-long rivalry, still duking it out in the mud while non-Irish thugs, completely surrounding them, close in on both of them with knives and every other weapon -- and the two kids don't even notice. The Prods and the Catholics SHOULD be uniting, yes...to save Ireland from the much bigger menace of foreigners, who in less than 20 short years have done to Ireland what the Brits couldn't do in 700 years. I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't (or won't) see that -- or who somehow thinks it's 'good' or 'broad-minded' to see Ireland disintegrating as it is -- is either blind to the threat, or has a white guilt complex that can only be assuaged by the destruction of their land, or that of their ancestors. And that is truly madness...mental illness of the worst kind.
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Kilsally | Jul 10, 2012, 01:14 PM EDT
There are very few if any Orange marches through `nationalist areas`. Of 3000 parade most taking place this week , only 3 are contentious - Drumcree & Ardoyne being the two that hit the headlines every year. The Lodges paraded Garvaghy Road at Drumcree for nearly 200 years - it is only in the last 50 years that houses were built on the road. Lower Garvaghy Road has an Orange Arch as there is a small protestant community there. Ardoyne as local Orange lodges like Lord Erne Ardoyne north Belfast Orange Lodge. The parade follows the Crumlin Road and the flashpoint is the Ardoyne shops a commerical area which is an interface between communities. Crumlin Road is a main arterial route.
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