29 Comments

• srcarrvt | Sep 26, 2010, 07:36 PM EDT

  to Searlit and the others: thank you for your input. I will most definately look into all of the avenues you put before me :) Slainte!

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 26, 2010, 02:59 PM EDT

  You're right, searlit, the death of any language is not nice, especially when it embodies a tradition of a millenium and a half. Something important dies when any of the 5 or 6 thousand languages of the world dies. I mourn the dying Irish language, and I despise all who have collaborated in its imminent death. Most of these were of course Irish.

• Searlit | Sep 26, 2010, 09:49 AM EDT

  That's not very nice GeorgeDillon.

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 25, 2010, 04:20 PM EDT

  Keane: "Irish does not thrive on despair." Ain't that the truth. That's why the langauge is on life support, and will effectively be dead as a living community language, within my likely life-span. I'm about 40. Of course it'll hang on, with study groups in places from Buenos Aires to Manhattan. And there'll be people learning it on the internet, just like right now there are people learning Klingon.

• norinalundy | Sep 24, 2010, 11:45 AM EDT

  I had a sociology professor who said, "If there were colonization on the moon, there would be a 'little Ireland' to represent the Irish." I think that the Irish are clannish by nature, or perhaps it is because of the Irish experience. The same could be said for the Orthodox Jewish population who live their culture in the midst of multi-cultural America in order to prevent losing their culture. Everywhere one travels to, there is an Irish community. However, it would be wise to learn the old language and traditions. I make it a point to do so for my own cultural background which is Italian. My kids are "gimmicks" so I try to teach them both the Irish background and the Italian. By the way, I've tried to learn the Irish myself. Needless to say, it is not easy.

• DennisQ | Sep 23, 2010, 11:35 PM EDT

  For people who want to brush up on their Irish, I believe by now there are Irish speaking groups who chat on Skype. There's a directory with several fields you can select who you're looking to chat with. One is last name, another is country, and still a third is language.
  
  Just for fun I looked if there are more Irish speakers in America than in Ireland, and indeed there are. Most of the Irish speakers in both countries also take Skype calls in English but there are a few - God bless them - who take calls only in Irish.
  
  If you have enough Irish to ask questions of an Irish speaker, you can probably call one of these people up and ask if they know of a group that "meets" regularly.

• BrendanPKeane | Sep 23, 2010, 04:46 PM EDT

  GeorgeDillon: You diagnose pathological hatred, with something like expertise. Irish does not thrive on despair.

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 23, 2010, 04:29 PM EDT

  Keane, despite your silly advice, I am sure I know far more irish people than you do. That's how I know their attitudes to the Irish language. For 98% of them the attitude ranges from apathy to hatred. Sometimes that hatred is truly pathological. I will never hide my contempt for those Irish who sneer at Ireland's ancient language. You should have a bit more self-respect, Keane, rather than defending these anti-Irish language bigoted Irish. As to scarrvt's plea for advice, I suggest s/he purchase the Pimsleur tapes on line. They're advertized on a lot of web sites, and only cost about ten bucks for enough material to keep you going for a couple months. Very good value for a beginner, the only problem is that they are in the Kerry dialect which is almost dead.

• DennisQ | Sep 23, 2010, 12:50 PM EDT

  People who maintain their ethnic identity are often accused of refusing to assimilate. Bandleader Lawrence Welk spoke with an accent and people thought he was foreign-born. In fact he was born in North Dakota and grew up there.

• jamieLM | Sep 22, 2010, 10:19 PM EDT

  Rebelforce: Have you been to the Midwest? There are lots of Midwestern towns where the Germans, the Dutch, and the Scandinavians have maintained their ethnic identities. There are people in those towns who can still read and speak their ethnic language fluently. I don't disagree with your comments about the Irish, just that the Irish aren't the only ones to have maintained their ethnic identity quite well. You're right about the English - don't know of any just "English" towns. Btw, the Germans in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, & Iowa are gearing up for Oktoberfest.

• Sweeneyastray | Sep 22, 2010, 09:24 PM EDT

  Well written. Expresses my feelings, especially the reference to the consumptive and sometimes mindless pop culture. Irish Americans, at least most of the American's of Irish descent I know (not all) wish to reconnect to their Irish roots in some way. They like to know where their families hail from. The Famine had an affect that lasted generations into the future. The ordeal of leaving Ireland and assimilation to American culture left a scar that carries forward to this day.

• Searlit | Sep 22, 2010, 09:10 PM EDT

  srcarrvt, You can buy a "Teach Yourself Irish' book and CD at Borders. It's good. Of course, it's always better if you can find someone who speaks Irish because conversation is really what gives you fluency. Also, some High Schools offer Introductory Irish as a night class. It's a way to get started that's not too expensive, and it's fun!

• Rebelforce | Sep 22, 2010, 08:42 PM EDT

  When you consider that the great waves of Irish-Catholic immigration to America began over 165 years ago, I think Irish-Americans have managed to maintain their Irish identity in America quite admirably. Certainly much better than the English, Germans, Dutch or Scandinaivians have. And Ireland didn't have a particularly great and glorious history to rely on the way England, Germany or Italy did. All the Irish had was pride in themselves as a race of people who refused to disappear and refused to be conquered. They also were proud of their Church and they made it their mission to build the Catholic church here in America. And ofcourse the strong Irish Nationalist fervor in America had a direct influence on Britain's reluctant decision to let most of Ireland break free of the United Kingdom in 1922 at the very climax of their empire.

• srcarrvt | Sep 22, 2010, 07:29 PM EDT

  My mother spoke Irish only when she was angry...and lucky me I heard it often! I would absolutely love to learn Irish, but, like most folks my pocketbook is rather lean, and the funds are quite limited. Would someone please clue me into an inexpensive way of learning it ( other than making the move to Ireland! LOL ) thank's for your trouble...

• BrendanPKeane | Sep 22, 2010, 05:55 PM EDT

  Irish is in a strange state. It's growing and it's shrinking. It's growing in schools, publishing, government and media. Irish bands often record their hit songs in Irish after theyve release the familiar original in English. These things are the rumblings those of us in the Irish community know about and are trying to tell "Irish" people about. If the attitude shifts, and people can speak it in public without offending those who fear being excluded from this renewed Irishness, then the phenomenon of Irish resurgence would become more evident to tourists like GeorgeDillon who would do better to make friends with Irish people than calling them names. If you enter Irish community as a friend, you discover the secret language is very much alive and pure magic to learn.

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 22, 2010, 03:40 PM EDT

  Keane: You are living in fantasy land. On countless visits to Ireland, I have only ONCE heard Irish spoken spontaneously (a young father to his children in St Stephens Park in Dublin. When I congratulated him --in my quite decent Americanized Irish--he replied rather rudely.) The fact is that a large number of Irish people hate the Irish language. That's pathological, weird. The great mass remaining are apathetic, while maybe 2% try to keep it alive. A good number--but still a small minorioty--send their children to Irish speaking schools. That's a farce because while the children do learn a kind of patois in the schools, it ain't Irish. It's a totally bastardized argot, and has as much in common with Irish as Spanish Harlem Spanglish has with the language of Toledo or Bogota. And the kids come home and the parents speak to them in English. You see the parents make their children learn Irish but they're too lazy to do so themselves. On several occasions Irish people have said to me that Irish should be abandoned and Polish or Chinese taught in the schools. I find that attitude contemptible (so do several Poles I discussed this with) and I have as much respect for the Irish--the mass of them--as I have for a cockroach. As regards backbone and self respect, they're about equal.

• imuverin | Sep 22, 2010, 02:34 PM EDT

  MaryM get a life, you probably where Shamrocks on St.Patricks day. I was born in the Bronx and grew up in New Jersey, my parents where from Galway/Clare respectively, and spoke fluent IRISH in the house, unfortunately for me they felt their children where know born in America and did not need IRISH. How wrong they were I would love to speak the OLD IRISH language, I also love Shamrocks and Shillelaghs on St. Patrick's Day. All my cousins in Ireland speak fluent IRISH in there houses and more and more IRISH is spoken in business in Ireland, no matter what you say it grows every year

• slainte9 | Sep 22, 2010, 01:36 PM EDT

  As a cellist and wine lover, I'm more interested at the moment in discovering my Celtiberian heritage. The food and wine are better. James McManus, Phoenix Santiago y cierra Espana!

• Searlit | Sep 22, 2010, 12:02 PM EDT

  Brendan, I like your article, it really resonates with me. There is a consciousness of renewed hope that people will begin to fear less and love more.

• kell7757 | Sep 22, 2010, 11:56 AM EDT

  MaryM, or should I say Mary Mary quite contrary. . . why the rant? If you're not interested in your heritage or culture, that's your perogative, what is the point of criticizing those who are. It doesn't make someone UnAmerican to want to learn about and celebrate their Irish heritage. You are not correctly informed about the Irish language. First, the speakers and it's native country, call the lanugage Irish, not Gaelic Irish, or Irish Gaelic. Secondly, the laws to prevent use of the Irish language were never completely successful. My Grandfather (1881-1868) was a native and fluent speaker of Irish and also spoke English, as did his parents and all of his brothers and sisters. His wife, her brothers and sisters, and her Mother, my great-grandmother were native Irish speakers who also spoke fluent English, all all and well in the 20th century. Look at any of the census records of 1911 1901 of families in Cork, Galway, Limerick, Kerry, and you'll see how ubiquitous the Irish language was. I don't understand the "illegal alien" angle. Personally I'm against anyone trying to enter any country illegally, be it this one or any other, and am opposed to amnesty. English is the official language of the US, and it's the officially spoken language of Ireland (though not the official language). Why would preserving one's heritage make you so angry? The Irish language is part of the soul of Ireland. Not to mention there still are thousands in Ireland for whom it is their daily and first language.

• susanfran11 | Sep 22, 2010, 11:33 AM EDT

  My grandmother and grandfather spoke Gaelic to us all in the family home at Astoria, Queens. It was a magic language that you could glimmer as we walked down the sidewalks of New York. It was never spoken in the workplace; the "No Irish Need Apply" signs insured this. It was not a "dead" language, but part of a suppressed culture- grudgingly in the United States, by law in Eire. But speaking Gaelic at home did not make my grandfather [who fought in WWI] or my uncles [USNavy; WWII and Korea] lesser patriots than my siblings [US Navy; Vietnam, Dessert Strom]. The right to speak a language which held the hearts of my grandparents, as well as the right to walk into whatever church they chose, makes them American first, and Irish-American proud.

• Cherishfan | Sep 22, 2010, 10:48 AM EDT

  Growing up in the North Bronx in the 40s in a mostly Irish, Irish-American neighborhood, my experiences are the same as MaryM232.

• BrendanPKeane | Sep 22, 2010, 10:43 AM EDT

  MaryM232: I'm going to guess that you are sitting on a crap-filled diaper, because you sound like a hateful old bag. No one is proposing the Irish give up English. Long live English!! Everyone should learn it, especially if you come to the United States. You have completely misunderstood my point. Irish Americans are connecting to Ireland in deeper ways, from Harvard to CUNY, with Irish language courses. You decided to turn that into an anti-immigrant and anti-Irish tirade.

• MaryM232 | Sep 22, 2010, 10:18 AM EDT

  Oh cripes, another pro-illegal alien huckster.. do you believe that we're stupid! Gaelic was outlawed in Ireland centuries before the first Irish immigrants arrived on these shores, thus the reason for Irish schools making Gaelic classes mandatory because it had become a lost language in Ireland. All Irish immigrants to the US, throughout our history spoke English, they didn't give up their language to assimilate, in fact they gladly assimilated, and embraced the freedoms the US offered, my grandparents on my father's side among them. The same can be said of Italian immigrants, they embraced the US and not only took their rights seriously, they respected the rights of others. Apparently, Keane thinks we've all just fallen off the potato truck, and are so ignorant, we believe any lies told to us. We know all about Ireland, our parents, grandparents informed us of the facts. Go peddle your BS elsewhere, try Ireland as they seem to fall for any baloney placed under their noses.

• emer333 | Sep 21, 2010, 10:46 PM EDT

  As always, I agree and disagree with many of your statements. Just taking the comment: "Irish Americans were told to assimilate by proving their Americanness" --Depending on when the Irish-American emigrated, from where and to where. Also a grat factor are the many kinds of Irish. Also, some Irish-Americans never lost their culture , like me, for example. I was fortunate to have my grandmother speak traditional Irish as her first language, and play traditional music. I have taken study to enjoy a richer and deeper understanding of "my" culture. My point is that we can't be lumped into one batch of people having the same experience. Also, I am not "Irish" or "American", but a hyphenated version. Go raibh maith agat ;) (Thank you)

• BrendanPKeane | Sep 21, 2010, 01:19 PM EDT

  súil eile = other eye

• BrendanPKeane | Sep 21, 2010, 01:08 PM EDT

  GeorgeDillon: More Irish can speak Irish than you would think from actual use of the language. Irish suffers a not-in-public taboo. It's really nothing more than that. Irish people will one day feel free to use their language on the streets of Ireland again, the way Poles feel comfortable speaking Polish on the streets of Ireland today. There's a tipping point approaching, where Irish media is going to break the English-Irish sound barrier on the streets. Every county in Ireland boasts Gaelscoileanna. One day Ireland will allow Irish back in public life without some asshole Irishry person feeling the post-colonial need to mock this renaissance.

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 21, 2010, 12:52 PM EDT

  Many Irish-Americans are more Irish than the Irish themselves. And I'm not even including all the foreigners in Ireland, the great majority of which (99.5%) show no interest in Irish language or culture. As to Seamus Blake, he's a treasure. I understand he was born here in the USA, but he speaks Irish Gaelic better than 98% of the Irish in Ireland.

• DennisQ | Sep 21, 2010, 12:14 AM EDT

  Bill Clinton certainly made some unique contributions to the English language, but who would have thought he was a student of the Irish language? He gave the world such Clintonisms as I did not have sex with that woman and It depends on what the meaning of is is.
  
  Hearing that Clinton was a student of the Irish language puts things in a different light. We now know what Clinton meant to say to the prosecutor: Tá an dá "b'fhéidir" ann - b'fhéidir go bhfuil agus b'fhéidir nach bhfuil.
  (There are the two "maybe's" - maybe it is and maybe it isn't.)