Future of compulsory Irish hangs in doubt
Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 at 08:53 AM
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The future of compulsory Irish-language education is now hanging in doubt after opposition parties Fine Gael and Labour have confirmed that they're planning to follow different stances on the controversial issue in the lead-up to the recently announced general election.
Currently the teaching of Irish - Gaeilge in the native tongue - is compulsory right up to and including the Leaving Certificate, Irish high schools' finishing exam which is broadly equivalent to the College Board SATs.
The current position has garnered much criticism over the years. Underachieving students and those with no competence for languages find themselves struggling for years with a language that they cannot master, while many others, including those who speak to the language proficiently -ironically, including Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny himself- simply hold the position that maintaining its mandatory status is both inefficient and unfair on students.
This is a blog after all though, so I'll throw in my two cents as someone who finished the Irish high-schooling system just two years ago.
Personally, I'm in favour of Enda Kenny's plan to make Irish/Gaeilge optional after the Junior Certificate, the first exam in the Irish high school system, broadly equivalent to the PSAT in the American system.
I agree that Irish should remain compulsory up to a point, in order to preserve Irish culture, national heritage, etc, but once students reach the age of 16 surely they should be given enough autonomy to make that decision for themselves, rather than having the language foisted upon them like a hapless burden.
I think the biggest argument in favour of Enda's policy, though, is that Irish is so dismally taught across the board. Compare and contrast. Like most students, I learned Irish for 14 years (2 years pre-primary; 6 years primary school; 6 years secondary school). By the end of that time I finished up with an A2 in Higher Level but with a fairly poor oral command of the language, and certainly miles away from anything near fluency. I learned Spanish in an immersion school in Marbella for two months. By the end of that period I could read, write, and speak Spanish fluently.
If the government is going to continue to force Irish students to learn Irish they should undertake to ensure that it's taught in such a fashion that can ensure fluency after 14 years of study. Otherwise I agree with Enda Kenny that it's unfair and wasteful to force poor quality Irish education onto students who could be learning other subjects instead.
15 comments
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WoundedKnee | Jan 28, 2011, 04:44 AM EST
sirpeter (and kneejerk)---You truly are a pair of zeros. I clearly said that no one has to LEARN Irish. You idiots can´t read English, but took it to mean they don´t have to TEACH Irish. Did it ever occur to you two dopes that there´s a difference between teaching and learning? Of course Irish is taught in Irish schools, but that doesn´t mean anyone is learning it. Fools like you should see the numbers of students who are given exemptions from studying Irish, and the even greater numbers who get (like you two) a Fail in Irish after studying it for more than 12 years. And for the benefit of American readers, I can tell you that a Fail in Irish means you can´t say two words in the language. This after 123 or more years being taught it!!! There are countless people in the Irish schools who are not learning Irish, and they are getting by just fine. Of course the inability to learn a few phrases in a language after countless years exposure to it suggests that the Irish are not exactly the smartest, are they? And confirmation can be found be referring to the grossly stupoid misreading of my post by sirpeter aka antoman. Two names--one idiot!
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McNabb1966 | Jan 27, 2011, 12:54 PM EST
The problem is not that the language is compulsory but that the teachers do a poor job of teaching it. It's like the teaching of history in the U.S. When it's taught properly and enthusiastically, with a focus on finding ways to make it both interesting and relevant then a teacher can be successful. If the teacher in question sends the message that he/she is simply going through the motions and that there is no real significance and importance to it, then naturally the students will react accordingly. Then it becomes a comspiracy, in effect, by the teacher and the students to simply "get through it" and satisfy requirements. In other words, the ATTITUDE toward the language and the teaching of it needs to change, not the requirements.
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Searlit | Jan 26, 2011, 01:11 PM EST
Keeping Irish compulsory, until the students are 16, makes sense to me. Otherwise, understanding of the language will fall off. It should be taught with greater proficiency, perhaps offering an immersion school, as an option for those students, who truly want to learn the language, would be of great help, in preserving the use of the language, as well as, a way to honour Irish culture.
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jamieLM | Jan 26, 2011, 11:59 AM EST
@joanmoody - you're so right - "use it or lose it." Although, I can read, write, and understand it, I'm not nearly as fluent as I once was. @vincem13 - I don't know where you're from or how old you are, but I'm sorry you didn't have the opportunity to study a foreign language. Foreign lang. study was required, beginning in Middle Sch. (Jr. High) where I grew up, starting in 1964. In my time a few kids groaned, but most of us were familiar with Spanish because we grew up with "Sesame St." My state university required 2 yrs. of a foreign language to graduate. I grew up in the Midwest and we had only a small Mexican pop. in and near my community. Many of my classmates chose French or German to study. Living in the U.S., I thought Spanish was more practical. I think studying a foreign language helped me improve my English writing skills. In college it exposed me to not only "Mexico Span.", but "Spain Span.", "Cuban Span.", and "South Am. Span." vocabularies, accents, idioms, and cultures. Luckily, my kids started learning Spanish in pre-school and became big fans of "Dora the Explorer." I think it's a plus to study a foreign language, whether you become fluent in it or not, and so important if it's your native language as Gaelic is in Ireland. Gaelic is truly a "crown jewel" of Irish culture.
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greensod | Jan 26, 2011, 11:35 AM EST
Kenny is correct, not much point using this language when dealing with the IMF.
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vincem13 | Jan 26, 2011, 10:23 AM EST
A very well reasoned article, Mr. O'Carroll. As a typical American, I am fluent in only the one language. I so wish a foreign language had been required from our early schooling on when I went through. Now that it is required (Middle School or in some areas even as late as High School)the linguistic patterns are set and becoming truly fluent in another language is much, much harder. When I went through primary and secondary schooling NO foreign language was required. Now, I can get slapped in French and laughed at in Spanish.
You are so right. If it is to be required past the Junior Certificate, Irish Gaelic should be taught as if it the crown jewel of Irish culture (which it is).
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joanmoody | Jan 26, 2011, 10:14 AM EST
I can't comment on Irish but with all languages it depends on the competency of the teacher. In live in South Texas where the speaking of Spanish is almost mandatory because of those from Mexico who come up and shop and, no, I am talking about the undocumented. It is possible to be immersed in a language and to be able to read, write and speak it with a degree of fluency in a short time but unless it is kept up on a daily basis one can lose it.
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KneeJerk | Jan 26, 2011, 09:09 AM EST
Woundedbolix...i like that. My newphew now lives in Italy. No, I don't speak Italian, but I heard him speaking with Italians like an Italian. I was quite a proud uncle. And sirpeter, correct, Irish is still compulsory (I live in Kerry if I didn't mention that here before)
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sirpeter | Jan 25, 2011, 08:21 PM EST
Woundedbolix...I love the way you get everything wrong."No one has to learn Irish in Ireland any more, you're way out of touch"...Quote article "Currently the teaching of Irish - Gaeilge in the native tongue - is compulsory right up to and including the Leaving Certificate"Unquote.. You're touched..ha ha
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WoundedKnee | Jan 25, 2011, 02:33 PM EST
Kneejerk: So you're able to assess how much Italian your nephew learned? I assume you speak Italian fluently. Certainly your reading skills leave you a bit short in English. Our columnist was NOT saying he learned Spanish, he was claiming he could "read, write, and speak Spanish fluently" after studying the language for just two months. I say he's fooling himself, and he's apparently fooling you. And knock off that stupid cliche about "shoving it down peoples' throats". No one has to learn Irish in Ireland any more, you're way out of touch.
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KneeJerk | Jan 25, 2011, 01:59 PM EST
WoundedKnee.. that's a bit harsh don't you think? He was only saying he learned Spanish! I'd a nephew who did the same thing except with Italian. If you're living in a country and immersed in the language it's more than possible. That's the problem with Irish -- that nobody speaks it out of the classroom. If we put a bit of smarts into how we teach it rather than just shoving it down peoples' throats I'd say you'd be surprised how many people would be able to speak it fluently after a while. I'd say have a drink down the Shamrock Saloon yourself!
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WoundedKnee | Jan 25, 2011, 01:54 PM EST
How do you know you could "read, write, and speak Spanish fluently" after studying the language for just two months? I'd say you're talking garbage, you're not in a position to assess your own proficiency in Spanish after two months contact with the language. The Spanish are easy going, they're not going to pull you up on every error you make. And Marbella is not exactly empty of English-speaking foreigners, I bet every night you were getting drunk in Paddy's Bar or the Shamrock Saloon. As regards the substantive point, rather than the nonsense you wrote about yourself, I would say that Ireland does need to change its paradigm for teaching Irish. It's not working. And what about the tens of thousands of foreign children who don't have the slightest interest or connection with the language? They'll grow up not knowing a word of Irish--that'll finally kill off the language.
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jamieLM | Jan 25, 2011, 10:21 AM EST
Interesting article. I studied Spanish in Middle Sch., High Sch., and college where it was one of my Subject Fields (minor). Spanish is a phonetic language which makes it easier to learn. As an American, I'm not commenting on how long Irish should be taught in Ireland. I would only hope that it's taught by the most competent teachers using the most productive and skillful methods. Learning a language, though, is like learning any other subject. Some students will find it easier to learn and be more proficient than others, regardless of teachers and methods. Keep us posted on the decision.
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Portia777 | Jan 25, 2011, 09:43 AM EST
yes, better quality teaching of irish is required. But when a country looses it sovereign language, part of it dies. There are words in Irish which have no translation in English, because our culture is so different, having the most evolved justice system in the world.The irish words in our own justice system are not translateable. We use the justice system of our invaders to this day- so gone is the language of irish Justice. Bit by bit we are loosing our entire culture.
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