Ground Zero mosque? Not my favorite idea, but this is NYC
By: Brendan Patrick Keane | Published Friday, August 13, 2010, 3:10 PM | Updated Friday, September 9, 2011, 9:46 PM
[A follow-up piece to the article below was published on 10 August, called
Coming around on the Muslim Cultural Center near Ground Zero.]

In
New York, if you ask: Should we build a Muslim interpretation center near Ground Zero? you get two kinds of answers.
Bloomberg's "yes" is the kind you expect from a good judge. He reminds us that we have real estate laws in New York and you can not go discriminating against people that want to buy property. Similar principles apply to zoning, but there's more room to wiggle there. His answer is the official New York answer. I like it when society has principles you can count on.
Bloomberg made the Landmark Board's decision into a photo-op with the Statue of Liberty in the background. He wanted to make a point about religious freedom.
The mosque is not just a mosque, it's a multi-storied complex, that will interpret the events of 9/11. It seems more like an Islamic 9/11 Interpretation Center, than it does a house of worship being built for a community in the neighborhood. As a multi-purpose facility, it will become part of Ground Zero, and act like a museum with exhibits. As there were so many Muslim victims of 9/11, you would want their story to be present at Ground Zero with everyone else. With this new interpretation center (with mosque), Muslim victims of the attack will have an exceptional facility to tell their story.

Now ask the mayor another question. Ask him if we should build an Irish American Museum at Ground Zero?:
Here's where you get the second kind of answer.
The second kind is the one a lot of Irish American New Yorkers would give if asked whether they want to see a Muslim Museum at Ground Zero: no. Irish Americans are rightly sensitive about any perceived triumphalism by Muslims at Ground Zero in opening what would become a highly trafficked tourist attraction for the interpretation of these events.
This is not a Freedom of Religion argument. This is about shaping the Ground Zero zone. It's about what the city wants to zone for that area. There's already a mosque within walkng distance from Ground Zero. Building a mosque where there is no religious community demanding it, means the building is being built specifically with the 9/11 memorial in-mind. That's a zoning issue for a special space, that intends to do more than provide religious santuary. As such, it is appropriate for a zoning board to determine how such a facility would fit in with the vision for the Ground Zero area, as is normal in city planning.

It's better to keep the museums surrounding 9/11 about everybody in New York rather than specific victim groups. This is the basis of my initial feeling of objection to building an interpretation center there. It's not universal enough. It's inflammatory, not because of the terrorists, but because it gives one set of victims special recognition. Muslim died in the towers, as did many other groups.
Not all groups will have a center very near Ground Zero to present their story.
The British Garden of Remembrance was opened when the queen of
England cut the ribbon last month, years ahead of the opening for the Ground Zero memorial. You have to expect this kind of premature mythology-grabbing from those who wear crowns of diamonds snatched from Hindu statutes. One group is exalted of all the victims.

The British Garden, not the mosque, was the first step in what will become the politics of recognizing the loss of some, while forgetting others.
A Muslim interpretation center is an interesting idea, and will probably turn out splendidly, but it is bothersome that the Greek church destroyed on 9/11 will not be rebuilt, and that other groups won't have the resources available to the Muslim community or the British, to tell their story of that day.
This is about zoning the Ground Zero area properly, and it seems those decisions have been made.
I could make a good case for building an Irish American Museum at Ground Zero, and in the spirit of fairness, such an idea should be embraced as warmly as the Muslim Interpretation Center is being.

There were as many Irish American New Yorkers killed on 9/11 as other ethnic groups, and many of the Irish were killed running back up the towers to save others. But it feels wrong to say that. They wouldn't want to be singled out in especially. It's for everybody to grieve.

The most poignant reason for an Irish American museum in New York is the Firefighter response of men like Mychal Judge. Irish history in New York is wound up with the Fire Department. Less importantly, but still also heart-breaking to Irish New Yorkers--was the loss of a major chunk of our history on 9/11.
In the ground of downtown New York, they unearthed artefacts of the early city, and found early Irish slums and objects among the refuse. Precious bits of our ancestors' lives emerged including items that showed their wish to maintain "respectability" while living in squalor
as Rebecca Yamin has written.

The artefacts were bound to become an exhibit on Irish New York, and Archaeology magazine did a story called Digging about it. The 9/11 attacks destroyed many of the relics and much of the documentation that catalogued these items. We've been left in some cases with no clue about what was lost.
When they found the Irish artefacts and other materials from the Five Points dig, they were stored in the basement of
World Trade Center 6. When the WTC was destroyed, some of the objects to survive were excavated a second time, while rescue workers searched for the remains of friends and neighbors of all ethnic backgrounds.
43 Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.AmAncINED | Aug 09, 2010, 09:42 PM EDT
Right on target Sungold, Monsoonman, azwolfeagle, and BrendanP!
BrendanPKeane | Aug 09, 2010, 04:21 PM EDT
I never said it was a knife in the heart. I just think there are lots of victim groups from 9/11, Muslims among them. Singling out certain groups of victims, and not others, so close to Ground Zero, is disappointing to me, and opens up a politick downtown for competing monuments for each and every group of victims.
azwolfeagle | Aug 09, 2010, 03:10 PM EDT
When I think of New York and the Statue of Liberty. I think of my grand parents. I think of Ireland. I do not want to destroy or decay a fundamental truth about how it began. Before I would ever agree or accept a terrorist building at ground zero? Well I would not. I agree with the gentlemen Brendon's statement. I would build an American Eagle Monument!! Instead of knife in the Eagles heart.
Monsoonman | Aug 09, 2010, 10:09 AM EDT
I think that American public opinion, in fact world opinion would be tolerant and understanding towards the muslim religion if muslims were forceful and vocal against the extremists in their midst. If the muslim people turned against the extremists in masse, there would be no jihadists plotting against us. The silence from the majority of muslims regarding the violence is deafening.
Sungold | Aug 09, 2010, 12:26 AM EDT
Just curious...how many Muslims died in the 9-11 attacks, not counting the hijackers? Were any of them rescue workers, who died trying to help victims escape? I'm having a hard time picturing whose stories this "Interpretive Center" is supposed to help us understand. Like the author said, if we are going to start building museums for every ethnic or religious group who died that day, an extension may have to be built out into the Hudson River to hold them all. And I believe that the Irish-American version would have to be the largest. I'm sorry, but I'm not getting a "Center for Understanding" vibe from this proposed mosque. It seems more to me like a "victory monument", for which the Muslims are known.
AmAncINED | Aug 08, 2010, 04:57 PM EDT
DennisQ, I hope you're not thinking that Muslims have a right to hate us because America hasn't solved all their problems for them, like the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. The people on the airplanes weren't American government officials. The deaths of all the people on 9-11 CAN'T EVER be justified because a group of radical Muslim terrorists were disgruntled about whatever. They should have spent their time, money, and energy working to solve problems within their own countries instead of blowing up a lot of innocent people. It's so much easier for some Muslims to blame America for all their problems than to do the work themselves to improve their situation. And, yes, some of the male Muslim headcases resent that American women have so much "freedom." I've read their comments and have seen them speak on TV about how American women dress so immodestly and how Am. women shouldn't be doing this or that. Even that Arab commentator on CNN has said there is a lot jealousy by Muslims towards Americans and they resent the freedoms Americans enjoy.
BrendanPKeane | Aug 08, 2010, 12:08 PM EDT
DennisQ: I understand your point and I agree and have said so many times. If I question the wisdom of zoning this Muslim Interpretation Center of the events of 9/11 slash mosque so close to Ground Zero, it's because I am questioning whether it's fair to specify any particular group of victims. That point would be confused as anti-Islamic I guess, but it's really about fairness for all victim groups, including the Muslims who were murdered that day. Every group would want an interpetation center down there. The Irish lost a museum exhibit and many firefighters and cops and office workers. They don't get special recognition. No one should. Just my feeling.
teadoir | Aug 08, 2010, 09:48 AM EDT
I would be interested in where the funding is coming from. My understanding is that they only have $18K for the project, my guess is the the rest of the money is coming from the Middle East.
hancock | Aug 08, 2010, 01:31 AM EDT
Nobody on the Enola Gay was screaming God is great. What world do you live in.
DennisQ | Aug 07, 2010, 08:07 PM EDT
The attacks on September 11th were political, not religious. They've been sold to us as though they were religious, but we have political differences with Arabs quite apart from our religious differences. Japan recognizes that dropping the atomic bomb on two of their cities was similarly political, even though the American crew were Christians. We really should get to a greater understanding of what happened on September 11th. We're grownups! The notion that Muslims hate us for our freedom is childish. We should have rejected that the day Bush advanced that as the reason for the attack. Would anybody besides myself care to speculate what the real motives were? Is there anything else that bugs the Arabs besides our "freedom"?
peterson | Aug 07, 2010, 06:27 PM EDT
A mosque in the center of New York City. What an insult to the City that the Irish helped build and protect !!!
Searlit | Aug 07, 2010, 02:54 PM EDT
It is a beautiful cup though shattered and pieced together, again. A shrine, in itself to all those beleagured Irish who lived in such terrible conditions in NYC. Those Irish went to work and put their own character into the building of New York, and countless other cities, even as they re-built their own lives. Thanks for picturing it in your article, Brendan.
BrendanPKeane | Aug 07, 2010, 11:56 AM EDT
I think it's being called a mosque, when it should really be called An Islamic 9/11 Interpretation Center. The facilities are much more like a museum. Personally, I think that zone could use better museums, but it's not worth stigmatizing one group to say so.
vtucherov | Aug 07, 2010, 01:49 AM EDT
I wish that those who are all up in arms about this did a little homework. The proposed site isn't even visible from Ground Zero.
krisdaly | Aug 07, 2010, 01:03 AM EDT
Let the Muslim children of Satan build their satanic temple at Ground Zero and let the Irish children of Jesus the "Christ" turn the temple of Satan into a Temple for "Our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Son of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
teddybear | Aug 06, 2010, 06:29 PM EDT
Buid a mosque fine but NOT AT GROUND ZERO.
eileenkny | Aug 06, 2010, 05:24 PM EDT
I recently heard on Good Morning America that a Greek Orthodox church, St. Nicholas, was destroyed on 9/11. Why has this community not been given a green light to rebuild? Will there be as many fundraisers for this church? Somehow, I don't think so. How did it get so bad? Why do we have to kowtow to everyone?
McNamara31 | Aug 06, 2010, 05:20 PM EDT
I love the inscription on the child's cup from the Five Points..."Who turned aside her aged head....And even tears of gladness Shed... Because I gave the Beggar Bread" It's a true example of Irish ideals of empathy and compassion from years gone by.
rooster483 | Aug 06, 2010, 04:04 PM EDT
im getting sick just hearing that people talking about how we can not hurt the muslims feelings on this issue. the mayor is playing political football with this issue too,that also infuriates me too. as a carpenter in new york city who lost a cousin and a few friends when the towers fell,i take the fact that this iman wants to built a mosque and a place where he thinks they were victorious as a major slap in the face to all the people who worked on the recovery and all the famlies of lost ones and to the workers that are working down there as we speak to rebuild this massive attack on the united states. before there is any ok on this mosque,there should be more time given to investigate this socalled man of peace,and to find out where this money to build this mosque is coming from. when a construction contractor is applying to build in new york city he is given a certian list of questions he has to answer before he can even build. why? is this building being given a fast track to be built and why are all these politicians backing this mosque in the name of religious freedom? we are still recovering and trying to build a peaceful and respectful place where we are attacked and why are they letting this mosque get in the way. hopefully, our mayor will come to his senses and side with the people and unions that helped him get elected again.
patrick1945 | Aug 06, 2010, 03:44 PM EDT
Remember the people lost in the towers not anything or anyone else.
Searlit | Aug 06, 2010, 03:36 PM EDT
Building an interpretation center, is one thing, building it 2 blocks away from Ground Zero, is quite another. It doesn't feel right.
DeaconJack | Aug 06, 2010, 03:23 PM EDT
They should allow the Mosque to be built,---but NOT in NYC, but in Mecca where it and all the towel heads belong. The US is becoming so PC that it will drown in its own swamp of it's own making.
CaliforniaShamrock | Aug 06, 2010, 03:23 PM EDT
What about the Muslims that were killed in the World Trade towers? This is an attempt to bridge the divide between Muslims and other Americans - give them a chance NY! The terrorists were misguided Muslims whom a Muslim friend of mine said "were going to hell not heaven" Not all Muslims are our enemies!!!
boydshield | Aug 06, 2010, 03:03 PM EDT
Brendan Patrick Keane, I agree 100%. I think building a mosque where so many died at the hands of Muslim Terrorists, is not supporting tolerance and inclusion, but keeping the wounds open by manipulating NYC into thinking the Muslims are getting a bad rap, just by beingMuslim. In a 60 Minutes interview on September 30, 2001, shortly after the September 11 attacks,Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said, "Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam", and went on to say, "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened." When the interviewer asked Rauf how he considered the U.S. an accessory, he replied, "Because we have been accessory to a lot of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA." In an interview on New York WABC radio in June 2010, he declined to say whether he agreed with the U.S. State Department's designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization. Nothing he has done or said shows me he is consistent with simplicity of faith and sensitivity towards others. I agree with you in this article.
jflanagan | Aug 06, 2010, 02:26 PM EDT
Tolerance is one thing but it goes both ways. They could, and really show healing, offer to move a few blocks farther away. Most, I think, would change their feelings over this. Another thing I saw on ABC News last night was the Church called St. Nicholas is still looking for City permission to rebuild. The city or the state even sold the land that was earmarked for the rebuilding to the Port Authority, further delaying the construction for more years. Yet there is no tolerance, compassion or expedition for the Christian Church (not sure if it is a RC or other christian religion). Seems many speak out of both sides of their mouths.
IrishLass127 | Aug 06, 2010, 01:32 PM EDT
Simply put, it just adds insult to injury and psychologically would do far more harm. Forget trying to be politically correct and think about the real effects this would have on NYC's population.
DennisQ | Aug 06, 2010, 01:27 PM EDT
We really should have a new investigation into the events of September 11th, this one by people without a conflict of interest. The last investigation was directed by Philip Zelikow, a personal friend and co-author of Condoleezza Rice. Needless to say, Zelikow steered the investigation away from Rice's many failures to anticipate the attack or to develop a counterstrategy. The new investigation shouldn't be afraid to name names and identify critical mistakes that our enemies were able to exploit. We've spent billions and billions of dollars on national defense, only to see one system after another collapse in a real world situation. Who's responsible? Are the clowns who failed to prevent 9/11 still around?
adrienrain | Aug 06, 2010, 01:14 PM EDT
My goodness, as a Californian, I am quite aware of the absurd importance New Yorkers tend to attach to their city, but just how much of New York was made sacrosanct by the "events of 9/11," anyway? The Muslim center - which includes an art center and so on - is TWO BLOCKS away from the twin towers site. Apparently it was hit by part of a landing gear, which in some people's eyes, is like a piece of the True Cross. While we're on the subject, however, St. Nick's a Greek Orthodox church was damaged irreparably that day, and those who wish to rebuild it have been told it is too tall to rebuild. NOT FAIR. So get on it, ye saintly New Yorkers.
odubhlaoich | Aug 06, 2010, 12:32 PM EDT
Two blocks away is a long distance in a crowded town like New York. And how about letting New Yorkers decide? Finally, how can this be any worse than sharing a neighborhood with Wall Street. Now there's an institution that has ruined the lives of millions of Americans.
FastEddy | Aug 06, 2010, 11:30 AM EDT
BTW: Irishmen are to be excluded from the mosque ... but you all can visit the "cultural" center!
Bridgbldr | Aug 06, 2010, 11:07 AM EDT
I don't know why my previous post regarding the history of Muslims building mosques on the sites of their "victories" was not put up here. It was respectful and gave a link to the article by Wafa Sultan, a moderate Muslim, at the Hudson-NY.org web site. Perhaps moderate voices are being silenced here as well? BTW, the "Cultural Center" houses a mosque and is therefore considered as such,
JamesMurphy | Aug 06, 2010, 10:49 AM EDT
People who practice a peaceful faith should not be ostracized because of the horrific acts of a fanatical few. The cultural center--it is not a mosque--designated for a site near Ground Zero will, I believe, help bridge a cultural divide between Muslims and those of us who share other faiths.
bronxjames | Aug 06, 2010, 10:30 AM EDT
I hope the f--king thing collapses
bostonblakie | Aug 06, 2010, 10:25 AM EDT
Let me see freedom of worship in Saudi Arabia and I might be willing to consider a Ground Zero presence for Muslims.
McGivern10 | Aug 06, 2010, 10:04 AM EDT
I know:.... The Muslims should not be allowed to set up a "victory center" near the site of a premeditated mass murder carried out by them. They should not be defended or speach made politically correct for them. They are murders as it says in Holy Scripture "by their works you shall know them." They are wrong and the way try to do things is the way of evil and tyrants.
mayoman | Aug 06, 2010, 09:57 AM EDT
The miserable scum that destroyed the WTC and killed 3,000 people do not represent all Muslims. Just as all priests should not be suspected or condemned of pedophilia because of the sins of a few of their brothers, we should not condemn innocent Muslims, or prevent them from erecting a cultural center. because some fanatics attacked all of us. Nor should we display the sort of religious and ethnic intolerance and hatred that was shown by the murderers on 9/11. These are fellow Americans after all, that wish to build this cultural center. What are we so incensed about?
pounder | Aug 06, 2010, 09:52 AM EDT
How do you think Bloomberg amassed his billions? With a lttle help from his Muslim brothers.It's payback time.
manhattan | Aug 06, 2010, 09:13 AM EDT
Excellent column Mr. Keane. Not only did so mant Irish Americans perish on 9/11 they built the towers also. I'm so glad you brought up the horrible conditions the Irish suffered when escaping the famine they ended up in the slums of the 5 points. I was born and raised in Manhattan , went to catholic school etc. etc. but never heard of what those Irish went through until I was at the feat of San Genaro and walking past Old St.Patricks church I saw a sign that sais "catacombs open today." Down under the church there are tombs built into the wall. I was so shocked to see they all had Irish names most of the dates were 1847,48 and on. Then I searched for all the information I could get on that sad forgotten period in OUR history. We just are not a people who brag or bring attention to ourselves. So, thank you Mr. Keane for once I'm not mad at you. Paricia
TheOldPerfessor | Aug 06, 2010, 09:04 AM EDT
The last I checked, we still had freedom of religion in this country. If the Tea Party crowd abolishes that, I'm outta here.
Portia777 | Aug 06, 2010, 08:59 AM EDT
The irish Genocide- aka Famine might warrent a memorial though with the word Genocide on it, coupled with the Genocide of 200 million native Americans who were also exterminated by the British, and to whom the American people still pay money to.
Portia777 | Aug 06, 2010, 08:56 AM EDT
Typical Patriarchy to divide and rule the sheeple. No one in their right mind would build anything in that area unless they belong to some death cult and like to mix with death vibrations
BrendanPKeane | Aug 05, 2010, 09:47 PM EDT
It's less than two blocks away, but I have to check. There was a press conference about it, so it's close enough. It's not just a mosque, it's a big multi-floor cultural center that will be used to exhibit an interpretation of the 9/11 events. The mosque thing is like a pub in a theater, it's not the point of the thing, you're there to see a play not have a pint. There's no big Muslim community needing a house of worship in that neighborhood. The so-called Irish museum is actually an open art-piece with no space for exhibits at all.
GanAinm | Aug 05, 2010, 06:47 PM EDT
Yes, real estate and zoning laws were applied to the City's decision on the mosque, but the overarching law implemented throgh them both was nothing less than the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The analogy of the proposed mosque to a hypothetical proposed Irish museum "at Ground Zero" is facile, not only because the mosque is not proposed to be built "at Ground Zero", but a few blocks away. Different principles would apply if a such a museum were to be propsed (either at Ground Zero or a few blocks away, which is where the mosque will be) because a museum is not a house of worship. It would have been more appropriate to compare the mosque to a hypothetical Catholic Church to be built a few blocks away (not happening, there's been one forever - and, no I'm not equating Catholocism and Irish"ness"). BTW, an Irish museum in the same street as the mosque, some two blocks from the WTC in the tight warren of streets downtown would be fine also,as is the Irish Hunger memorial we already have there. All commemorative structures on Ground Zero itself (not two or ten or 50 blocks or whatever is convenient for posturing right wing politicians) should be strictly reserved to the memory of the victims. (is that 18th century ship they found excavating the site going to be displayed anywhere? I hope so.)