44 Comments

• Towngate | Oct 18, 2010, 09:05 AM EDT

  If anyone: Man Woman or Child - does not like the RCC the way they found it - why can't they simply go and Found one to their own liking. Simples!

• LITTLEGOAT | Oct 12, 2010, 05:51 PM EDT

  i personally do not care if a priest is man or a woman but i think too much time is wasted arguing about it rather than ser ving god and his people. i do not believe that that is arragance on my part at all only a fact and observation. i spent 12 years doing lay misasionary work so i see first hand the great needs of the poor and see also a lot of time put into getting assertive rights rather than caring if the poor have food

• LITTLEGOAT | Oct 12, 2010, 05:48 PM EDT

  for 2bor not 2 bor i was speaking of the ones making a huge deal out of women being priests. that is the only ones i was speaking of they spend sooo much time trying to get what they want they often do not consider spending time serving god.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 06, 2010, 01:15 PM EDT

  --- There's an inescapable logic to the CC that cannot exist in any of its 'derivates' in the prot world, and that many ignore or attempt to diminish at their own peril. -- If in fact Christianity is based on the bible, and it was the CC which preserved, discerned and canonized it, then how in heaven's name can anyone reject or attempt to obscure the fact that without the CC Christianity not would exist as a religion? -- It might in fact exist, but only as a multitude of sects, congregations and assemblies of people led by those who would be passing on to their faithful oral stories well adorned by folk tales and personal interpretations with the passing of two thousand years ago. -- Really, something akin to what now exists in protestantism, though their traditions and tales are tempered given that they can count on the bible the CC gave them to keep the story somewhat straight and honest. cont'd...

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 06, 2010, 01:11 PM EDT

  @@JamieLM -- Thanks for the backhanded compliment. I confess, I'm guilty as charged! I don't think I'll ever be one to roll over and play dead while a bunch of sore, uninformed and hateful people sling mud in the direction of an institution which may have horrible sinners in its midst, yet in its very essence remains unequivocably holy and perfect, simply by virtue of the fact that the One who founded it who is Holy and Perfect! -- You who are fond of offering aid and comfort to those who pile on the insults on this Church might do well to remember that 'impeccability' was not among the promises Jesus made to His Church. In fact He prophesied: "There will always be SCANDALS in your midst.." and, "If they hated me, they will hate you even more.." --- He did, however, promise her 'perpetuity,' and that should give you and those who pile it on because of the sins of a few, a long pause for thought; because to brand the Church as a fallen and corrupt institution is to dismiss Jesus as a deluded liar, which in turn makes THE WHOLE of Christianity untenable. --- cont'd...

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 05, 2010, 05:10 PM EDT

  LITTLEGOAT - Do you pretend to know what's in the heart of people? That's rather arrogant on your part. Try googling 'Catholic Charities' which runs an enormous network of charitable agencies that feed the poor, resettle refugees giving them homes and furniture, and go to the aid of those who suffer natural catastrophes to the point of helping to rebuild thousands of houses; or try (among thousands of religious orders that run shelters, soup kitchens, orphanages, schools for children of indigents, leprosaries, hospices for AIDS patients, homes for the elderly etc.), Sisters of the Poor (founded by Mother Teresa), and Franciscan Friars of the Renewal located in South Bronx, NY. I assure you, you'll be surprised to find that the CC from times immemorial has run places that not only live to praise Yaweh, but to help the littlest among God's children as well, serving them with dignity and never asking for payment.

• LITTLEGOAT | Oct 05, 2010, 11:58 AM EDT

  men or women priests how many of these people are thinking of praising yaweh or helping get rid of poverty or how to protect kids on the street from sex trafficking? seems they all have the " me wants" not the god wants.

• jamieLM | Oct 05, 2010, 10:16 AM EDT

  2BorNot2B: You're a knowledgeable, devout, and a rigorous defender and supporter of the RCC whether Catholics agree or disagree with your viewpoints. I find your faithfulness admirable. You're not an expert on Protestant doctrinal issues, though. You have a natural bias and can hardly be objective. If one wants to know more about the Catholic faith, they should consult CATHOLIC resources, not ask Protestants. If one wants to understand Protestant faiths, they should consult Protestant resources and not ask Catholics to define them. 2B, you're at your best when you blog about the RCC and omit the negative comments about Protestants.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 07:47 PM EDT

  Sez adrienrain: >>the inferiority of women is woven into the fabric of the middle eastern religion, Judaism, from which Christianity and Islam both evolved..<< Again, your biblical ignorance is patent. The Catholic Church alone among world religions, through reverence to Mary the mother of God, has elevated the dignity of women to the highest reaches of heaven. There isn't a single CC where you do not find a picture or statue of 'the woman clothed with the sun' or of thousands of saintly women whose life, deeds and heroic virtues are celebrated. -- This goes back even to stories of the OT where we see Salomon the king revering his own mother; of heroic women like Judith, Rachel, the mother of the Macabees, etc. something you would never find in islam. -- The NT as well is full of stories where women are treated with deference. It was the women after all who 'ministered' to the needs of Jesus and His apostles. There are stories about Mary and Martha of Magdala, Mary of Clopas, of the wife of Chuza who was Herod's steward. There are also stories of rich Roman women in whose houses the first Christians used to gather to worship and break bread. -- The early Church had St Helena, the mother of Constantine, the Middle Ages had Catherine of Sienna who is a 'Doctor of the Church,' Claire of Asissi; the 'reformation' had a giant thinker and mystic: Teresa of Avila another 'Doctor of the Church; the 19th C had Therese de Lisieux, again a Doctor of the Church, in between of those mentioned are thousands of saintly women, mothers, nuns, widows, housewives, physicians, etc. you name it they are all well known to Catholics. -- So all in all your rant is nothing more than uninformed and blind bias. -- Rather than shrivelling, I'd suggest you look at the statistics of growth in the Church. -- If you had stopped to see the Pope's visit to Britain you could have had visual proof. -- Must be quite frustrating to find your wishful thinking and that of others like you denied.

• ellenfromcork | Oct 04, 2010, 07:39 PM EDT

  There's only one solution for all our problems-- throw out the church and the out the government and go back to the Celtic church and Brehon law.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 07:05 PM EDT

  @adreinrain: >>OK, the Church allowed priests to marry for many centuries. Then it decided to impose celibacy. << True, because there were problems with 'simony.' The point is that no matter what, it's a "damn if you do - damn if you don't" situation for the Church. People are unhappy if she corrects abuses, and worse yet if she does not. >>So which position was the infallible and unassailable Truth?<< Your question is perfect evidence that you talk from a point of view of absolute IGNORANCE. -- The issue of celibacy has NOTHING TO DO with infallibility. Celibacy is a DISCIPLINE imposed by the Church, hence it would be apt to change if the Church so discerned. But don't hold your breath since the majority of Catholics (not that it matters) are happy with things as they are. >>My second question is this, why is celibacy any more virtuous than constipation?<< In reply to the first part there's plenty of biblical support for celibacy, if you had any knowledge of the bible you'd have no problem finding it -or I could provide the references- As for constipation, that's something I'm sure you can tell us all about, since you sound quite plugged.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 06:37 PM EDT

  tilliewillow -- Unfortunately for you the prospects of the Church crashing and burning are dim. The Founder promised her perpetuity: "I will be with you until the end of times.." - If Jesus lied or was confused, then the whole edifice comes crashing down and Christianity itself is a hoax. --- Alas, it is very real; Christians have the evidence of over 5000 thousand years of first, a promise (OT), and then the realization of that promise (NT). -- No matter how hard prots, secularists and CINOs wish the Church away it will be here 'even to the end of time,' better get used to the idea because you have no choice other than to reject to be a part of it.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 06:14 PM EDT

  In answer to your question, James Murphy, what sort of problem are you having with my education that you might demand my credentials? Is a certificate valid only if it hails from Trinity College, Oxford or Cambridge?

• adrienrain | Oct 04, 2010, 05:44 PM EDT

  On the other hand, the church is right in its position on women, because the inferiority of women is woven into the fabric of the middle eastern religion, Judaism, from which Christianity and Islam both evolved.. There is nothing in the bible, nothing in Catholic doctrine, nothing in church history, that is liberating or even fair to women. When women understand that, and compare it to reality in a world in which women are finding the freedom to excel and be free, the church will shrivel even more.

• adrienrain | Oct 04, 2010, 05:39 PM EDT

  OK, the Church allowed priests to marry for many centuries. Then it decided to impose celibacy. So which position was the infallible and unassailable Truth? My second question is this, why is celibacy any more virtuous than constipation?

• Searlit | Oct 04, 2010, 05:29 PM EDT

  Allowing priests to marry would be a positive step.

• Tilliewillow | Oct 04, 2010, 05:09 PM EDT

  the church needs to crash and burn befoer it can rise, like the phoenix, from the ashes, amen,

• P~Flynn | Oct 04, 2010, 04:54 PM EDT

  The Church is not a democracy. Why is it so hard for cafeteria Catholics and Catholic haters to understand this? The Church teaches the Truth - even though that sometimes makes people uncomfortable. Deal with it or join a church which teaches that truth is relative and subject to popular opinion. Goodness knows there are plenty of those to choose from.

• JamesMurphy | Oct 04, 2010, 04:20 PM EDT

  2BorNot2B, where were you educated--that is the question?

• katieherk | Oct 04, 2010, 03:56 PM EDT

  What a bunch of bumbling idiots!!! Some of these comments are true, most are stupid. Nuns do not have the capacity, let's say humility, to be priests... thank God. The vows? All of a sudden they can cast them aside and forget humility and obedience? Stay in the convents, ladies, and get back to teaching. Think of how the church would change with nuns leading it. I shiver with fear!!

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 03:26 PM EDT

  O'Carroll sez: >> And if the Church hasn't noticed the growing sense of alienation felt by both the secularists as well as the weekly mass-goers, then it should start reading the newspapers (and internet blogs!) a bit more."<< -- Could you please give your readers some verifiable evidence of WHEN exactly in its long history the Church has been guided by, or listened to public opinion in order to change its theology, practice of counsel to the faithful?

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 02:11 PM EDT

  JamesMurphy -- You're welcome, and I must say I have learned a lot about being 'christian' by reading yours. Oh wait, that's not quite right! Mostly you have concentrated on virtues such as unfounded criticism, berating, false accusations, distortion of the Pope's motives, focusing on the mote in the neighbor's eye and ignoring the beam that covers yours and those you prefer to agree with. Can you tell me where I can find those 'christian virtues' you portray in the bible?

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 01:56 PM EDT

  glorygal -- your problem is that you want to tar an entire 2 thousand year old Church of one billion and a half believers for the sins of only very few. That's a tall order. It didn't work for the Roman Emperors, for the so called 'reformers' and their henchmen enforcers, for Hitler, Stalin, uncle Ho, etc. believe me, your puny efforts are doomed. So give it up, and before you croak try mightily to find the TRUTH that Jesus said would set you free. I can guarantee you it ain't where you're at presently, because it seems all they teach you is hatred. "You shall know them by their fruits." Can you ennumerate for 'people who want to know' the fruits of your sect, other than being mud slingers and contrarians?

• JamesMurphy | Oct 04, 2010, 01:49 PM EDT

  Thank you for your comments, 2BorNot2B. I found them, while hardly Christian, amusing to say the least.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 01:47 PM EDT

  to glorynutbe -- Old woman you obviously make it your hobby to scour the internet for opportunities to show your resentment toward a Church you left without fully knowing, and now all you do is spew the hatred you are being taught by the preacher of the one you joined and expoits your gullibility. --- BTW, how many years ago was your new church founded and by whom was it brought into being? 2 years, 10, 130? -- I'd be willing to bet that before your tempestuos exit from the CC you never picked up a bible, but now you think you can interpret it for us and out-verse-sling the very people who gave it to you? -- Try reading 2Tim 3:6-9 "For among them are those who make their way into households AND CAPTURE WEAK WOMEN, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses who will listen to ANYBODY and can never arrive at KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.... so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith, but they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all..." And indeed the folly is plain to see in you! ---- But yoou can profit mightily from continuing to read the entire letter, for you might find excellent wisdom and application to your case; FOCUS particularly on Ch 4, especially the following: "...rebuke and exhort with unfailing PATIENCE (rather than the with the bile you use)... Ch 4: "For the time is coming when PEOPLE WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND TEACHING, BUT HAVING ITCHING EARS THEY WILL ACCUMULATE FOR THEMSELVES 'TEACHERS' TO SUIT THEIR OWN LIKING AND WILL TURN AWAY FROM LISTENING TO THE TRUTH AND WANDER INTO MYTHS..." -- I think Paul wrote this for you.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 01:04 PM EDT

  >>A first step towards opening the minds of the Catholic hierarchy would be to end the ludicrous demand that priests be celibate and allow them to marry.<< ---- That appears to be a pressing need only for those who let their scrotum control their reasoning ability. -- Their 'brain', like yours James Murphy, quite apparently, resides between their legs. >>They might go this far in the next decade or so<< Try... actually NEVER. -- There are already anti-biblical protestant churches who have women priests and bishops. Go see what additional flaws you find in their practices; or live happily among them and stop trying to dictate anti-biblical idiocy to a Church you don't even know.

• glorybe1929 | Oct 04, 2010, 12:58 PM EDT

  Ithink every comment here is ridiculous. Why don't you all just leave this devil church and stop complaining? If you love God, HE is with us all who love HIM.Can you imagine that? HE is not in the RCC. Never has been! And never will be! Read the account of St. Paul's warning to the new Christians, "that they should not listen to the infiltraitors of their little groups." He said "they are preaching a gospel other than the Gospel that Christ taught them". He said , " even if they come to you as angels, DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM" They listened and became the RCC. IT'S A FAUX CHURCH OF THE DEVIL.USING JESUS CHRIST TO CONFUSE GULLIBLE PEOPLE. The devil has power but GOD's POWER IS GREATER THAN ALL. CALL ON HIM ! The devil can come as angel of light, when he is as black as night. Beware people! Do your homework.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 12:54 PM EDT

  >>the Vatican .. deeply embedded in the psyches of its "leaders" that the females of our species are not equal.<< Flash to you James Murphy: There are plenty of 'high power' positions in the Church (CEOs of Hospital chains, Head of religious congregations, foundresses of school systems and religious orders, high positions in the Vatican, etc filled by women). --- Throughout the 2K history of the Church saintly women not only have influenced the Papacy itself (Catherine of Sienna made the Pope return to Rome), reformed policies and theological views of the hierarchy (Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux), and who could doubt the power of that humble 5' dynamo, Mother Teresa, who never did anything more than mirror Christian/Catholic values to the point of being honored by an entire nation (India) but awarded a most prestigious 'human' prize she NEVER aspired to or worked for? --- It is only those who would spend their time flapping their yap rather than informing themselves that scream the loudest. Their frustration derives from seeing the Church ignore the "wise" counsel they, and others of their ilk, feel empowered and capable to profer, even while they don't even show up to warm the pews, other than when a family member needs the Church to bury them. A first step towards opening the minds of the Catholic hierarchy would be to end the ludicrous demand that priests be celibate and allow them to marry. They might go this far in the next decade or so

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 12:14 PM EDT

  >>This is a much broader issue than females being accepted as priests in the Catholic Church. It is about females being recognized by men as their equals in all walks of life.<< Those of us who remain faithful and well informed about the mission and workings of the ONLY Church Christ founded would like to see where in the bible Christ taught or seemed preoccupied with male-female equality 'in all walks of life'? Chapter and verse please.

• JamesMurphy | Oct 04, 2010, 12:10 PM EDT

  Sad to say, no it's not just you, 2BorNot2B. But fear not, we'll pray for you.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 04, 2010, 11:51 AM EDT

  Is it just me or are there others out there who would mistake these loud-mouth and power-hungry 'nuns' for men in drag?

• Searlit | Oct 04, 2010, 11:49 AM EDT

  I agree with lookbackkid, some people just want power and control whether they're male of female. The need for control of other people's lives is so egotistical.@ James Murphy, brilliant!

• mayoman | Oct 04, 2010, 11:09 AM EDT

  JamesMurphy is absolutely right. The Church has been painfully slow to recognize the value of all women, and slower still to even consider the possibility of allowing them to assume positions of policy-making authority within the Church. The Church is a weaker institution without the participation of women priests and bishops. Yet as the Vatican is located in Rome, The Eternal City, you can expect the august gentlemen in charge to unfortunately take an eternity before they change anything in a meaningful way.

• Maithcraic | Oct 04, 2010, 11:05 AM EDT

  If people are unhappy, just leave. The Church will be stronger without these power hungry women. The only reason they want to be priests is that they want to tell everyone what to do. They couldn't get husbands yet they want to control men. Let them form their own church.

• photoclick | Oct 04, 2010, 10:38 AM EDT

  James Murphy,the problem isn't "about females being recognized by men as their equals in all walks of life". It's about the like of Sr Louvenagh Heffernan who chooses not to wear her 'Female Nuns Habit' and wanting to dresss like a 'Male Priest'. Just mixed up hormones if you ask me!

• JamesMurphy | Oct 04, 2010, 09:59 AM EDT

  This is a much broader issue than females being accepted as priests in the Catholic Church. It is about females being recognized by men as their equals in all walks of life. We are still a long way from achieving this, and until we do there will remain profoundly flawed instances like those expressed by the Vatican and deeply embedded in the psyches of its "leaders" that the females of our species are not equal. A first step towards opening the minds of the Catholic hierarchy would be to end the ludicrous demand that priests be celibate and allow them to marry. They might go this far in the next decade or so. But female priests...? That will take a good deal longer. After all, it seems like only yesterday that girls were allowed to serve on the altar. The Vati-can, but mostly it doesn't.

• kilgara | Oct 04, 2010, 09:44 AM EDT

  When are you people{O'Dowd} going to stop Catholic bashing?This constant trashing of our beloved church is so over the top.

• kerryman201 | Oct 04, 2010, 09:33 AM EDT

  That must be the case oldboreen!

• athlonejackie | Oct 04, 2010, 09:13 AM EDT

  Thank you for your daily dose of Catholic Bashing,

• oldboreen | Oct 04, 2010, 09:10 AM EDT

  Lighten up 'kerryman201'! 'Temerity'is codding us! He/she must be!

• kerryman201 | Oct 04, 2010, 08:39 AM EDT

  temerity you certainly have quite some temerity to say that!

• kerryman201 | Oct 04, 2010, 08:39 AM EDT

  Temerity: good men are nicer than women? That has to be the most ridiculous IC comment I've read this week! You certainly have some 'temerity' to say that!

• Temerity | Oct 04, 2010, 03:32 AM EDT

  Times are changing I suppose but maybe it is because I am not used to the thought of women priests but think there is an intrinsic difference between a man and a woman that seems to makes men better suited to the Catholic priesthood.Maybe because I think men are nicer e.g.to women than other women are. Bottom line .Yes GOOD MEN are definitely nicer all round I think than women are.

• lookbackkid | Oct 03, 2010, 06:03 PM EDT

  It's not wether you are male or female. Some of God's children like power and to control.