By: Cahir O'Doherty | Published Wednesday, August 24, 2011, 2:37 PM | Updated Friday, September 9, 2011, 10:24 PM
If you've ever been to Tuscany in Italy you'll know how near to Heaven the region is. Grapes grow effortlessly on the vine, olives and tomatoes can be plucked right from the kitchen window and the air at night is filled with stars.
But Britain, on the other hand, just had the coldest July for 50 years.
Like Ireland, the ordinary working class folk there are settling in to a hard diet of austerity, rising taxes and biting social welfare cuts. Times are getting pretty thin. It's about as far from the perfumed opulence of Tuscany as its possible to get.
So spare a thought for David Cameron, the beleaguered British Prime Minister, who had to curtail his idyllic Italian holiday this week to return to the grim situation rooms of Whitehall - all to contend with the horrendous and rapidly spreading riots engulfing England.
As Cameron's plane landed in London on Monday he must have felt the world was coming unglued.
First he has had the massive News of The World scandal to contend with, as revelations of years of corruption and breathtaking arrogance threatened even his own premiership. Then at the weekend a protest over a police killing lit an all-too flammable fuse and sparked epic street riots that have now spread to Liverpool and Birmingham.
It began as a protest but it quickly descended into anarchy and lawlessness; these nightly confrontations are terrifying in their violence and frightening in their pointlessness; but they have not come out of nowhere and they're about more than just urban alienation or aggression.
Anyone who tells you otherwise has no appetite for reality. It's not erroneous to accuse the rioters of criminality - but you shouldn't just stop there. Something's shifting in the wider British culture and you're kidding yourself if you pretend not to see it.
All you need to do is look at the scale of the riots now engulfing London - they pass from district to district, they're highly organized and they're growing.
It's not just the thought of stealing a HDTV or the entertainment factor of petty vandalism that luring these masked youths onto their own streets to set them alight. As report after report is showing, the rioters do genuinely hate the police - who they see as hired flunkies - and behind that they hate their government.
Deep cuts to education spending and welfare, the closing doors of opportunity, the near certainty that the economy won't get better for years, and the sense of having been completely cut off and left adrift - these awarenesses are all in the mix.
Thinking back we got our first foretaste of what was to come when the Rolls Royce carrying Prince Charles and his wife Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall was attacked on their way to the theatre last year.
A mob of around 50 demonstrators managed to muscle past their police escort to throw paint bombs at their car, kicking its doors and smashing its rear window — all the while chanting 'off with their heads!' and 'Tory scum!'
Armed protection was traveling with the two royals on the night and someone could quite easily have been shot dead. It's a measure of how far the times are out of line that had become a real consideration.
But there's a sense, in England, especially among young working class people there, that their leaders have no plan for them and no interest in their futures. The Murdoch trial has just shown them a world where the absurdly rich and well connected can make and play by their own rules, without - as yet - significant consequences.
Inside her Rolls Royce, dressed in a green evening gown with a diamond-encrusted emerald necklace, Camilla's shock was clear on her face. Every aristocrat in every decade of history has worn a similar expression when confronted by underclasses who have decided they've had enough.
I imagine Cameron is contemplating his options now, with the memory of those olive groves and August sunlight still fresh in his mind. He lives a world away from the people who's fates he now has to contend with. He always has. I don't think he'll be in a mood to compromise.
And I don't think shooting these kids off the streets is going to work at all. They've already had most of the hope squeezed out of them. They're more dangerous than most of us imagine. I suspect we're at the start of something, not the end.
The rioters are from varied communities the are part of the class-ridden English society.
oaklongan | Aug 10, 2011, 06:00 PM EDT
antoman: Hats off...Your sobering thought.
themurphia | Aug 10, 2011, 11:05 AM EDT
Not 'working class'...working class people are decent hard working contributors to society these people are parasites...I am funding their life of leisure...it's about time the Govt demanded some quid pro quo for the welfare cheque...if you are fit and able to go out and riot and of working age then you should have to do some community work get some 'work' experience...in order to have something to show to a prospective employer...What employer is going to look at a candidate whose pedigree is a background of welfare 'entitlement'...? Employers want people with initiative and drive...If you want a supported lifestyle then try giving something back to Society...look at the News who are the people out cleaning the steets after the carnage of the last few days...?People go to work to pay bills feed their kids keep a roof over their heads and support their families...these people do not need to work because all that is provided for them...'In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act'...
jamieLM | Aug 10, 2011, 10:13 AM EDT
Thank you Sparklet. antoman - you were right. I saw pictures on NBC last night that showed a bookstore that was not looted. All of the other stores around it were. The remark was made that they guessed no one was interested in reading or owning any books.
themurphia | Aug 10, 2011, 08:40 AM EDT
Yep the police just indiscriminately shot him...!
AlainnCath | Aug 10, 2011, 08:29 AM EDT
Let’s not forget that the riots began because a 29-year old named Mark Duggan was killed. There may be opportunistic people involved in these riots, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that a young man’s life was stolen from him. Libya, Syria, Egypt, and now Britain, people had better wake up from their snooze, because as history has taught us, it can happen anywhere. Look up what happen to Kelly Thomas in Fullerton CA, and Oscar Grant, injustice is injustice and it angers us unimportant people.
AlainnCath | Aug 10, 2011, 08:09 AM EDT
Let’s not forget that the riots began because a 29-year old named Mark Duggan was killed. There may be opportunistic people involved in these riots, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that a young man’s life was stolen from him. Libya, Syria, Egypt, and now Britain, people had better wake up from their snooze, because as history has taught us, it can happen anywhere.
?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwAI0jRoTvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ljYNgLnpxM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0P8TSP2YJU&feature=related
JBRAFTREE | Aug 10, 2011, 06:46 AM EDT
I hope I'm wrong, but I believe they're ahead of the fray, and we can expect to see more big cities doing this as a posturing on their own economics.
themurphia | Aug 10, 2011, 06:43 AM EDT
Most of these rioters are *kids* who should not be out on the streets at night...not people unable to get work...Their appearance and accessories suggest that they are not short of money...these are minors not miners or Jarrow marchers...Have you seen any banners calling for jobs or the right to work People are being burned out of their homes because some young hooligan wants designer footwear...!These people wouldn't know how to spell work let alone do it...they wouldn't take jobs because they would not fund their lifestyles/aspirations that's why they are in drug gangs and are killing each other in turf wars...their benefit entitlements are the main reason their older peers give for not going to/looking for work...antoman:Like 'work' I think 'book' is a four letter word to these people...they probably can't read because they are unteachable and spend most of their time excluded from school because they don't like authority and teachers...!A man is describing how he tried to resucitate his beloved son...one of the 3 people were killed on the streets by these animals last night...
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 11:35 PM EDT
There are no jobs. That's why so many people who are currently unemployed in England (and the Unites States). That's why rgray222, the commentator below, is a bit of a clueless halfwit. Social programs don't bankrupt nations, giving tax giveaways to the rich who horde their wealth and export it overseas has much more of an impact on the economy than a paltry social welfare payment.
rgray222 | Aug 09, 2011, 10:13 PM EDT
These people have been told for generations that the state will take care of you, education, health care etc etc. This socialistic stance cannot sustain itself and the time to pay the piper is now. They are taking out their anger on shop owners who they perceive to be rich (how foolish). No welfare state can sustain itself forever, eventually you run out of taxpayer money and then you have anarchy!
This is precisely what is happening. Get rid of all the heavy social programs, force people to work and get on with life.
seanomelbourne | Aug 09, 2011, 07:04 PM EDT
You've got it right Hollabackgurl.The english under class is a festering wound thats spreading.The English class ridden socety have maintained the status quo by dishing out crumbs to keep the working class at beigh.The English like the upper classes in the U.S. and other countries only need the under classes in times of war and they are then discarded to the scrap heap of poverty.Times are changing they want their fair share of the countries wealth.If the west is not careful we may witness a europe of riots and mayhem.
Sparklet | Aug 09, 2011, 04:29 PM EDT
Rebelforce, I think that's down to a different era/different Government. I'd not condone the use of rubber/plastic bullets, but the victims don't matter these days. Quite a few people in the UK are calling for tough measures, including bringing in the army. Most of which are probably poking their noses in elsewhere in the world.
themurphia | Aug 09, 2011, 03:58 PM EDT
The real poor in the UK other than the groups already mentioned are the one's caught in the poverty trap...the elderly who have saved and therefore do not qualify for benefits dying of hypothermia in the winter because they cannot afford the fuel bills...and those who work in low paid jobs and do not qualify for benefits...As well as the benefits available to the non productive so called families these kids get Education Maintenance Allowance to stay on at school... obviously money well spent...Not to mention enhanced benefits for junkies and free methadone which they then sell to get money for smack and when they've spent that they go shoplifting... clearly the public are being conned...Easy come easy go I suppose... Nobody NEEDS ridiculously over priced consumer goods designer clothes and trainers made by sweat shop child labour...If you want a definition of 'poor' that is probably a better benchmark...!yardleypa: the kids in the sweatshops would probably be grateful for a bowl of Trevelyans corn... the 'chav' rioters would probably prefer USA junk food imports...a bucket of KFC McDonalds and Coke...both varieties!...! Hmmm
Yardleypa | Aug 09, 2011, 03:56 PM EDT
Oh no its a flash mob from philadelphia
Rebelforce | Aug 09, 2011, 03:46 PM EDT
Notice how the British wouldn't dare use rubber or plastic bullets against rioters in Britain, but they have no problem using them against Irish people in Occupied Ireland. Some things never change.
LainieMcEl | Aug 09, 2011, 03:45 PM EDT
This reminds me of riots in California years ago when African Americans rioted because of racial prejudice, but in reality they destroyed and looted businesses that were owned by African Americans in their own neighborhoods. I don't blame them for being angry but that was no way to express it.
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 03:41 PM EDT
"The media is showing us hour after hour of Outraged Upstanding Citizen all saying the same thing because Upstanding Citizens tend to hit journalists less," British-Egyptian journalist Sarah Carr writes. "There is an echoing void when it comes to the other side of the story, a void that is being filled with image after horrible image and calls for looters to be flogged in public squares and theorising about the legitimate social political grievances that drove them to commit inexcusable acts. Both camps are as bad as each other."
Sparklet | Aug 09, 2011, 03:28 PM EDT
JamieLM - great post.
Yardleypa | Aug 09, 2011, 03:14 PM EDT
Give them some of Trevelyan corn.
peterson | Aug 09, 2011, 02:54 PM EDT
Rioting, burning cars,looting and assaulting people are committed by very, very stupid people and does not help their cause. They and their leaders should be placed in stockades for public ridicule.
themurphia | Aug 09, 2011, 02:37 PM EDT
For God sake look at the pictures...these are not 'poor' people...they are well fed well housed and well dressed...They have access to free housing education healthcare dentalcare welfare benefits childcare allowances libraries Internet...however I think youll find they own state of the art blackberrys and other techy toys...they have God knows what in the way of recreation/social facilties..the only 'poor people'in the UK are the homeless or those with chronic physical/mental health health problems...These kids a feral and out of control...where are their parents and why are they allowing them out on the streets at night... some of these kids are 11 yrs old...literally commiting daylight robbery whilst Plod looks on...This is pure opportunistic greed and the sooner the police and government get their act together the better...They are planning tonights activities as we speak why aren't the police intercepting/blocking their phone calls...?
antoman | Aug 09, 2011, 01:58 PM EDT
Did the rioters break into and loot any bookshops?No?I did'nt think so.
Suivness10 | Aug 09, 2011, 01:55 PM EDT
"There is nothing more dangerous than a man who has nothing to lose."
jamieLM | Aug 09, 2011, 01:39 PM EDT
We've seen this enough times in America. Often, the underclass destroys property in their own neighborhoods. Poor people who have worked hard to own their own small businesses in a poor neighborhood are often the victims of other people's envy. Poor people who have managed to get into housing and off the streets have their apts. burned down. What good does it do any of them to loot and destroy the businesses and housing in their own neighborhoods and cause poor people to become even poorer? Then there are those thugs who are just out to take advantage of the situation and don't care one bit about what caused the rioting in the first place. Finding solutions to solve injustices in society are complex and frustrating. Just throwing money at people doesn't work. I've seen that firsthand, more times than I can count. I do know the solution doesn't lie in destroying property, attacking people, and looting stores that others have worked hard to establish. It's a sign of anger and frustration and often doesn't lead to a better outcome for the poor. If it did, there wouldn't be any poor neighborhoods.
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 01:37 PM EDT
Conservatives are always helpless in the face of revolts by the poor. They squeeze and squeeze until every social protection is gone and the society looks likes Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome and then they wonder what the hell happened!
CCampbell | Aug 09, 2011, 01:34 PM EDT
Excellent Mr. O'Doherty. With levels of growing inequality in the US & UK growing since the 80s, these expressions of rage will continue. Austerity forced on the working and middle classes will have dire and predictable consequences. I'm in agreement with hollabackgurl.
citizen69 | Aug 09, 2011, 01:26 PM EDT
The reason behind it is kids wanting a bit of excitement and to look tough in front of their peers. Oh and the chance to grab a free TV of pack of beer. Yes they probably hate the police, kids that hang about in gangs usually do. Whatever it is, it is NOT political but of course that will soon be used as an excuse by the liberal media. Millions of pounds worth of damage to neighbourhoods and large numbers of jobs lost in the areas they are most needed. How is looting, mugging, & burning down local working class people's homes & cars a political statement in support of the plight of working class people!?
Sparklet | Aug 09, 2011, 11:48 AM EDT
There's no discipline in the UK. It's a society where the perpetrator has more rights than the victim. Teachers arent allowed to teach, policemen arent allowed to police, parents are even allowed to parent. And the country is full of have nots many of whom think they should have, and have no respect for people who do have. That isn't to say there isn't injustice and frustration, because there is, but society is diseased, and the disease is spreading. A lot of the rioters are just mindless vandals, not people with a cause.
FastEddy | Aug 09, 2011, 11:37 AM EDT
" ... they're highly organized and they're growing. ..." Yes, your basic dumbed down Brit welfare sluts have finally figured out how to mimic the twitter enabled arab spring. Time for another round of payments? Is that your Blackberry ringing?
AengusOg | Aug 09, 2011, 11:33 AM EDT
@hollabackgurl- Well named if not well said. Such unseemly language. Always attack the messenger and call an uncomfortable fact a lie.
Towngate | Aug 09, 2011, 11:13 AM EDT
Things happen because they are ALLOWED to happen. Now, who would want that? Can you think of any Body who has had their pay and overtime capped recently?
Liamkeyes | Aug 09, 2011, 10:49 AM EDT
I have spent quiet a lot of time in the UK. I can't understand it. The only subject that jumps out at me is the liberal social benefits that's approved to people arriving from the ex-Empire, whereas the ordinary british citizen has to work extra hard to pay for these programmes. The ordinary Brit wishes to follow his Cricket or Soccer team, go down to his local pub and be left alone.
AmericanCleric | Aug 09, 2011, 10:35 AM EDT
Initially, I'd like to say that I wish all of you well in these troubled times. Over on this side--the liberal media will gladly report the incendiary insanity that the youth indulge in...but routinely and blatantly leave out the reasons. We mirror your problems in so many ways it is frightening... it's just that our are just in the infant stages.
We can only hope.
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 10:23 AM EDT
You have no idea what you're talking about, AengusOg. No immigrants get welfare payments the moment they arrive in England. That was your first lie. Your second was that these rioters are all shiftless welfare saps. In fact they are a permanent underclass who prevented from making a decent living by a gamed system that gives much to some and nothing to others - just like the USA. They know they were born poor and they'll die that way and there's no amount of service economy jobs that will make a difference to the fact. Stuff your conservative talking points, you have no plan for them other than to blame them for being poor in the first place.
AengusOg | Aug 09, 2011, 10:06 AM EDT
The UK is drowning in the red ink of entitlements. If squatters occupy your property you have the devil of a time evicting them. When immigrants deplane, there are a plethora of social services, including immediate cash, that are available to them. This over-compensation for centuries of national criminality may bring a sardonic smile, but it should also remind us that if we continue down the road of social welfare programs that lack responsibility, we will reach a tipping point as well. Is it the non-contributors or contributors who are rioting?
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.seanomelbourne | Aug 10, 2011, 07:30 PM EDT
The rioters are from varied communities the are part of the class-ridden English society.
oaklongan | Aug 10, 2011, 06:00 PM EDT
antoman: Hats off...Your sobering thought.
themurphia | Aug 10, 2011, 11:05 AM EDT
Not 'working class'...working class people are decent hard working contributors to society these people are parasites...I am funding their life of leisure...it's about time the Govt demanded some quid pro quo for the welfare cheque...if you are fit and able to go out and riot and of working age then you should have to do some community work get some 'work' experience...in order to have something to show to a prospective employer...What employer is going to look at a candidate whose pedigree is a background of welfare 'entitlement'...? Employers want people with initiative and drive...If you want a supported lifestyle then try giving something back to Society...look at the News who are the people out cleaning the steets after the carnage of the last few days...?People go to work to pay bills feed their kids keep a roof over their heads and support their families...these people do not need to work because all that is provided for them...'In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act'...
jamieLM | Aug 10, 2011, 10:13 AM EDT
Thank you Sparklet. antoman - you were right. I saw pictures on NBC last night that showed a bookstore that was not looted. All of the other stores around it were. The remark was made that they guessed no one was interested in reading or owning any books.
themurphia | Aug 10, 2011, 08:40 AM EDT
Yep the police just indiscriminately shot him...!
AlainnCath | Aug 10, 2011, 08:29 AM EDT
Let’s not forget that the riots began because a 29-year old named Mark Duggan was killed. There may be opportunistic people involved in these riots, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that a young man’s life was stolen from him. Libya, Syria, Egypt, and now Britain, people had better wake up from their snooze, because as history has taught us, it can happen anywhere. Look up what happen to Kelly Thomas in Fullerton CA, and Oscar Grant, injustice is injustice and it angers us unimportant people.
AlainnCath | Aug 10, 2011, 08:09 AM EDT
Let’s not forget that the riots began because a 29-year old named Mark Duggan was killed. There may be opportunistic people involved in these riots, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that a young man’s life was stolen from him. Libya, Syria, Egypt, and now Britain, people had better wake up from their snooze, because as history has taught us, it can happen anywhere. ?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwAI0jRoTvY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ljYNgLnpxM&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0P8TSP2YJU&feature=related
JBRAFTREE | Aug 10, 2011, 06:46 AM EDT
I hope I'm wrong, but I believe they're ahead of the fray, and we can expect to see more big cities doing this as a posturing on their own economics.
themurphia | Aug 10, 2011, 06:43 AM EDT
Most of these rioters are *kids* who should not be out on the streets at night...not people unable to get work...Their appearance and accessories suggest that they are not short of money...these are minors not miners or Jarrow marchers...Have you seen any banners calling for jobs or the right to work People are being burned out of their homes because some young hooligan wants designer footwear...!These people wouldn't know how to spell work let alone do it...they wouldn't take jobs because they would not fund their lifestyles/aspirations that's why they are in drug gangs and are killing each other in turf wars...their benefit entitlements are the main reason their older peers give for not going to/looking for work...antoman:Like 'work' I think 'book' is a four letter word to these people...they probably can't read because they are unteachable and spend most of their time excluded from school because they don't like authority and teachers...!A man is describing how he tried to resucitate his beloved son...one of the 3 people were killed on the streets by these animals last night...
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 11:35 PM EDT
There are no jobs. That's why so many people who are currently unemployed in England (and the Unites States). That's why rgray222, the commentator below, is a bit of a clueless halfwit. Social programs don't bankrupt nations, giving tax giveaways to the rich who horde their wealth and export it overseas has much more of an impact on the economy than a paltry social welfare payment.
rgray222 | Aug 09, 2011, 10:13 PM EDT
These people have been told for generations that the state will take care of you, education, health care etc etc. This socialistic stance cannot sustain itself and the time to pay the piper is now. They are taking out their anger on shop owners who they perceive to be rich (how foolish). No welfare state can sustain itself forever, eventually you run out of taxpayer money and then you have anarchy! This is precisely what is happening. Get rid of all the heavy social programs, force people to work and get on with life.
seanomelbourne | Aug 09, 2011, 07:04 PM EDT
You've got it right Hollabackgurl.The english under class is a festering wound thats spreading.The English class ridden socety have maintained the status quo by dishing out crumbs to keep the working class at beigh.The English like the upper classes in the U.S. and other countries only need the under classes in times of war and they are then discarded to the scrap heap of poverty.Times are changing they want their fair share of the countries wealth.If the west is not careful we may witness a europe of riots and mayhem.
Sparklet | Aug 09, 2011, 04:29 PM EDT
Rebelforce, I think that's down to a different era/different Government. I'd not condone the use of rubber/plastic bullets, but the victims don't matter these days. Quite a few people in the UK are calling for tough measures, including bringing in the army. Most of which are probably poking their noses in elsewhere in the world.
themurphia | Aug 09, 2011, 03:58 PM EDT
The real poor in the UK other than the groups already mentioned are the one's caught in the poverty trap...the elderly who have saved and therefore do not qualify for benefits dying of hypothermia in the winter because they cannot afford the fuel bills...and those who work in low paid jobs and do not qualify for benefits...As well as the benefits available to the non productive so called families these kids get Education Maintenance Allowance to stay on at school... obviously money well spent...Not to mention enhanced benefits for junkies and free methadone which they then sell to get money for smack and when they've spent that they go shoplifting... clearly the public are being conned...Easy come easy go I suppose... Nobody NEEDS ridiculously over priced consumer goods designer clothes and trainers made by sweat shop child labour...If you want a definition of 'poor' that is probably a better benchmark...!yardleypa: the kids in the sweatshops would probably be grateful for a bowl of Trevelyans corn... the 'chav' rioters would probably prefer USA junk food imports...a bucket of KFC McDonalds and Coke...both varieties!...! Hmmm
Yardleypa | Aug 09, 2011, 03:56 PM EDT
Oh no its a flash mob from philadelphia
Rebelforce | Aug 09, 2011, 03:46 PM EDT
Notice how the British wouldn't dare use rubber or plastic bullets against rioters in Britain, but they have no problem using them against Irish people in Occupied Ireland. Some things never change.
LainieMcEl | Aug 09, 2011, 03:45 PM EDT
This reminds me of riots in California years ago when African Americans rioted because of racial prejudice, but in reality they destroyed and looted businesses that were owned by African Americans in their own neighborhoods. I don't blame them for being angry but that was no way to express it.
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 03:41 PM EDT
"The media is showing us hour after hour of Outraged Upstanding Citizen all saying the same thing because Upstanding Citizens tend to hit journalists less," British-Egyptian journalist Sarah Carr writes. "There is an echoing void when it comes to the other side of the story, a void that is being filled with image after horrible image and calls for looters to be flogged in public squares and theorising about the legitimate social political grievances that drove them to commit inexcusable acts. Both camps are as bad as each other."
Sparklet | Aug 09, 2011, 03:28 PM EDT
JamieLM - great post.
Yardleypa | Aug 09, 2011, 03:14 PM EDT
Give them some of Trevelyan corn.
peterson | Aug 09, 2011, 02:54 PM EDT
Rioting, burning cars,looting and assaulting people are committed by very, very stupid people and does not help their cause. They and their leaders should be placed in stockades for public ridicule.
themurphia | Aug 09, 2011, 02:37 PM EDT
For God sake look at the pictures...these are not 'poor' people...they are well fed well housed and well dressed...They have access to free housing education healthcare dentalcare welfare benefits childcare allowances libraries Internet...however I think youll find they own state of the art blackberrys and other techy toys...they have God knows what in the way of recreation/social facilties..the only 'poor people'in the UK are the homeless or those with chronic physical/mental health health problems...These kids a feral and out of control...where are their parents and why are they allowing them out on the streets at night... some of these kids are 11 yrs old...literally commiting daylight robbery whilst Plod looks on...This is pure opportunistic greed and the sooner the police and government get their act together the better...They are planning tonights activities as we speak why aren't the police intercepting/blocking their phone calls...?
antoman | Aug 09, 2011, 01:58 PM EDT
Did the rioters break into and loot any bookshops?No?I did'nt think so.
Suivness10 | Aug 09, 2011, 01:55 PM EDT
"There is nothing more dangerous than a man who has nothing to lose."
jamieLM | Aug 09, 2011, 01:39 PM EDT
We've seen this enough times in America. Often, the underclass destroys property in their own neighborhoods. Poor people who have worked hard to own their own small businesses in a poor neighborhood are often the victims of other people's envy. Poor people who have managed to get into housing and off the streets have their apts. burned down. What good does it do any of them to loot and destroy the businesses and housing in their own neighborhoods and cause poor people to become even poorer? Then there are those thugs who are just out to take advantage of the situation and don't care one bit about what caused the rioting in the first place. Finding solutions to solve injustices in society are complex and frustrating. Just throwing money at people doesn't work. I've seen that firsthand, more times than I can count. I do know the solution doesn't lie in destroying property, attacking people, and looting stores that others have worked hard to establish. It's a sign of anger and frustration and often doesn't lead to a better outcome for the poor. If it did, there wouldn't be any poor neighborhoods.
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 01:37 PM EDT
Conservatives are always helpless in the face of revolts by the poor. They squeeze and squeeze until every social protection is gone and the society looks likes Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome and then they wonder what the hell happened!
CCampbell | Aug 09, 2011, 01:34 PM EDT
Excellent Mr. O'Doherty. With levels of growing inequality in the US & UK growing since the 80s, these expressions of rage will continue. Austerity forced on the working and middle classes will have dire and predictable consequences. I'm in agreement with hollabackgurl.
citizen69 | Aug 09, 2011, 01:26 PM EDT
The reason behind it is kids wanting a bit of excitement and to look tough in front of their peers. Oh and the chance to grab a free TV of pack of beer. Yes they probably hate the police, kids that hang about in gangs usually do. Whatever it is, it is NOT political but of course that will soon be used as an excuse by the liberal media. Millions of pounds worth of damage to neighbourhoods and large numbers of jobs lost in the areas they are most needed. How is looting, mugging, & burning down local working class people's homes & cars a political statement in support of the plight of working class people!?
Sparklet | Aug 09, 2011, 11:48 AM EDT
There's no discipline in the UK. It's a society where the perpetrator has more rights than the victim. Teachers arent allowed to teach, policemen arent allowed to police, parents are even allowed to parent. And the country is full of have nots many of whom think they should have, and have no respect for people who do have. That isn't to say there isn't injustice and frustration, because there is, but society is diseased, and the disease is spreading. A lot of the rioters are just mindless vandals, not people with a cause.
FastEddy | Aug 09, 2011, 11:37 AM EDT
" ... they're highly organized and they're growing. ..." Yes, your basic dumbed down Brit welfare sluts have finally figured out how to mimic the twitter enabled arab spring. Time for another round of payments? Is that your Blackberry ringing?
AengusOg | Aug 09, 2011, 11:33 AM EDT
@hollabackgurl- Well named if not well said. Such unseemly language. Always attack the messenger and call an uncomfortable fact a lie.
Towngate | Aug 09, 2011, 11:13 AM EDT
Things happen because they are ALLOWED to happen. Now, who would want that? Can you think of any Body who has had their pay and overtime capped recently?
Liamkeyes | Aug 09, 2011, 10:49 AM EDT
I have spent quiet a lot of time in the UK. I can't understand it. The only subject that jumps out at me is the liberal social benefits that's approved to people arriving from the ex-Empire, whereas the ordinary british citizen has to work extra hard to pay for these programmes. The ordinary Brit wishes to follow his Cricket or Soccer team, go down to his local pub and be left alone.
AmericanCleric | Aug 09, 2011, 10:35 AM EDT
Initially, I'd like to say that I wish all of you well in these troubled times. Over on this side--the liberal media will gladly report the incendiary insanity that the youth indulge in...but routinely and blatantly leave out the reasons. We mirror your problems in so many ways it is frightening... it's just that our are just in the infant stages. We can only hope.
hollabackgurl | Aug 09, 2011, 10:23 AM EDT
You have no idea what you're talking about, AengusOg. No immigrants get welfare payments the moment they arrive in England. That was your first lie. Your second was that these rioters are all shiftless welfare saps. In fact they are a permanent underclass who prevented from making a decent living by a gamed system that gives much to some and nothing to others - just like the USA. They know they were born poor and they'll die that way and there's no amount of service economy jobs that will make a difference to the fact. Stuff your conservative talking points, you have no plan for them other than to blame them for being poor in the first place.
AengusOg | Aug 09, 2011, 10:06 AM EDT
The UK is drowning in the red ink of entitlements. If squatters occupy your property you have the devil of a time evicting them. When immigrants deplane, there are a plethora of social services, including immediate cash, that are available to them. This over-compensation for centuries of national criminality may bring a sardonic smile, but it should also remind us that if we continue down the road of social welfare programs that lack responsibility, we will reach a tipping point as well. Is it the non-contributors or contributors who are rioting?