Why Irish gays march under their own banners in St. Pat's Parade
By: Cahir O'Doherty | Published Friday, November 12, 2010, 8:50 AM | Updated Friday, September 9, 2011, 9:54 PM
For years the final question that even well-meaning people ask about the ongoing controversy about the Saint Patrick's Day Parade is why do Irish gay groups insist on marching under their own banner?
Heterosexuals don't do it, they observe, so why should gays?
It's a good question. Here's the answer: If no one can see you, or your struggle, it's much easier to pretend you don't exist. Invisibility is the very thing that prevents you from achieving equality.
Believe it or not there are hundreds of thousands of Irish American LGBT citizens and the people who want to dismiss them out of hand are greatly helped when if they agree to airbrush themselves out of the picture. If you go quietly, you go unnoticed.
As no less a man than Gerry Adam's once observed (and gay equality groups are reluctantly discovering) in this world you get as much freedom as you take.
So the point of Irish gays marching under their own banners isn't to celebrate or promote homosexuality. They're not trying to persuade you or anyone to explore their sexual orientation. They're not insisting you embrace values you don't share.
No, they're fighting for their own lives.
Their point is counteract the fact that the only time a majority of people hear about gays in America is when they're being used as a crude pejorative.
If you're openly gay, let's face it, there are no county societies who'll be lining up to invite you; the GAA (a well-worn route to a new life in America) won't be the first organization you'll turn to; most Irish Catholic groups will look askance at you; and even the annual parade of all things Irish has gone to court to keep you out.
Talk about a Cead Mile Failte, eh?
And what does choosing Mary Higgins Clark say about the parade? She's 82, the embodiment of the values of an earlier age. And that makes anxiety about whether she'll complete the route real. We all acknowledge her achievements and class, but her selection (after President Mary McAleese's decision to decline) says something about the frozen in time outlook of the parade committee.
If Irish gays collude in the decades long campaign to sweep them under the carpet, or put them back in the closet, or if they even momentarily pretend that they have achieved legal equality with heterosexuals (when they certainly have not) they'd be foolish in the extreme.
It's completely disingenuous to ask why do you have to march under their own banners if you know that gay people don't have the same rights as you do. If you aren't daily working to support their equality under the law yourself, if you're not willing to stand with them, then perhaps you can finally appreciate now why they're standing up for themselves.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.SCVMal | Nov 09, 2010, 01:07 AM EST
Sungold, the largest number of gay people were elected to the US Congress this year! And now there are 3 openly gay Senators. They weren't elected for their good looks, but because of the respect of the voters! Now. Close your eyes...and try to imagine Macy's without gay employees! They don't have to march in the parade as a group! They ARE Macy's!! LOL!!!!
SCVMal | Nov 09, 2010, 01:03 AM EST
But jamieLM, President Mary McAleese's refusal to be Grand Marshall was because the Parade was turned into a Roman Catholic Church event (and no longer a celebration of Irish Heritage!) which excludes Irish people who happen to be gay. The parade committee is a bunch of 15th century pharrtes!
SCVMal | Nov 09, 2010, 12:55 AM EST
Hey "truthseeking". Your handle is a misnomer! I was accepting your thoughtful objections to my post until the end. Why the hell would any parent have to explain "STDs, felching, dental dams and the other minutiae of modern sodomy to their 6-year-olds." for ANY reason? These things are not exclusive to the gay community, but also to the "normal" heterosexual majority. I sadly think that you are the fanatic!
maloney | Nov 08, 2010, 06:12 PM EST
The more the lgbt posters push their agenda with nonsence, the more I'm beginning to think the closet was a good idea.
jamieLM | Nov 08, 2010, 09:27 AM EST
Wearing a wedding band does NOT necessarily mean you're straight. A man could be wearing a wedding band and be on the "down-low." A woman could be part of a lesbian couple - legally married or not. Not all married straight women/men wear their wedding bands for a variety of reasons. Some "married" women know that, secretly, they're lesbians. It's risky to make assumptions about people based on whether or not they wear wedding bands.
hollabackgurl | Nov 07, 2010, 10:13 PM EST
It's the height of bigotry to call the LGBT equality in law struggle a sexual agenda. When women struggled for a vote and equal pay was that a sexual agenda? Its about equality under the law and thats all.
hollabackgurl | Nov 07, 2010, 10:08 PM EST
If you wear a wedding band you do realize that you're shouting "I'm straight! Look at me, I'm straight! I'm married! Look!" right? Plus Irish Sovereignty groups, political organizations etc all march. There's room for other Irish organizations, God knows the parade could use some diversity. And seamusmoore you admit yourself your county society didn't invite you, so how is that statement false?
jamieLM | Nov 07, 2010, 12:37 PM EST
I'm with Sungold. Have the parade to celebrate St. Patrick and being Irish and stop using it to push political and social agendas. There are many St. Pat's parades in the U.S. that manage to do just that. Everyone lines up and marches - Irish Catholics AND Irish Protestants, all marching under St. Patrick and Irish banners - just one big happy proud group. I'm sure there are Irish gays and lesbians marching, too, but they don't do so with a banner announcing it and neither do the Protestants. The focus should be on being proud of one's Irish heritage and honoring St. Patrick - period. If you don't want to do that, skip the parade. Btw, many of these parades are led by the Irish Mother of the Year. These women are always worthy of the honor to lead the parades.
seamusmoore | Nov 07, 2010, 10:01 AM EST
I have a gay relation who marches every year under a county banner; to say "no county societies would line up to invite you" is a falsehood. They don't even check if you are active with the county society, just line up with them on St Pat's Day.
Sungold | Nov 07, 2010, 04:40 AM EST
Sorry, I don't buy the argument that gays must march in other people's parades and carry their banners identifying themselves as gay, because they're "fighting for their lives". Why does everything always have to be about announcing "I'm gay! Gay, gay, gay! Look at me, I'm gay!" This is an Irish parade. I've never heard of any gay Irish groups involved in anything else Irish, except trying to force their way into the St. Patrick's Day parade. Are they allowed to march as a group in Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade? If not, are they suing Macy's or running to the news media over that? Please...if you really want to be in the parade, join one of the service organizations that march. Think about doing good for others for a change, instead of pushing your sexual agenda 24/7. You can't force people to respect you. That, like acceptance, must be earned.
hollabackgurl | Nov 06, 2010, 01:19 PM EDT
Irish GLBT marchers won't be wearing leather thongs. For one, March 17 is damn cold in NYC; for two, it's disgusting and bigoted to say that acknowledging you're gay means you're somehow having sex by just turning up with every other Irish American group who marches. Gay people are more "normal" than you, "Truthseeking."From your comments it's clear you have more issues than National Geographic.
truthseeking | Nov 06, 2010, 10:46 AM EDT
Dear SCVMalcolm: I'm curious as to your position on the natural and Constitutionally-protected right of the AOH or any other parade sponsor to define the rules, standards, image and message of their event. Do you support the right of both the AOH and the gay groups that sponsor the NYC Gay Pride Parade to decide what messages can be advertized on banners in their marches? I do. But do you want the government to crush our freedom of speech and assembly by determining the image and message of all our parades. I don't think you do (or at least you won't admit to championing totalitarianism). Secondly, do you agree with me that there are both public and private events that should NOT be sexualized by groups proclaiming who they want to have sex with? Shouldn't a privately organized parade celebrating St. Patrick's evangelization in Ireland be one of those G-rated family events that doesn't require parents to explain STDs, felching, dental dams and the other minutiae of modern sodomy to their 6-year-olds. I hope you agree, but I fear you're too fanatical to join the overwhelming majority of normal folks who don't want all our public events sexualized by the pathetically self-centered ILGO minority within the homosexual minority.
peterson | Nov 05, 2010, 09:16 PM EDT
Our Lord was be a parade spectator. I wonder how he feels about this.
SCVMal | Nov 05, 2010, 08:48 PM EDT
Kilgara. Your way of thinking is an abomination! Jesus is my guide and not Pope Benny, the Protector of those who ARE abominations: Those who rape and sexually molest innocent children, and the Bishops and Cardinals who protect these bastards from the law! More than 95% or pedophiles are heterosexual and 5% of that lot are women!
SCVMal | Nov 05, 2010, 08:43 PM EDT
Sorry rebelforce. At least get your data STRAIGHT! The St. Patrick's Parade in NY is registered as a Religious (Roman Catholic) Parade sponsored by the Ancient (I'll say!) Order of Hibernation, hence their religious right to exclude Irish folks who happen to be gay, the other groups CHOSE to be with whom they are affiliated. The Columbus Day, Puerto Rican Day, Pulaski Day Parades, while effectively Catholic, are cultural celebrations and therefore include gays, atheists, etc. who happen to be of the particular nationality, unlike the parade of green clad bigots that sponsor the St. Patrick's Day Parade in NYC!
elektros | Nov 05, 2010, 05:30 PM EDT
Dublinjas, that's fighting talk.
hollabackgurl | Nov 05, 2010, 03:37 PM EDT
Rebelforce, the India day parade and the Israel day parade in NYC welcome gay marchers - do does the Saint Pat's in Dublin - so I'm glad you're open to rational thought.
hollabackgurl | Nov 05, 2010, 03:34 PM EDT
If it's a Catholic parade then does it discriminate against everyone who is not? Are protestants excluded? Are atheists excluded? Are the Army, Navy and Police Force excluded? No they are not. It's you who needs to think about the implications of that Kilgara. And please, the Bible comes doen far harder on adulterers and divorcees. Are we going to prevent Rudy Giuliani from marching? You're full of it.
kilgara | Nov 05, 2010, 03:23 PM EDT
Folks, this is a CATHOLIC parade to honor a CATHOLIC saint. The CATHOLIC church has always maintained that homosexual behavior is an abomination, so the idea that people who support and practice that same abomination should be allowed to proclaim and promote it in this parade is beyond absurd.Think about it.
rcrdskpr@aol.com | Nov 05, 2010, 02:54 PM EDT
aahh, the irish gaylicks, sure and begorrah you wouldnt want some of them too close behint you and tailgating. and some of them lipstick lezzies are after the same women you are. dont forget the two gay irishmen, henry fitzpatrick and patrick fitzhenry.
Rebelforce | Nov 05, 2010, 02:40 PM EDT
I think it would be a lot easier for Irish gays to make their case if they were able to point to gay groups marching in the Columbus Day, Puerto Rican Day, Thanksgiving Day or Pulaski Day parades and say, "other parades welcome gay groups marching, so why can't you?" But these parades don't welcome gay groups either. It seems the only parade targeted for gay inclusion over the years is the St Patrick's Day parade. Which raises the question, Why is that? St Patrick's Day has traditionally been a day focusing on celebrating Irishness, not whether you have a gay, straight, bi or asexual orientation.
hollabackgurl | Nov 05, 2010, 01:58 PM EDT
I think you must be a remedial reader, "Truthseeking." This article clearly says that gays marching under their own banner isn't about gay sex either. It's about representation and achiving equality under the law. Irish American gay people pay more taxes for less representation. Telling them to stay invisible suits you, not them. That's selfish of you, not them.
truthseeking | Nov 05, 2010, 01:44 PM EDT
Dear hollabackgurl: Since you surely pride yourself on your love of diversity, I hope you'll join me in this little song about our amazing richness of difference: Some of our parades are not like the others. Some of our parades are not the same. Some of our parades are not about gay sex. Can you try to get that into your brain?! Swing it.
hollabackgurl | Nov 05, 2010, 01:26 PM EDT
40% of the homeless youth population in America is gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, yet only make up 3 to 5% of the general youth population. They're being kicked out of their own homes by disapproving parents. What does that tell you about family values?
killowen | Nov 05, 2010, 12:55 PM EDT
March under an Ian Paisley banner - it has adquate colors for all hues, of other than we regard as normal.
Dublinjas | Nov 05, 2010, 12:35 PM EDT
Why don't you gays march under your own county Cork banner.
talon3355 | Nov 05, 2010, 12:06 PM EDT
They're not insisting you embrace values you don't share" I understand President McAleese statement about groups being visible but I have a problem when one spokesperson for this group has no control over the mass that they influence. An example, Speaker Christen Quinn has always been outspoken about gays being not seen in the St Patrick’s Day Parade NY. My problem with this Quinn is not responsible for people that do go over the line a try to influence others. (Quinn is an opponent for the Dublin St Patrick’s parade because they allow Gays to identify this fact. Well in a Gay’s mag one of her follower (quoting Quinn) said that the Bishop of Dublin agreed with their actions because he was there in the stands participating in the parade. This is not true per Fr Des. Academic NI. AS Fr Des Wilson say Diversity of people is important but their actions does not mean everone has to be what they do.
slainte9 | Nov 05, 2010, 12:04 PM EDT
It's a shame to condemn anyone to a life of loneliness. But pick your battles, is what you gain from annoying people with boycotts of certain parades worth the support you lose on the right to visit a loved one in a hospital. The Arizona immigration boycott sure backfired on you, didn't it.
hollabackgurl | Nov 05, 2010, 11:35 AM EDT
Gay Irish people have no arguement with the AOH or any other Irish organization. They standing up for themselves, they're not standing against anyone. If you support equality and the American constituition you should stand with them. It's that simple.
truthseeking | Nov 05, 2010, 11:26 AM EDT
Cathir Doherty: Do you support the "right" of recovered homosexuals (Harvest, for instance) who've abandoned the dead-end lifestyle to march behind banners in NYC's Gay Pride Parade that outrage the parade organizers and sponsors? Of course you don't. You're a little progressive commissar who doesn't believe in the natural, God-given, supposedly constitutionally-protected rights of the AOH to freedom of speech and assembly. You're the lavender velvet glove on the totalitarian fist, the very fist that will smash the genuine anti-war Democrats who try to protest against Obama's bloody imperialism at the 2012 convention. Cathir, don't bother appealing to the natural rights crowd when the empire turns on you.
errigal | Nov 05, 2010, 11:04 AM EDT
Who is this woman Mary Higgins? Why would I go all the way to New york to see a 82 year old woman. She may turn into a frozen pastie by the time cold March arrives. What does she have to offer? I have been to many St.Pat's Parades in my life time. I have a few words. Invisibility,Anonymous,Equality. Toss the carpets out. Put a Beautifull Mirror on the Closet Door or a painting. ( Gerry Adams was right) Make the most of your life only you can do it.
Jamaicelt | Nov 05, 2010, 10:37 AM EDT
Even though homosexuals are only 2% of the US population, I am sure they feel encouraged by the fact that an equally tiny minority of the US population completely dominates US foreign policy.
hancock | Nov 05, 2010, 10:29 AM EDT
March with your county. I guess that would be too easy.
hollabackgurl | Nov 05, 2010, 10:28 AM EDT
Why limit your self definition to being heterosexual, Maithcraic? Is there something you want to tell us? I'm actually more tired of your standing in the way of other people's futures. Define your own self on your own time, eh?
Maithcraic | Nov 05, 2010, 10:19 AM EDT
Why limit your self definition to being homosexual. A person is so much more than their sexuality. Only homosexuals go around defining themselves by their sexuality. Everyone else says they are Irish, American, Jewish, Catholic, Italian, etc. Heterosexuals don’t define themselves as straight. Most people are tires of this constantly complaining. Move on. Define yourselves more broadly.
hollabackgurl | Nov 05, 2010, 09:15 AM EDT
You've just proved the writers point, Maithcraic. If you don't want to hear another word about gay equality, then vote to ensure it - otherwise it's you who needs to shut up. Simple, eh?
Maithcraic | Nov 05, 2010, 09:09 AM EDT
I am so sick about homosexuals whining. Why dont you go back in the closet and shut up. You are about 2% of the population but you act like your are the most important agenda. Just do your thing, noone cares. but shut up.